Shaun

If everything else is an illusion, why does Leo make videos?

102 posts in this topic

I have been feeling better recently so I revisited the what is god video and Leo said it himself that he had an insight and a freakout that his parents and everything else basically don't exist and that he created the whole illusion, which I, writing this post am a part of. He even checked with an enlightened friend to confirm. Why then does he continue to make videos for a non existent audience?

Could it be a paradox that he is the only creator yet you, I and everyone else is also?

Is it right to say that the world and all in it do not actually exist as matter but it's just all consciousness like what Rupert Spira says?

What about the zen master Thich Nhat Hanh, he never talks about himself being god but everything interbeing. The lotus can not be without the mud and so on.

Edited by Shaun

“Words are like Leaves; And where they most abound, Much Fruit of Sense beneath is rarely found.”

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The main reasons are:

  • He loves what he does
  • Even if it is true, the vast majority of people firmly believe in duality/separation and thus suffer (and thus needs to realize the truth)

God is love

Whoever lives in love lives in God

And God in them

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That was a pretty good answer. I hope to have a discussion with everyone at length here about it as the whole thing has been causing me a lot of stress.

The main thing that really upsets me is the possibility that other people are not real. They are not having any conscious experience of their own. If that is true, then basically that is like finding out that my entire family has been murdered right now because they are basically dead. Rupert and other teachers say that consciousness takes the form of all things including our "finite minds". This is different from what Leo said which sounds pretty much to me like solipsism where nothing else actually exists.

Could it be that we are all co creating this same reality from consciousness?


“Words are like Leaves; And where they most abound, Much Fruit of Sense beneath is rarely found.”

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6 minutes ago, Shin said:

The main reasons are:

  • He loves what he does
  • Even if it is true, the vast majority of people firmly believe in duality/separation and thus suffer (and thus needs to realize the truth)

But therein lies the problem. Those who believe in separation don't exist. No need to do any convincing. The enlightened people don't exist either so I can't understand why he even continues his life. There is no point in being kind, loving and compassionate if there is nobody to be kind to. There is no point whatsoever in doing anything because nobody else is there to experience life with me. If what he is saying is really true then that is the most tragic, terrifying and worrying truth there is.

Edited by Shaun

“Words are like Leaves; And where they most abound, Much Fruit of Sense beneath is rarely found.”

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The thing is,

For them, they still exist,

Hence the suffering, and hence the compassion.


God is love

Whoever lives in love lives in God

And God in them

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1 minute ago, Shaun said:

The main thing that really upsets me is the possibility that other people are not real. They are not having any conscious experience of their own.

I think this is a very common thought/worry.  We all want our love ones to actually experience the love we give them.  Unfortunately I just dont see a way of varifying that.  I think there are intellectual arguements such as, "people have been able to explain how my experience would change in different ways by drugs and emotions before I knew it myself from my own direct experience".  But of course, it could be all part of the illusion and maybe you dont actually exist.  I dont think you'll ever get certainty on this, even though it really seems like there are other people with their own experience, in a relative sense.  Hopefully you'll get more and more comfortable with lack of certainty, because there is very little certainty to be had in the world


Comprehensive list of techniques: https://sites.google.com/site/psychospiritualtools/Home/meditation-practices

I appreciate criticism!  Be as critical/nitpicky as you like and don't hold your blows

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You think about this from an egotic point of view.

With full realization you realize you are everything, too.

 

You would literally see yourself everywhere,

What do you think you would do if that was true for you ?

Nothing ?


God is love

Whoever lives in love lives in God

And God in them

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34 minutes ago, Shin said:

The thing is,

For them, they still exist,

Hence the suffering, and hence the compassion.

So from an enlightened perspective, the other people cease to exist or are no longer experienced as apparently separate people? Does that mean that upon enlightenment they cease to exist from my perspective yet still exist from their perspective at the same time? Reality being a strange loop and all that.


“Words are like Leaves; And where they most abound, Much Fruit of Sense beneath is rarely found.”

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34 minutes ago, Shin said:

You think about this from an egotic point of view.

With full realization you realize you are everything, too.

 

You would literally see yourself everywhere,

What do you think you would do if that was true for you ?

Nothing ?

I know, Leo's videos are addressing egos.

 

If I saw myself everwhere, that would be kind of interesting but if I literally created it all and everything and everyone else is a total illusion or cardboard cutouts as Rupert Spira said, that would send me into a state of unfathomable terror and total insanity. A loneliness from which suicide would not be an escape.


“Words are like Leaves; And where they most abound, Much Fruit of Sense beneath is rarely found.”

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It's funny watching everyone rationalize.  You're starting to rationalize your rationalizations haha.  You spin an elaborate web to justify spinning that first web.  It's like telling a key lie that you can't retract; you gotta keep lying and lying whether you want to or not and it just gets worse and worse, you keep digging yourself deeper and deeper into a hole of your own digging until you're way down there where the air is starting to get thin.  Then smart people realize, man, maybe I should stop digging!  Lemme get a ladder and get the hell outta here!  But see, you don't because you don't wanna give up that initial belief that you're clinging so hard to.  And the Mind just goes nuts trying to hold all of this together and make it consistent with other thoughts, concepts, beliefs, talk that the world throws at you -- thus, you're always playing defense and there's never gonna be an end to it.  That's why you need to transcend the Mind -- hopefully one day that will happen for you.

Edited by Joseph Maynor

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2 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

It's funny watching everyone rationalize.  You're starting to rationalize your rationalizations haha.

I just can't see how living alone in an illusion of my own making can bring any form of happiness. I guess this ego must die and then I will be OK with everyone else around me not experiencing anything I do for them. I now feel like I am asking my own simulation for answers. How absurd.


“Words are like Leaves; And where they most abound, Much Fruit of Sense beneath is rarely found.”

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2 minutes ago, ajasatya said:

@Shaun because everything is an illusion and everything is real.

I've had that thought a few times and I am basically living my life in a sort of back and forwards state, one moment I am living life normally and getting on with it, the next I am freaking out a bit about everyone possibly not existing. I am probably just confused as different teachers are saying different things, almost like in religion.


“Words are like Leaves; And where they most abound, Much Fruit of Sense beneath is rarely found.”

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Just now, Shaun said:

I am probably just confused as different teachers are saying different things, almost like in religion

then quit teachers.

beliefs are helpless. do the entire work on your own or you won't ever reach liberation.


unborn Truth

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We are all connected with each other, but that doesn't necessarily mean that I am an illusion which only appears in your mind. 


Life is what happens to you while you’re busy making other plans.

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1 hour ago, Shaun said:

I've had that thought a few times and I am basically living my life in a sort of back and forwards state, one moment I am living life normally and getting on with it, the next I am freaking out a bit about everyone possibly not existing. I am probably just confused as different teachers are saying different things, almost like in religion.

That's all projections and IDEAS.

You don't actually know what life would be if you would know  the truth.
To know that you would need to be conscious of the truth !

How do you know what loneliness is, when there is only you ?
Would that make even sense to think or feel lonely, if there never was something else than you ?

See, you can't answer this question, the best you can say honestly is "I don't know".

Why ?

Because you're not living it, it's not actual for you, it's not your experience.
And everything that is not your current experience is an idea in your head, a fantasy.

Edited by Shin

God is love

Whoever lives in love lives in God

And God in them

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And you can’t beat a rationalization with another rationalization.  It’s like two young boys sparring at each other swinging their invisible swords. 

Edited by Joseph Maynor

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2 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

And you can’t beat a rationalization with another rationalization.  It’s like two young boys sparring at each other swinging their invisible swords.

Stop being a spiritual smartass who thinks nothing can be said.

At that point, why even coming to a forum if it's to say that nothing can be said about anything ?

Pride ? Being looked as a spiritual person ? Something else ?


God is love

Whoever lives in love lives in God

And God in them

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8 minutes ago, Shin said:

Stop being a spiritual smartass who thinks nothing can be said.

At that point, why even coming to a forum if it's to say that nothing can be said about anything ?

Pride ? Being looked as a spiritual person ? Something else ?

Look at how your Ego got triggered.  I’m impressed!  Stop telling me what to do.  You’re not yet ready to hear what I have to say on here — others are though and they appreciate my voice.

Edited by Joseph Maynor

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