Maya_0

Total liberation?

91 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

This question may not be appropriate for Leo's forum, since Leo seems to be gung-ho on self actualization and remaining inside the dream. I haven't heard anything from him on how to attain total liberation. Total liberation was really the goal of Enlightenment traditions throughout history.

By total liberation I mean, consciousness stops creating worlds and taking identification with finite forms (e.g. bodies). 

We can see that awakening leads to liberation in this life, as the mind has seen its insubstantial nature, and the real identity is rightfully understood to be Awareness/Consciousness. 

But there doesn't seem to be a definite answer to what happens after this life because no one has returned with knowledge of that. So we only have beliefs and speculation.

Edited by Maya_0

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Total liberation is total not-knowing. There is no one left to claim liberation. No one to improve, nothing to be done. Total liberation is the end of enlightenment.

The mind can't grasp what it is.

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12 minutes ago, Maya_0 said:

But there doesn't seem to be a definite answer to what happens after this life because no one has returned with knowledge of that. So we only have beliefs and speculation.

Be careful! That is merely your assumption. Many people have died and returned.

You can't understand the answer from your current state of consciousness. You must awaken first.


"Be melting snow. Wash yourself of yourself." -- Rumi

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Posted (edited)

My question is, do you really want total liberation? It seems to indicate total oneness, total non duality. I myself enjoy experience a lot, and I don't know if I would be able to give it up. There is so much beauty in experience. Of course I can not know what the total liberation state might be like, but I've had a taste of some, and while it was liberating there where still a longing and a thirst for experience. This could be my ego though, how can I know. 

Edited by traveler

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14 minutes ago, Maya_0 said:

By total liberation I mean, consciousness stops creating worlds and taking identification with finite forms (e.g. bodies)

I have been in that place. Form does not have to stop being created for total liberation. Form is perfect however it is.

How can you be liberated if you need form to stop?


"Be melting snow. Wash yourself of yourself." -- Rumi

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5 minutes ago, traveler said:

It seems to indicate total oneness, total non duality. I myself enjoy experience a lot, and I don't know if I would be able to give it up.

You don't have to give up experience to be liberated.

Experience is nirvana, is infinity. You just need to be more conscious of what experience really is.

Liberation is NOW, NOW, NOW! Find it in the NOW or you won't ever find it.


"Be melting snow. Wash yourself of yourself." -- Rumi

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2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You don't have to give up experience to be liberated.

Experience is nirvana, is infinity.

Well that's good news

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25 minutes ago, Maya_0 said:

This question may not be appropriate for Leo's forum, since Leo seems to be gung-ho on self actualization and remaining inside the dream.

That’s from the relative perspective based on you being the idea of you, and another being your idea of another. Both ideas are actually ideas. 

I haven't heard anything from him on how to attain total liberation. Total liberation was really the goal of Enlightenment traditions throughout history.

Enlightenment as a goal is a also an actual idea. 

By total liberation I mean, consciousness stops creating worlds and taking identification with finite forms (e.g. bodies). 

That is already the actuality. When you dream at night, at what point do you actually know you dreamt? When you wake up. So how do you knowing you’re not dreaming right now?  How old were you when you woke up?

We can see that awakening leads to liberation in this life, as the mind has seen its insubstantial nature, and the real identity is rightfully understood to be Awareness/Consciousness. 

Who is the understander?

But there doesn't seem to be a definite answer to what happens after this life because no one has returned with knowledge of that. So we only have beliefs and speculation.

See the actuality of life, and you see the actuality of death.

 


  Nonduality & Meditations         

Empty your head, fulfill your heart       

 

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Let's see..in finite form one can discover they are Infinity.

One can be his Egos perspective.

One can shift to God's perspecitve.

One can collapse into the formless (dissolution of the ego)

Is there anything left to liberation not covered here?


We must not cease from exploration and at the end of all our exploring will be to arrive at the place where we began and to know the place for the first time.       --T.S Eliot

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@tecladocasio doesn't that depend on perspective ? :)

 


We must not cease from exploration and at the end of all our exploring will be to arrive at the place where we began and to know the place for the first time.       --T.S Eliot

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5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I have been in that place. Form does not have to stop being created for total liberation. Form is perfect however it is.

How can you be liberated if you need form to stop?

I agree. Liberation does not mean form has to cease. It's the identification with form that causes the bondage. 

Consciousness takes the form of mind and the mind latches onto form and becomes identified as a body.  

The default state of humanity is bondage unless we take steps to awaken. 

But what good is awakening if after this life consciousness takes identity again as as another body/form? You're right back in bondage again. 

 

 

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Maya_0 said:

But what good is awakening if after this life consciousness takes identity again as as another body/form? You're right back in bondage again. 

Your mistake is thinking of life as bondage. It only is if you think of it as such.

Imagine a kid is sitting there enjoying playing his video game and you come up and tell him, "But what's the point of all this dying and suffering?! Let's turn it off this bondage."

The problem is not with the kid, but with you. Bondage is a way of looking at the world, not a fact of the world.

It can be exciting to know that you will get to live many different lives, experiencing the world in many different ways.

One day you will be born on Mars. That will be a cool life. One day you will get to be the Pharoh of Egypt. That will be cool. One day you will get to be a bald eagle soaring through the sky. That will be cool. Etc.

It's all cool from God's POV. Even the "bad" stuff. The key is to adopt God's POV.


"Be melting snow. Wash yourself of yourself." -- Rumi

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Posted (edited)

19 minutes ago, Nahm said:

That is already the actuality. When you dream at night, at what point do you actually know you dreamt? When you wake up. So how do you knowing you’re not dreaming right now?  How old were you when you woke up?

So I can wake up at 2 levels: level 1 is from dreaming while sleeping. Level 2 is from this "reality" which I seem to be awake in.

Are you sure you can't wake up from level 3 (post enlightenment) too? Since you can wake up at 2 levels.. why would it stop at 2 levels?

Edited by Mikael89

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2 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

Are you sure you can't wake up from level 3 too (post enlightenment)? Since you can wake up at 2 levels.. why would it stop at 2 levels?

Absolute Infinity.

Nothing beyond it. Since it is ALL.


"Be melting snow. Wash yourself of yourself." -- Rumi

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@Maya_0 Awakening is becoming conscious that you literally will it into being.  It goes from pure potential to a particular form when you will it.  If everyone was awake would there be even a notion of bondage anymore?


We must not cease from exploration and at the end of all our exploring will be to arrive at the place where we began and to know the place for the first time.       --T.S Eliot

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Total liberation and control of the Reptilian Brain, yeah, i said it. 


... 7 rabbits will live forever.                                                                                                                                                                                                  

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

So I can wake up at 2 levels: level 1 is from dreaming while sleeping. Level 2 is from this "reality" which I seem to be awake in.

No. The first is an assumption / belief, you don’t actually sleep. The second is absolute, and reveals the duality of ‘asleep & awake’.

Are you sure you can't wake up from level 3 too? Since you can wake up at 2 levels.. why would it stop at 2 levels?

Because there are no levels, hence the phrase “paper thin”, or Cosmic Joke. Reality is so perfectly efficient, It is void of efficiency. It is it. Would you have any need to forget something you already forgot? Would that be possible even? What if you hide forgetting in forgetting you forgot?

When you’re awake, there is no such thing as awake anymore. It was an apparent duality, and as such, there was never actually the duality. Only Leo DiCaprio can pull off multilevel awakening.    

 

 


  Nonduality & Meditations         

Empty your head, fulfill your heart       

 

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