Is thinking you are the opposite sex unconscious?

[hamedsf]

yes, a penis doesn't mean you should be inclined to the masculine energy, if your appearance is so close to the normal women so you could be a woman with a penis! that's great! 

but then again, we're not absolute male or female, the dominance of the energy is more important.  

[Forestluv]

9 hours ago, bejapuskas said:

@Serotoninluv  Does it start with denial of sex and then escalate into homosexuality/bisexuality/transgender

How can it start with a denial of sex? There would need to be a sexual orientation for a sexual orientation to be denied. . . Does this not start with a sexual orientation, followed by the denial of that sexual orientation? 

Let's consider the start. Homosexuality is nature and found in every animal species examined. Yet only one species shows homophobia (humans). In every other animal species, homosexuality is a natural phenomena that is accepted within the community. So what what does it take for humans to deny homosexuality? Imagine a teenage girl feels attraction toward other girls. Why would she reject that? It is not natural for her to deny that. It requires a construct that there is something "abnormal" or "wrong" with her attraction. Otherwise, why would it be rejected? If society celebrated homosexuality and saw homosexuals as gifted special people, do you think there would be desire to deny one's homosexuality? Of course not. . . 

Imagine a society in which intelligence is stigmatized as evil. If a person realizes they are intelligent, they must hide it or they will be stigmatized and ostracized. If they say something intelligent, they might be rejected by their family and friends - and perhaps beaten and imprisoned. Imagine a teenage girl realizing that she is intelligent and must hide it in fear of what may happen. She hides it from her family. She finds a few other intelligent people, yet they must hide together out in the forest to say intelligent things to each other. They wonder why they are intelligent and why they have been cursed by god. They become depressed and suicidal. . . In this situation, why would someone deny their intelligence? Is it internal or external?

[DrewNows]

3 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

Imagine a society in which intelligence is stigmatized as evil. If a person realizes they are intelligent, they must hide it or they will be stigmatized and ostracized. If they say something intelligent, they might be rejected by their family and friends - and perhaps beaten and imprisoned. Imagine a teenage girl realizing that she is intelligent and must hide it in fear of what may happen. She hides it from her family. She finds a few other intelligent people, yet they must hide together out in the forest to say intelligent things to each other. They wonder why they are intelligent and why they have been cursed by god. They become depressed and suicidal. . . In this situation, why would someone deny their intelligence? Is it internal or external

Dude this is our world now. We sacrifice intelligence for connection, attraction, and fitting in, etc 

[bejapuskas]

@Serotoninluv  Oh yeah I didnt realize what is prior to what... thanks for reminding me  

[Devi Shanti]

4 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

How can it start with a denial of sex? There would need to be a sexual orientation for a sexual orientation to be denied. . . Does this not start with a sexual orientation, followed by the denial of that sexual orientation? 

 

Sometimes this denying of sex comes from early childhood, when people  didn't even got in puberty, so, it's not necessarily linked to sexual activities. Some people really deny their sex to the point of taking off (or wanting to) their sexual organs. I don't think it's a question of sexual orientation only. What do you think about it?

Edited September 24, 2019 by Devi Shanti

[Moreira]

We are driven by hormones. If we live in a world with hundres of endocrine disruptors in our food, air and water and you are sensitive its easy to feel confused. Being conscious and unconscious is another thing.

If I were a woman and took testo steroids everyday and I listen to my feelings Id we aware that I feel like a man, even if I have the body of a woman.

[Nahm]

On 9/21/2019 at 3:11 PM, Cameron said:

 

...it’s far more important to be authentic. 

Right on.

I under this isn’t oneness. 

There’s no example of what isn’t oneness, cause, ...oneness. 

It’s all still identity based.

So what. Be where you are. Explore and self discover. No rush on anything, keep questing, inspecting, experiencing, & learning. However you are is precisely how you should be. The authentic self wears all faces, without judgement or condition. (Hence, “authentic”.) Trust your feelings, accept and enjoy every uniqueness of you. 

Is being transgender unconscious or delusional and just some identity distraction? 

No. You’re you....some will, some won’t, so what. Be you. (Notice this is the case, no matter which perspective, you’re you)

Or be what I feel is a more authentic self and keep practicing spirituality?

There’s no either or actuality here, because these are both about you, and you are one. Relax. Tune into sensation, into the body, feeling. The clarity of sensation is ever-present and always available and reliable.... you just dedicate a few minutes, relax, and listen. Also consider, writing out statements that come to mind about this down on paper, and I promise, if you are just willing enough to feel how you feel and be aware of it, the outcome will be great relief and clarity. You’ll notice wether the authentic self is in accord or discord, as you write each statement. It’s wonderful anyway you slice it, and “it” is you. Godspeed! 

 

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, Devi Shanti said:

Sometimes this denying of sex comes from early childhood, when people  didn't even got in puberty, so, it's not necessarily linked to sexual activities. Some people really deny their sex to the point of taking off (or wanting to) their sexual organs. I don't think it's a question of sexual orientation only. What do you think about it?

I'm not sure of the context you are using. . . I'm making a distinction to sex and gender. I'm referring to sex as genitalia and gender as sexual identity. In this context, people can "deny" their physical sex to affirm their gender. For example, a person with a penis may surgically remove her penis - which is affirming to her female gender. . . Yet, I'm not sure if this is what you are pointing to. 

[Forestluv]

2 hours ago, Moreira said:

We are driven by hormones. If we live in a world with hundres of endocrine disruptors in our food, air and water and you are sensitive its easy to feel confused. Being conscious and unconscious is another thing.

If I were a woman and took testo steroids everyday and I listen to my feelings Id we aware that I feel like a man, even if I have the body of a woman.

This description is limited to a physical construct. You don't know what it would feel like to be a biological woman that took testosterone. You can try to imagine what it would be like - yet this would be far from the experience of what it's actually like.  There is also an immaterial relative aspect. Relative subjective experiences like gender does not simply reduce down to physical molecules. . . Pain would be another example. We cannot predict a person's level of pain based on the composition of neurotransmitters and hormones. 

[Devi Shanti]

@Serotoninluv I meant, @bejapuskas questioned if the denying of sex (what I understand as the biological factor XX or XY) could be the begging of a conflict, what would scalate to sexuals behaviors. Then you started your response talking about sexual orientation.  I just brought this fact that children who deny their sex without even having any sexual maturity to have any sexual orientation. Do you understand now what I mean?

Imagine a little boy who doesn't even imagine there is something called "sex" and even less feels sexual attraction for anyone that does not accept being a boy, being convicted he is a girl. He is not denying a sexual orientation, he doesn't know anything about it. 

I gave this example to say that some people really deny their sex, their physiological condition, since childhood or not. I want to know what you think about this in level of conscious.

[Forestluv]

53 minutes ago, Devi Shanti said:

@Serotoninluv I meant, @bejapuskas questioned if the denying of sex (what I understand as the biological factor XX or XY) could be the begging of a conflict, what would scalate to sexuals behaviors. Then you started your response talking about sexual orientation.  I just brought this fact that children who deny their sex without even having any sexual maturity to have any sexual orientation. Do you understand now what I mean?

Imagine a little boy who doesn't even imagine there is something called "sex" and even less feels sexual attraction for anyone that does not accept being a boy, being convicted he is a girl. He is not denying a sexual orientation, he doesn't know anything about it. 

I gave this example to say that some people really deny their sex, their physiological condition, since childhood or not. I want to know what you think about this in level of conscious.

Thanks. I think I understand now. . . You give an example of a young child that is unaware of biological sex and does not accept being a boy and relates as a girl. The phrase "does not accept being a boy" assumes that the child is of male gender. I don't assume a child with a penis is male gender.  To me, the child is expressing their natural gender preference. . . Yet, I'm not sure how fluid gender preference is at a young age. I don't know exactly when gender identity forms. 

Questioning sex to me would be totally different. For example, if a young child unaware of sex questioned whether or not he had a penis. That would be very odd to me. It would be like a child questioning whether or not they had a nose. . . . To draw a sharper distinction. . . Imagine a young child with brown eyes that denied their eye color and identified as a girl. This sounds odd, because there is an obvious distinction between eye color and gender. I would also draw a distinction between sex and gender. Currently in most societies, that distinction is murky - yet it is getting clearer as society evolves. Yet it is clear to transgender individuals - they understand this through direct experience. 

[Devi Shanti]

@Serotoninluv thanks. I think I understand now how you think. All these concepts and denominations are confuse, though... From what I understand, sex is sex and it's determined by genetics, and genitalias are included in it because it's a visible expression of our genes. I don't think someone can accept one and deny other. Other different things can be gender and sexual orientation. Honestly, I am glad that to my person all this concepts are one same thing and I am in peace with this simplicity. I hope people in different situations can find peace inside too. My respect to all them human being.

[Forestluv]

@Devi Shanti  ? ? 

[Annonymous]

I have the same problem of feeling like I am a woman, for years I have tried taking different supplements along with working out to try and increase testosterone. I was abused as a child from 5 -13 years old, suffered from insomnia, and even malnutrition where I would go hungry at times in my mom's place. I now have my own place and food isn't an issue, I have many times thought of taking steroids. I have made a model that I call the "Triangle of Gender Dysphoria" Let me know what you think, this model is based off research along with my experience. This trans identity is an issue because for me to achieve enlightenment I must transcend this trans identity but how? Many times in the past my parents would take testosterone boosters from me saying I had enough testosterone already. I have had a civil war in my head, in my dreams I am a woman so maybe it's subconscious? Hopefully this helps Cameron, I still haven't found a solution either. Do you think steroids would help or am I going to need to work through this mentally?

[Annonymous]

Another Idea I have is maybe if a girl for example believes that men are aggressive along with finding herself aggressive plus some traits that they may believe are masculine thinking that men only like cars, if the girl likes cars as well, etc she may feel related to a boy. Lastly subconsciously they may believe that to have those traits of liking cars, etc that those belong to a certain body type.  I don't know lol what do you think, there's hundreds of different ideas.

@Annonymous

[Devi Shanti]

@Annonymous @Annonymous 

I am following you... I also think like this, that people make a determined relation of behavior to sex, and if they don't identify with certain behavior that for him/her is an attribute of certain sex, then he/she feels like does not belong to that group (sex or gender). 

But I didn't understand about you... You were born a boy or a girl?

[bejapuskas]

When I was a kid, we had a girl in our nursery school, she was 5 years old, and she was denying her sex. That was back in 2007 probably, before it was cool even. I don't understand where did that denial come from, I am just throwing out examples.

[remember]

3 hours ago, bejapuskas said:

When I was a kid, we had a girl in our nursery school, she was 5 years old, and she was denying her sex. That was back in 2007 probably, before it was cool even. I don't understand where did that denial come from, I am just throwing out examples.

doesn`t mean anything, a five year old is still a child, children are more asexual than grown ups, i didn`t even realize there was a difference until i went to school. could be that she just didn`t want to be judged upon that, because she was in denial of the difference, or wanted to be more like her dad if denial of sex means she was more boyish. of course i knew i was a girl and i supposed the way i felt was how girls feel, i knew i was more like my mom than like my dad, but i liked to play the male part in a story the same as playing the girls part if there where no boys around, (what was mostly the case as they often didn`t like roll plays) until i realized that the girlish girls where more popular and that somehow to be loved more i would have to discover what a girl could be like without giving up on myself, because i liked male attention. so i started to develope my female side more in being attentional to what femininity was to me. dressing up was a part of it some times more sometimes less. identification is something that grows over time, by listening to oneself.

Edited September 25, 2019 by remember

[remember]

@Annonymous did you ever try to live your femininity? transcending trans identity would mean you would need to either decide upon one side or the other or accept it as who you really are a transcending transgender. it seems like you feel uncomfortable with it. why not try to feel comfortable with it, what holds you back to find out? would it be bad to live for example meterosexuality or would it be bad to let the feeling of being a female come out and maybe even dress as one? maybe only from time to time? what are your fears? how would you be like if you where just yourself? whom are you taking the testosterone for? are you doing it to protect your femininity? vulnerability can also be protected by allowing yourself to be vulnerable and finding support in people who accept you the way you are.

i don`t think there is a timeframe to find out about yourself. just maybe start the days with the feeling of being neutral, like a child and then see where it carries you.

Edited September 25, 2019 by remember

[Annonymous]

I am a 19 age Male @Devi Shanti