I can't stop but thinking that women are inferior to men

[Ampresus]

Hello everyone. I think this problem occurs because of my mostly Blue youth. Now although I am technically still a child, I left those old Blue ways mostly behind me. To understand this, you need some background information first.

I was raised up as a sunni/shia muslim (my mom is sunni, my dad is shia). Although both parts of Islam have differences, both also think that women are inferior to men. When I first heard about how this happens in Islam, I thought it was nonsense. I was 100% convinced that in Islam women are equal to men. Turns out... that could be true. I think if Islamic people would just modernize, they would see that all the Quran wanted was its believers to modernize and become more conscious all along. However, the believers resist it. Both in culture and in personal lives. I was grown up with the idea that women need to fully censor themselves because we men can be seduced too easily by them, that a woman's body is holy and that any non-believer who decides to show a bit of their body is probably a slut.

I am not trying to start a discussion about whether or not the Islamic ways are the true ways. I just want this condition out of my head. It gets really had sometimes to see other women as actual people and treat them that way. I know they deserve it and I know that they are humans. It just can get really hard and I wonder how it can stop.

Take care.

Edited January 27, 2019 by Ampresus

[Shin]

Just be aware of your sexist thoughts.

Don't judge them and don't push them away.

In time that will dissolve those beliefs.

[RichardY]

@Ampresus If they were, wouldn't that technically make a guy homosexual? In contrast to elevate women with feminism means men are cucked.

[Forestluv]

26 minutes ago, RichardY said:

@Ampresus If they were, wouldn't that technically make a guy homosexual? 

?‍♂️ 

[Nahm]

@Ampresus

Men say woman are inferior to men, yet must cover themselves because men can be seduced too easily.         

Men say woman need to fully censor themselves, yet men say woman are regarded as holy. 

 

When you see and understand what’s really at play behind those inherently conflicting perspectives, it’ll be out of your head for good.  When you inquire within yourself, into the heart of being, what do you find? Part of you relates to each ‘side’ of those conflicting views. What parts of you?  Then, what’s the truth in Ampresus, how are the ‘parts’ actually whole? What perspective arises from that?

 

[Leo Gura]

It ain't just a problem in Islam. Any society below stage Green will have patriarchal views of women, womanhood, and femininity.

Humans are a patriarchal species up until stage Green.

Even in America this problem has not be fully resolved. About half the US population is not evolved enough to understand feminism.

Your views of sex and gender roles are pretty much a straight-up indoctrination from whatever culture you grew up in. Notice you are just like a monkey following the herd. You have almost no original thoughts of your own about gender. Monkey see, monkey believe, monkey do.

[p1xelmonk]

10 hours ago, Ampresus said:

I was grown up with the idea that women need to fully censor themselves because we men can be seduced too easily by them, that a woman's body is holy and that any non-believer who decides to show a bit of their body is probably a slut.

lol does this not imply that men are the inferior ones and have no self control?

[Andreas]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It ain't just a problem in Islam. Any society below stage Green will have patriarchal views of women, womanhood, and femininity.

Humans are a patriarchal species up until stage Green.

Even in America this problem has not be fully resolved. About half the US population is not evolved enough to understand feminism.

What is it that they don't understand? 

[CreamCat]

13 hours ago, Ampresus said:

both also think that women are inferior to men.

 

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Any society below stage Green will have patriarchal views of women, womanhood, and femininity.

 

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Your views of sex and gender roles are pretty much a straight-up indoctrination from whatever culture you grew up in.

Whatever patriarchy means, I don't have any strong opinion about gender roles. For my whole lifetime, whenever I heard people say about gender roles, it felt like bullshit. I had no thoughts about inferiority or superiority, either. Why do you even bother to think about it when you can just fool around and enjoy your life without caring others?

I had been basically raised in my cave because my parents were both busy working. In my memory, public schools had no interest in teaching anything about gender, either. Thus, I have very little social conditioning with regard to gender or sex. Or, I didn't really pay attention because I liked to always fool around. For a little while, public schools dabbled with conditioning me with nationalist view points, but they only dabbled. So, I lost nationalist views very quickly. Until I graduated university, I was basically left alone whenever teachers were not cramming my mind with random facts.

When your environment is full of lazy Orange people, there could be very little social conditioning. Orange can have little or no thought about gender, gender roles, or society. From my view point, USA hasn't reached solid Orange, yet.

Whether men or women are inferior in some way is not important to you. Gender roles are not important to you. They are just distractions. Whatever is going on around you, focus on mind, body, relationship, and creative production.

Edited January 27, 2019 by CreamCat

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, Andreas said:

What is it that they don't understand? 

They don't understand what patriarchy or feminism even are. You may as well be talking about unicorns to such people.

A stage Blue person thinks that feminism is an attempt to oppress men.

Like this nonsense here:

 

[Rilles]

Inferiority is a concept you made up. Go ahead and contemplate what it really is.

[Andreas]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

They don't understand what patriarchy or feminism even are. You may as well be talking about unicorns to such people.

A stage Blue person thinks that feminism is an attempt to oppress men.

Like this nonsense here:

 

What is it that is unequal then? 

[Wyze]

@Ampresus I feel like your conditioning has an unexamined emotional core/attachment to it. Saying that its Quran/Islam/Culture as the explanation of your conditioning, is protecting your ego belief that you don't want to examine (a defense mechanism)

Is there an event in your life where the belief "women are inferior" became an emotionally defining point to you personally? Often the event was very negative and soul hurting.

[Ampresus]

@Wyze Not a specific event, but the first time I was introduced to salafists in the Middle-East. I started doing some research, see how people live in ISIL territories and trying to make a plan to maybe fix it. However, more and more I saw of ISIL, more and more I couldn't stop but thinking that they were living the right way. The way Islam was meant to be. With Shariah and all.

It is only because of this forum that I got out of that mindset. I discovered sufism, but haven't gotten a chance to read a book about it. When introduced to Spiral Dynamics, I could really have a good view of the situation in the Middle-East. I started doing some more research about ISIL and just observed. I have gained a lot of knowledge because of that. However, these subconscious beliefs still withold sometimes. For example: the belief that women are inferior to men.

[Wyze]

@Ampresus If it was just a belief from reading; its actually very easy to change. All you have to do is debunk it via logic, and you would have done it by now.

However what I see is that you have an emotional attachment to those belief. Usually, you need to go back to the event that triggered those emotions in you for you to truly see why you are holding onto those beliefs.

Unfortunately, only you can do this work (because its your emotions), and no amount of logic can debunk an emotional reaction or attachment.

Edited January 27, 2019 by Wyze

[Aquarius]

You do believe women are equal to men, you just overthink too much, trying to force an idea instead of allowing it.

It's not your fault you're suffering, it's the upbringing, but you are ultimately responsible for the thoughts you believe in. Let go of any ideas and let growth happen. If you're interested about my views, I think every human deserves the same amount of respect, regardless of race, sex, gender, orientation, nationality and intelligence. We are equal in the eyes of God, but everyone has different gifts. Gifts come with responsibility. Sometimes even lack of talent is a gift, depending on perspective. It's all relative. 

Clear your mind. Visualize an idea of the kind of person you want to become and work towards that. It's all that you can do. Much love and respect to you.

[RichardY]

@Ampresus

Well as the Qu'ran is called the direct dictation of God, go from there. Handy... even in categories. there we go "The Women" between "The Cow" and "The Cattle". 

4:4:11. Twice as much property for male heirs, than female...... Nice.

4:4:14  If you disobey any commandments you'll burn in hellfire for ever, no repentance, Allah is most merciful......... Bit Harsh.

4:4:15  Four witnesses required for any shameful acts(illicit fornication) of a woman.

4:4:23 No marrying direct descendants or Nannys. If your wife has a step daughter she is game, but if you go into her, no marriage. 

4:4:24 If you lie to your future wife before marriage, that's game. "And there is no blame upon you for what you mutually agree to beyond the obligation."................... I can show you World, shining shimmering splendid....