The Power of Traditional Psychotherapy (and Psychiatry)

[Nahm]

1 hour ago, kag101 said:

I don't agree. The joy of expecting something is nowhere near as good as experiencing the joy of something good happening in the present moment.

I am going to give a very extreme example. Imagine a person who has the flu, and you say: "Oh, don't rush into the future. All you have is the eternal Now. No need to think about your symptoms. Just focus on this exact moment. You see? Your homeostasis is already here, in the Now. No need to go anywhere, no need to do anything."

Without imposing duality, there is just, Joy.    The flu example implies another duality & I agree with you, it doesn’t make sense.  

1 hour ago, kag101 said:

I'm a big fan of utilizing the right resources, the ones that have proven-record of getting good results.

Your “right” is only that. Psychiatry also has a proven record of not actually helping, and causing side effects and other ‘damages’. Marital counseling has a proven track record of putting the practitioner’s score keeping / reputation (keeping them married) ahead of the well being of the individuals.....is that opinion “right”?  “Using all resources available”....how do you know that there was nothing helpful in a resource you ruled out, without directly experiencing it? That seems to be required to sustain the belief an opinion, is more absolutely, “right”....the very ’thing‘ to be seen through, the suffering of the righteousness. Bombs are dropped on kids, literally, because it’s “the right thing to do” (one person’s opinion).

1 hour ago, kag101 said:

Bleh... I couldn't care less whether I am in the "now" or not, or whether I know that I am "always in the now" or not.

All I care is:

1) Am I feeling happy on a consistent basis?

2) Is my life is heading to the direction that I want?

I tried for many years to live 100% in the "present". I would try so hard that I would, paradoxically, completely get out of touch with it. Now that I have let go of this idea I feel like I am truly living in the here and now.

Sounds like you are at that point, “getting the joke”, already. It is wonderful to hear that you are happy on a consistent basis and that your life is headed in the direction that you want. 

 

[Matt23]

Nice!

Traditional methods may also work for some and not much for others, or even being with the "right" person could affect things... lots of variables

[Commodent]

On 19.2.2020 at 5:29 PM, kag101 said:

That's my response to you. What you did here was nothing but a projection.

Takes one to see one. I know that attitude.

You reject things you obviously have no experience with. At least so much is obvious.

These kinds of conversations are pointless. Bye.

[remember]

@Mikael89 this thread for example has so many good points - if you would maybe find a therapist in another city if yours is too small.

[kag101]

On 19/02/2020 at 2:51 PM, Nahm said:

Without imposing duality, there is just, Joy.

Without imposing duality, there is nothing. There is no Yin without Yang.

On 19/02/2020 at 2:51 PM, Nahm said:

Psychiatry also has a proven record of not actually helping, and causing side effects and other ‘damages’.

Proven record? I'd like for you to show me that. Or are you talking about online testimonials?

There are bad psychiatrists, and there are good psychiatrists. Like in any other profession.

On 19/02/2020 at 2:51 PM, Nahm said:

how do you know that there was nothing helpful in a resource you ruled out, without directly experiencing it?

Which resources are you referring? I honestly don't remember because people in this topic have mentioned dozens of them.

I have experimented with plenty of "alternative" (aka not proven) resources. I'd get better for a while, and then... BAM... I'd hit rock bottom once again.

On 19/02/2020 at 2:51 PM, Nahm said:

Sounds like you are at that point, “getting the joke”, already.

Sounds like you haven't figured out that you're being really condescending.

On 19/02/2020 at 2:51 PM, Nahm said:

It is wonderful to hear that you are happy on a consistent basis and that your life is headed in the direction that you want. 

Thank you

 

On 20/02/2020 at 2:31 AM, Matt23 said:

Traditional methods may also work for some and not much for others

They are the best chance someone have to get better. Sure, you might come across with a bad professional. Then, you have to keep searching.

On 20/02/2020 at 2:31 AM, Matt23 said:

or even being with the "right" person could affect things... lots of variables

Which variables?

 

On 20/02/2020 at 4:51 PM, Commodent said:

Takes one to see one. I know that attitude.

Are you implying that because I noticed that you were projecting something onto me; that means I am also projecting something onto you?

On 20/02/2020 at 4:51 PM, Commodent said:

You reject things you obviously have no experience with. At least so much is obvious.

What things am I rejecting?

On 20/02/2020 at 4:51 PM, Commodent said:

These kinds of conversations are pointless. Bye.

Why do you think that is so?

 

On 20/02/2020 at 6:42 PM, remember said:

 this thread for example has so many good points - if you would maybe find a therapist in another city if yours is too small.

Idk who the guy you quoted said, but yeah... psychiatry can certainly be a life-changing thing for those who really need it (like myself).

[Nahm]

44 minutes ago, kag101 said:

Sounds like you haven't figured out that you're being really condescending.

Huh?! How so?

[kag101]

On 3/2/2020 at 11:23 AM, Nahm said:

Huh?! How so?

By the way you're trying to "enlighten" me, as if you were in the "Now", and you know that I am steps behind you.

On 2/19/2020 at 2:51 PM, Nahm said:

Sounds like you are at that point, “getting the joke”, already.

 

On 1/3/2020 at 2:55 PM, Nahm said:

Clarity arises, that there’s no “point” - other than being present, enjoying this - the only opportunity that it is possible to enjoy this - right now.  

Eckhart Tolle does a lot of that. 

I find it very irritating, because it is as if he was in the pedestal of the "Now". He has entered the Ultimate Reality, and all the people who are listening to him are lost in the "egoic mind". So he says something to effect of:  

"There is no past or future, the only thing that exists is the (deep tone of voice) Now. You see? This moment. Not that what you're thinking, but the Eternal...... NOW." 

He basically tries to make people enter the "portal" of the present moment.

From my personal experience, the people who speak the most about being in the present are the ones who are the least in touch with it. 

[Nahm]

@kag101 Fair enough man. Sorry if I offended you. That was not my intention. I wish you well. 

[universe]

Its good to see psychology actually working.

From what I gathered its mostly there to get you back to work. Instead of really tackling the issue once and for all. But its not as black and white. There are degrees and it depends on how bad in shape the individual is and how much they resonate with the psychotherapist. I also know people who after they went to therapy had such good results that they changed career and became psychologists themselves to go on and heal others.

There are also many people who cant get a good psychotherapist because the process is either too complicated or the psychotherapist declines them.

Then there are other techniques like the sedona method that, from my experience, have a 100% success rate and are easily accessible.

 

The whole spiritual stuff of being in the now is exactly like others and yourself have wrote here. Instead of making you "feel happy on a consistent basis" and "move your life in a direction you want" its going to show you that there is no you to feel happy. And that what you call life is just an illusion. If you dont want to go that route and instead focus on self-actualizing thats understandable. I struggle to combine those two as well, not gonna lie.

[RendHeaven]

1 hour ago, kag101 said:

Eckhart Tolle does a lot of that. 

I find it very irritating, because it is as if he was in the pedestal of the "Now". He has entered the Ultimate Reality, and all the people who are listening to him are lost in the "egoic mind". So he says something to effect of:  

"There is no past or future, the only thing that exists is the (deep tone of voice) Now. You see? This moment. Not that what you're thinking, but the Eternal...... NOW." 

He basically tries to make people enter the "portal" of the present moment.

From my personal experience, the people who speak the most about being in the present are the ones who are the least in touch with it. 

He might be right, though.

Maybe one day it won't be so irritating... it's good to keep an open mind  

[kag101]

On 12/03/2020 at 9:48 PM, Nahm said:

@kag101 Fair enough man. Sorry if I offended you. That was not my intention. I wish you well. 

You didn't offend me. I just think that whole "Don't think about anything. Just be in the Now" pretty annoying. I just don't find it to be effective.

I mean, yes, reminding oneself to be in the present moment is a great thing. Most of us are lost in planning or thinking about the past. I meditate daily (focusing on the breath), so I am pretty aware of how the mind tends to wander off. But that is not the answer to all psychological problems.

And thanks, I wish you well as well.

 

On 12/03/2020 at 11:27 PM, universe said:

Its good to see psychology actually working.

True psychology works. Its practice and education is guided by research findings that are firmly grounded in the scientific method.

On 12/03/2020 at 11:27 PM, universe said:

From what I gathered its mostly there to get you back to work.

Get back to work? What do you mean by that? Literally working at a job?

On 12/03/2020 at 11:27 PM, universe said:

Instead of really tackling the issue once and for all.

Why do you think psychotherapy doesn't "tackle the issue once and for all"? To me, it is exactly what it does.

On 12/03/2020 at 11:27 PM, universe said:

But its not as black and white. There are degrees and it depends on how bad in shape the individual is and how much they resonate with the psychotherapist.

Resonating with the psychotherapist is very important, but that's not enough.

On 12/03/2020 at 11:27 PM, universe said:

There are also many people who cant get a good psychotherapist because the process is either too complicated

It's expensive, and it's also hard to find a good psychotherapist.

On 12/03/2020 at 11:27 PM, universe said:

Then there are other techniques like the sedona method that, from my experience, have a 100% success rate and are easily accessible.

Lol, this method has a 100% success rate "from your experience"? Sorry but that doesn't prove much of its effectiveness.

On 12/03/2020 at 11:27 PM, universe said:

Instead of making you "feel happy on a consistent basis" and "move your life in a direction you want" its going to show you that there is no you to feel happy. And that what you call life is just an illusion.

I certainly prefer the first option.

And, btw, how can you prove me that life is an illusion?

On 12/03/2020 at 11:27 PM, universe said:

If you dont want to go that route and instead focus on self-actualizing thats understandable.

I definitely don't want to go in the route of "spirituality". I was there for many years, and it only made me feel miserable. At one point in my life, I was meditating 4 hours a day. I was putting too much expectation on meditation - as if it were something that would magically solve all  problems.

Ever since I started psychological and psychiatric treatment, I have never been happier and more fulfilled in my life.

After more than a decade of suffering and getting disappointed by alternative methods, I feel like I am finally in the direction of truly actualizing my full potential. It's a fabulous feeling.

On 12/03/2020 at 11:27 PM, universe said:

I struggle to combine those two as well, not gonna lie.

Yeah... It's a paradox.

 

On 12/03/2020 at 11:42 PM, RendHeaven said:

He might be right, though.

Maybe one day it won't be so irritating... it's good to keep an open mind  

It's repetitive, and it makes the "present moment" look something out-of-this world. It's actually very simple.

I really think there's something fishy about Tolle. 

 

[Elisabeth]

@kag101 How are you doing half a year later? 

I keep recommending your post. There's at least one friend of mine who got asked for a referral to a psychiatrist because of it. Good work, man. I hope it's still working for you. 

[Happy Jay]

On 22.12.2019 at 8:40 PM, kag101 said:

"Psychotherapy is a sanctuary; it is a battleground; it is a place I have been psychotic, neurotic, elated, confused, and despairing beyond belief. But, always, it is where I have believed–or have learned to believe–that I might someday be able to contend with all of this." 

- Kay Redfield Jamison

Background 

I have suffered from depression, generalized anxiety disorder, and social anxiety since I was 12.

I have always avoided the traditional ways to healing (psychotherapy & psychiatry). I thought it wasn't effective. I had gone to a few of them, but none were actually good.

No psychotherapy > bad psychotherapy.

So instead, I tried all the unorthodox approaches : Neuroliguistic Programming, veganism, Yoga, Tai Chi, theater classes, hypnosis, family constellation, hardcore meditation, cold showers, Tapping, Ayahuasca ceremonies, etc. 

Some of those things work in the short-term. But sooner or later, I'd fall on my ass and be worse off. This would make me feel very frustrated because I felt it was working because of me. 

 

"I am done with unorthodox approaches. I want the traditional!" 

A year ago, I was going through a major depressive episode. I was waking up at 5 PM, would only stay in bed, watch random stuff on the internet, was heavily socially anxious. Sleeping and eating was the most exciting things in my day.

So, I decided to try a psychiatrist a friend recommended. To sum up, he was very blunt, arrogant, and incompetent. After six months of treatment, I had a hypo-maniac episode (which is a negative type of euphoria). This was caused by being prescribed the wrong medication. 

Then, last June, I found a psychiatrist online that had very good reviews.

And I also started going to a really good psychologist. She has tons of experience, and is very empathetic. She never once told me something like: "You're being lazy", "You're too sensitive", "You need to push yourself more." She does not tell me what I "need" to do. Instead, through dialogue, I come to the conclusion by myself. And because she doesn't scold me, I feel safe to open up to her. 

And btw, psychotherapy is not just a conversation. Far from it. 

 

Results

It's been about six months that I have been with this psychologist + psychiatrist, and here's what I have accomplished so far: 

1) My mood is finally stable. A year ago, I'd have a good day, and then 6 very depressed days. Obviously, I am not 100% everyday, but I can actually function, live life with its ups and downs. It is a great blessing to not feel debilitating and unreasoning emotions. I still feel bad sometimes, but now it has a cause, is manageable, and is not overwhelming.

2) My psychiatrist gave two medications that fit me very well. One of it gives me energy and will-power. And the other one helps me shut down my mind and go to sleep. Each medication cancels the side effects of the other one. 

3) My sexuality is much healthier. 

4) I have stopped smoking weed, drinking alcohol, and using any type of psychedelics. Although I didn't admit, I was pretty much addicted to those things. And in my case, nothing that alters my normal state of mind is good for me. 

5) I am proactively finding new things to do. Instead of being in bed all day or just mindlessly use the internet; I actually want to get out of the house. (I am not neurotic about always being outside doing stuff though).

6) I have started to take keyboard and Spanish classes. I practice yoga and soccer by myself daily (I don't have to force myself; it's organic). And I also walk my dog with a dog trainer twice a week. So my routine has more meaningful and exciting things. 

7) My relationships are much more healthy. Regarding friends, I can now set healthy boundaries more easily. Regarding dating, I am actually going out with people! (which was something unimaginable a few months ago). I am learning how to deal with jealousy, rejection, and so on. And finally regarding my family, it's all getting very harmonic. 

8) I am more laid-back. I used to be very tensed up and neurotic about stuff. Instead of thinking about existential, deep and shadowy stuff all day (but having no results), I now direct all of this to my weekly 1-hour of psychotherapy. This way in my day-to-day life; I feel lighter, less tensed and overly-profound, and more playful.  

9) I can trust that I will naturally do what's best for me. I am more in-the-moment. I don't hold very strong and inflexible decisions. Instead, I flow with life. 

> If I am being too stubborn, I identify that and let it go.

> If I am being lazy or passive, I negotiate with myself so that I can actually do what I want to do. 

9) I am losing weight effortlessly. Or as some self-help authors like to put it, "I am getting back to my natural body form". Because of the depression, I was eating copious amounts of food - which made me gain weight. But now I don't crave for food anymore; and I don't have to starve myself to lose weight nor eat stuff that has no flavor. Oh, and I am also sleeping less (from 10-12 hours daily to 7-9 hours). 

10) I am taking more care of my appearance and well-being. I use moisturizer; I use a type of shampoo that covers my white hair; I am shaving some parts of my body. It is not something "over the top". It's healthy. I am not abandoning my body; instead, I am taking care of it. 

Important: Boy oh boy, did I wish I could accomplish all of that through reading self-help books, watching videos, meditating the shit out of me, talking with a "spiritual" friend; or using psychedelics. I learned the hard way that I cannot depend on those things to be healthy psychologically - they are just a complement for high-quality face-to-face psychotherapy and psychiatry. 

 

 

If you liked the quote at the beginning of this topic, check this out:  https://www.beliefnet.com/columnists/beyondblue/2010/10/kay-redfield-jamison-on-psycho-1.html. 

 

Hi, is it psychoanalytic psychotherapy or something else?

[Happy Jay]

On 3.1.2020 at 9:45 PM, Dan502 said:

I had to reach a point where I really needed it before I seriously considered seeing a therapist but once I did, I actually enjoyed it and carried on long after "needing" to.

Being able to talk "honestly without being judged" was a unique and, I feel, potentially, a useful experience. I saw a psychodynamic therapist.

I see the quality of the dialogue in the sessions as a model for human interaction.

I'd find it hard to pin down the details or benefits with any degree of certainty although I could create a speculative list.

It cost an arm and a leg, so to speak; the UK health service tends to prefer CBT or pills to long-term talk therapy for patients with diagnosed conditions let alone those who feel like continuing the sessions without one.

I attended weekly for two years before reaching a point where I felt like I had run out of things to talk about.

Don't expect your friends and family, or really anyone else for that matter, to be supportive. Even some therapists don't believe long-term talk therapy is beneficial.

Hey , so you mean that psychoanalytic therapy has changed your personality ?

[kag101]

On 14/09/2020 at 9:06 AM, Elisabeth said:

How are you doing half a year later? 

I keep recommending your post. There's at least one friend of mine who got asked for a referral to a psychiatrist because of it. Good work, man. I hope it's still working for you. 

Wow, that’s a very nice thing to hear! Thanks! 

I’ve been doing well. I feel stable. And I feel I’m getting better at dealing with life’s challenges. In the state that I’m in right now I feel like life is neither easy nor hard - but just on the right Level. I am now able to have consistency, which is something I’ve always struggled with.

Depression is still tamed, fortunately. I hate that bitc*..., srly... 

I wish I had gone through a good psychiatrist before. It pisses me off how I arrogantly tried to heal my mental health by myself. There is a whole Scientific field of study Focused on those problemas, but I thought they were all wrong and “low consciousness”. Unfortunately psychiatry has a bad rep, because there are a lot of shitty professionals...

However, High-quality psychiatric treatment can be literally life-saving. Sometimes I’m glad that my mental illness was intense, because it made me dysfunctional and therefore forced me to seek help. If it were softer and Manageable, I would very likely never go to a psychiatrist office. It’s not an easy thing to do.

I wish I had written the title of this topic: “The power of psychiatric treatment”. Because what really made me go to the next level was not psychotherapy. If I were still feeling like an anxious zombie, therapy wouldnt be so effective. that said, it does help a lot. 

Thanks for the comment  

 

[kag101]

22 hours ago, Happy Jay said:

Hi, is it psychoanalytic psychotherapy or something else?

Yes. But she has a doctorate in psychology. There are a lot of “psychoanalysts” Out there who get a certificate without Making effort. 

17 hours ago, neutralempty said:

Mania is a common side effects of SSRIs.

My doc told me it is hard to tell whether it was mania or not. But anyway, I was heavily agitated. I felt superb in the beginning then eventually I started to get irritated af. Awful feeling...

11 hours ago, Happy Jay said:

Hey , so you mean that psychoanalytic therapy has changed your personality ?

No!

It helps deal with my neurosis, excessive worry and fear, etc. Basically, it helps strengthen my emotional intelligence 

what made me “change” (in reality go back to my natural self) was the medication 

Edited September 19, 2020 by kag101