Pick only one : Self inquiry / Meditation. Why?

[Jack River]

@Anna1 how does that go again? Neti Neti ? 

What kind of questions do you ask? 

[Jack River]

So we are negating the answers that arise in experience? By what grounds do we negate? 

[Ananta]

Jack river-

 

"Neti neti, meaning, "Not this, not this", is the method of Vedic analysis of negation. It is a keynote of Vedic inquiry. With its aid the Jnani negates identification with all things of this world which is not the Atman, in this way he negates the Anatman. Through this gradual process he negates the mind and transcends all worldly experiences that are negated till nothing remains but the Self. He attains union with the Absolute by denying the body, name, form, intellect, senses and all limiting adjuncts and discovers what remains, the true "I" alone."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neti_neti

Edited November 23, 2018 by Anna1

[Jack River]

43 minutes ago, Anna1 said:

Jack river-

 

"Neti neti, meaning, "Not this, not this", is the method of Vedic analysis of negation. It is a keynote of Vedic inquiry. With its aid the Jnani negates identification with all things of this world which is not the Atman, in this way he negates the Anatman. Through this gradual process he negates the mind and transcends all worldly experiences that are negated till nothing remains but the Self. He attains union with the Absolute by denying the body, name, form, intellect, senses and all limiting adjuncts and discovers what remains, the true "I" alone."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neti_neti

I see. Does this negation arise from a reaction? 

Is it a negation from seeing the truth in the false? 

Or is the negation an movement of desire? 

What brings about this negation? Because the self will gladly negate what is not favorable in order to attain what is. Pretty interesting this self enquiry method. 

[Preetom]

@Jack River

44 minutes ago, Jack River said:

I see. Does this negation arise from a reaction? 

Is it a negation from seeing the truth in the false? 

Or is the negation an movement of desire? 

What brings about this negation? Because the self will gladly negate what is not favorable in order to attain what is. Pretty interesting this self enquiry method. 

It's done through refined intellect or clear seeing without any judgement.

Anything that is perceivable or conceivable is seen as unreal because they are all subject to change.

If this process is consciously kept up, all 'objects' of Consciousness are seen as unreal and only Pure Consciousness remains.

The self ceases to identify itself with any object ever again and shines as THE SELF. It was always THE SELF...it only appeared as the ego self due to ignorant identification. When that spell of ignorance is broken, only the Absolute is...

That's when neti neti spontaneously comes to its end and what is prevails as it always is.

[Jack River]

7 minutes ago, Preetom said:

@Jack River

It's done through refined intellect or clear seeing without any judgement.

Anything that is perceivable or conceivable is seen as unreal because they are all subject to change.

If this process is consciously kept up, all 'objects' of Consciousness are seen as unreal and only Pure Consciousness remains.

The self ceases to identify itself with any object ever again and shines as THE SELF. It was always THE SELF...it only appeared as the ego self due to ignorant identification. When that spell of ignorance is broken, only the Absolute is...

That's when neti neti spontaneously comes to its end and what is prevails as it always is.

Thanks for the reply dude?

Is the psychological pursuit (self movement) touched upon prior to this enquiry? As in to get to this point of seeing clearly without judgment or without a reward determining the direction of the enquiry/investigation/exploration? 

Edited November 23, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

thank you too @Anna1

[Ananta]

23 minutes ago, Jack River said:

Does this negation arise from a reaction? 

No

25 minutes ago, Jack River said:

Is it a negation from seeing the truth in the false? 

No

27 minutes ago, Jack River said:

Or is the negation an movement of desire? 

No

29 minutes ago, Jack River said:

What brings about this negation?

Discrimination, between me (awareness) and objects that appear within me, this happens in the intellect.

[Jack River]

7 minutes ago, Anna1 said:

No

No

No

Discrimination, between me (awareness) and objects that appear within me, this happens in the intellect.

Oh. Gotcha

I find that the self will both at times identify with “its experiences” and dis-identify with its experiences. The self will choose according to its psychological preference. This seems to be a pattern of the self/thought divison. I can see there being this identifying and disidentification(movement of self) corrupting the enquiries integrity. 

I wonder how this “movement of self/positive/negative choosing/identification” is transcended using that method. Any thoughts? 

Edited November 23, 2018 by Jack River

[Ananta]

16 minutes ago, Jack River said:

I wonder how this “movement” is transcended. Any thoughts? 

@Jack River

Identification as the false self, needs to transfer to identifiction with awareness. Already described above by @Preetom .

My take is that awareness will still have an "association" with the body/mind, transact business in the world, have preferences and what not, but there won't be the "belief/identification" that the body/mind is real and it's true identity.... it's only "apparently" real and ultimately a illusion. 

 

[Ananta]

@Jack River I would also say, perhaps you should try neti-neti method yourself? To get your other questions answered. I'm just not sure what you're asking really. 

[peanutspathtotruth]

1 hour ago, Anna1 said:

Discrimination, between me (awareness) and objects that appear within me, this happens in the intellect.

This has helped me quite a bit so far but right now I have to say "this happens in the intellect" does not have to be true any longer for me. And I think neti neti has a limitation in there, as long as the intellect is involved. Only when I let go of the intellect, of the desire to discriminate or do anything, could I go deeper.

But it's also important to say that this feels like a progression. First discrimination was crucial, now I see even it standing in the way. Same with the general idea of "I want to become enlightened" - very important in the beginning but huge obstacle later on. At least for me. 

[Ananta]

@peanutspathtotruth You can think it's no longer happening in your intellect...but, it is still happening in your intellect. ?

[peanutspathtotruth]

@Anna1 How do you know? I'm not saying I'm doing the method you know or how you think it works. It's actually a cessation of all methods and the letting go of intellect. Of course it comments and is still there, but "IT is still happening" supposes there is something happening. Happening depends on psychological time. This was a major recent breakthrough for me to see that breaking out of any desire is a no-method. It's beyond intellect and movement in it. That's super important and it's really hard to see because the intellect can't see how to do it. But only this way of looking is what really gets me deeper. 

It's easy for you to project but you have limited conceptions and experiences of what this method is for you (as do I). No attack, and I don't have to  proof anything (impossible anyway )  just pointing out that this is being an assumption of yours. 

[ajasatya]

On 21/11/2018 at 4:54 PM, Gligorije said:

Pick only one : Self inquiry / Meditation. Why?

i don't think you understand what you're doing 

[Jack River]

1 hour ago, Anna1 said:

@Jack River I would also say, perhaps you should try neti-neti method yourself? To get your other questions answered. I'm just not sure what you're asking really. 

No I’m just curious about other methods. To understand there processes. I feel I have come to SEE/understand what-is without either of those methods. I am just interested in the different ways. Pretty groovy stuff. 

I feel it’s easy to understand how they work already being with moments of nonbeing. 

Edited November 23, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

39 minutes ago, peanutspathtotruth said:

This has helped me quite a bit so far but right now I have to say "this happens in the intellect" does not have to be true any longer for me. And I think neti neti has a limitation in there, as long as the intellect is involved. Only when I let go of the intellect, of the desire to discriminate or do anything, could I go deeper.

But it's also important to say that this feels like a progression. First discrimination was crucial, now I see even it standing in the way. Same with the general idea of "I want to become enlightened" - very important in the beginning but huge obstacle later on. At least for me. 

Fosho. Seems to be common as the psychological mind. 

[Jack River]

We are always wanting to become something from childhood and up. This seems to be the barrier-preventing factor. 

Edited November 23, 2018 by Jack River

[Preetom]

40 minutes ago, peanutspathtotruth said:

This has helped me quite a bit so far but right now I have to say "this happens in the intellect" does not have to be true any longer for me. And I think neti neti has a limitation in there, as long as the intellect is involved. Only when I let go of the intellect, of the desire to discriminate or do anything, could I go deeper.

But it's also important to say that this feels like a progression. First discrimination was crucial, now I see even it standing in the way. Same with the general idea of "I want to become enlightened" - very important in the beginning but huge obstacle later on. At least for me. 

You've got it spot on my friend!

The very purpose of doing neti neti is to refine the intellect more and more. Normally, a person is totally identified with the contents of his experience. 

At one point, this discrimination skill gets so sharp that clever thoughts like 'I want enlightnement' and intellect itself is seen as another subtle object. At this point, neti neti collapses as a mental labeling or intellectual categorizing. 

A holistic, pure, effortless Witnessing takes place. This is what J. Krishnamurti called choiceless Awareness. It was always there, now it shines and you know it first hand. 

Great that you've had this breakthrough  

[DrewNows]

1 minute ago, Jack River said:

We are always wanting to become something from childhood and up. This seems to be the barrier-preventing factor. 

Yes however it’s interpreted as more of a “game” in childhood therefore it doesn’t have as great of an impact. 

Unfortunately it’s when the training begins to psychologically become going on to create much conflict