OmniYoga

Vision vs Surrender to Life

24 posts in this topic

so here I am, listening to Leo talking about creating big powerful  vision
and in the same I'm having in back of the head contradicting idea about surreding to the life stream river,
becasue we are all heading to the same destination anyway,
why not go with the flow, and instead paddle againts the stream,
becasue pursuit any kind of vision will create massive resistance - that's pretty obvious
there is beatiful analogy about this in Levels of energy - F. Dodson,

on the other hand vision gives life meaning

what are enlightenment people your thoughts  about it?xD

Edited by OmniYoga

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I like the flow idea better. Anyways life is not going to happen the way you planned.

It's basicly inteligence vs intelect.

Living with your intelect is too dry, too much mental. People have their whole next 10-20years planned for themselfs. They know what will they do and everything. Their diary is already filled ahead of them. 

On the other hand, living from inteligence is just life expressing itself, unfolding itself in it's natural course. Being spontanious and flow and be in harmony with life is the true way of living that everybody should aim for.

 

"Fully predictable future is already the past" -Alan Watts.

Edited by Salvijus

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"There is a tide in the affairs of men, which taken at the flood, leads on to fortune. Omitted, all the voyage of their life is bound in shallows and in miseries. On such a full sea are we now afloat." - Shakespeare

Go with the tide, then act on the flood. There is a moment of action required, but too much mindless swimming will lead to fighting the current.

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@Salvijus @OmniYoga Be careful , because intellect is part of life , part of being human . There is no problem in planning , thinking ahead , have some big visions , but is not ''you'' as you think of yourself that is doing all this . For what purpose do you have a vision ? Why you have it ? And why you feel the need to do it ? 

That's how I view it , I'm not enlightened so I still get very confused sometimes with all this hahah . 

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Actually both ways, being in flow state and being in planning state is stupid.

Do whatever you want, whatever feels right in the moment. That's my phylosophy :D

No techneques no nothing only awareness

Edited by Salvijus

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1 hour ago, tecladocasio said:

I'm not enlightened so I still get very confused sometimes with all this hahah . 

When you're resting in being, are there any intellectual points of confusion?

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14 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

being in flow state and being in planning state is stupid

why planning is stupid ? It is useful in so many ways hhaha . Your city cannot run itself without a huge amount of planning , don't you agree ?

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@Joseph Maynor As for subjects related to what's real and what's imaginary I think it does not . But they still don't know everything about the world , so maybe there is confusion about mathematics hahah , but I think that's not the best term to call it . Maybe is just a not-knowing , not confusion .

 

Just to be clear , I'm just saying what I've heard from a enlightened being , that's not my experience , but makes sense .

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23 minutes ago, tecladocasio said:

why planning is stupid ? It is useful in so many ways hhaha . Your city cannot run itself without a huge amount of planning , don't you agree ?

I agree. :D

But when people say you have to plan your goals plan your future. It's like a religion to them. They have things planned for the next lifetime already. 

And people who say be in flow state are also nuts if it's just theory.

In that context i sayed both are dumb. Just drop all your techneques. Just live a conscious life. If you need to plan things you plan. Otherwise just follow the natural course of life.

Which i feel people are really lacking these days. They don't know how to be and live in correspondence with life. 

That's why these teachings like "flow state" are valuable. 

Actually flowing with life is a natural quality of a sage or someone who's very high conscious. :)

 

 

 

Edited by Salvijus

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I think the important thing is to stay in alignment with your emotions/desires. Planning can be good and if can be bad...depends how and why it is done. A free mind will have some amazing visions/ideas that are often spontaneous without feeling/being forced 

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@Salvijus

7 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

When people say you have to plan your goals plan your future. It's like a religion to them. They have things planned for the next lifetime already. 

It's planning out of fear of the future , I agree .

 

8 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

And people who say be in flow state are also nuts if it's just theory.

Worst thing is people that don't stop talking about this ''flow state'' hahaha 

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17 minutes ago, tecladocasio said:

@Salvijus

It's planning out of fear of the future , I agree .

 

Worst thing is people that don't stop talking about this ''flow state'' hahaha 

Those people who use some kind of techneques like be a planner or be in flow state to live life are basicly living with their intelect, they live with their mind. They live with somekind of rules that they created.

That's why I say inteligence vs intelect.

Living with inteligence is when you have no techneques, no rules at all. Only by using sheer wisdom, awareness and life's inteligence one navigates his life. That's what sounds the best way to live life.

P.S. Sorry had to express this even if it wasn't necessary. I finnaly was able to articulate my thoughts in a satisfying manner :D

Edited by Salvijus

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15 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

P.S. Sorry had to express this even if it wasn't necessary. I finnaly was able to articulate my thoughts in a satisfying manner :D

No problem , man ! Thank you hahaha

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@OmniYoga  I find imagery to be helpful to integrate what is now to the timeline. I imagine a horizontal line as the timeline. This includes the story of "me", all my memories and personal experiences. It also includes everything in the future - hopes, goals, ambitions, personal development, planning etc. The Now is a vertical line that bisects the horizontal timeline. Most mind-bodies are conditioned to live within the horizontal timeline. Perhaps 99% of their waking life is within the timeline. Most people get a few glimpses of Now, yet they are often very brief and usually go unnoticed. Yet, everyone has had a conscious glimpse of Now. Perhaps being in awe of a starlit sky, being in "the zone" while playing a sport or musical instrument, melting away with a lover during sex. All of these transient conscious states involve a melting away of the timeline - a melting away of "me" - my story, my opinions, my goals etc. These glimpses can be wonderful, yet because we are so conditioned to live within the timeline - experiencing now is often uncomfortable and boring. How often have you sat and admired an insect pollinating a flower in the moment - to the point you are fully immersed in the beauty and awe of what is happening Now? For most people, not very often. This would be "time to kill" and they would probably be thinking about the past or worrying about the future or getting distracted on their cell phone. So most humans have very little direct experience on the vertical axis of what is Now - yet they assume there is much too it. However, it goes deep. That vertical line goes way up and way down. There is so much to explore on the vertical Now axis - as much as on the horizontal timeline axis.

When seekers start catching on to the vertical axis of Now, I often see them question, and even reject, the horizontal timeline axis. They say the horizontal timeline is an illusion and only the vertical Now is real. I think this can be very helpful at times to focus on exploring this new awareness of Now. Yet, pushing away the timeline or trying to act like it doesn't exist causes stress and turmoil along the horizontal timeline - in particular it is really unhealthy for the psychological self. For example, one may read an Eckhart Tolle quote about only Now exists. To a novice mind-body, it is tempting to think "Well, if only Now exists it doesn't matter what I do. I can sit around eating junkfood and playing video games all day". Yet this would be an immature reaction to a much deeper insight.

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@OmniYoga

Surrendering is key.

You can't navigate through the river when you're swimming against the stream.

Act from your place in life, be present, be realistic.

Don't expect a doctor to end poverty. A doctor's vision is to cure people.

The point is, you don't create your vision in the first place, life is infinitely complicated, your vision chooses you. You just have to absorb and accept and embrace.

Be well.

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54 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

@OmniYoga

Surrendering is key.

You can't navigate through the river when you're swimming against the stream.

Act from your place in life, be present, be realistic.

Don't expect a doctor to end poverty. A doctor's vision is to cure people.

The point is, you don't create your vision in the first place, life is infinitely complicated, your vision chooses you. You just have to absorb and accept and embrace.

Be well.

Sometimes you have to strip everything away before you can find out what most naturally fits best.  One you transcend the Ego-Mind, then do -- and that doing will come from a much more grounded, less ignorant place.  

Edited by Joseph Maynor

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@OmniYoga If you feel like it, you can do both. Envision what you could create, take the actions that you can, and surrender to whatever comes. It is possible to pursue things without emotionality and attachment, but of course, you will get attached to stuff like almost everyone does. Which is inevitable because of the amount of blockages and cravings people have.

In my own case I don't really work presently on vision. It does not feel right. Feels contracted. I have an idea for a career choice I wanna pursue and I'm studying for that. I did go through the life purpose course so I'm quite comfortable with liking my choice, but I don't really actively put thought to it. I just try to follow through all the studying I do in Uni. That aside I'm just letting my issues come up and progressively surrendering the blockages and need to control I have. I can't say how well that approach would work for others. Being in a non-dual state makes it more plausible I would imagine.

Edited by Markus

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10 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Sometimes you have to strip everything away before you can find out what most naturally fits best.  One you transcend the Ego-Mind, then do -- and that doing will come from a much more grounded, less ignorant place.  

@Joseph Maynor of course, and some other times, you just have to use whatever is available at the moment and make the most out of it.

Self-transcendence is fundamental in both cases.

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Hello, and thank you for the great question,

To surrender your vision doesn't mean to give it up. You can both strive for things, and surrender your will, there's no contradiction.

This is not physical surrender, or the idea of "surrender" we usually think about, it's the let go of the imaginary controller - as simple and basic as that sounds, it may take you years to understand experientially through awakening, and even then you will realise that you can't surrender, there's nothing and no-one to surrender. It's not up to you, and you can't force it. It's done for you in the right place and time according to god's will.

Godspeed

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On 2/27/2019 at 2:43 AM, OmniYoga said:

so here I am, listening to Leo talking about creating big powerful  vision
and in the same I'm having in back of the head contradicting idea about surreding to the life stream river,
becasue we are all heading to the same destination anyway,
why not go with the flow, and instead paddle againts the stream,
becasue pursuit any kind of vision will create massive resistance - that's pretty obvious
there is beatiful analogy about this in Levels of energy - F. Dodson,

on the other hand vision gives life meaning

what are enlightenment people your thoughts  about it?xD

@OmniYoga In my life, I found it goes like this:

1. work on dissolving the ego

2. Once progress has been made to dissolve the ego, cultivate radical acceptance, which untangles attachments and aversions.

3. After acceptance, surrender to movement from the Source.

4. Surrender to the movement of the Source. Your actions will become what Buddhists call "right action". The Bhagavad Gita  says that we should perform correct action but be unattached from the fruits of the action.

While you may be completely unattached to the outcome of your actions, the actions could appear even aggressive-like to an outsider. Surrendering is not the same as passivity.

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