I am enlightened. Sincere seekers: ask me anything

[Jack River]

We can use “actual” in a different sense. The abstraction is actual in one sense and not in another. Depends on how we are using “actual”. 

Edited November 13, 2018 by Jack River

[Forestluv]

@winterknight

Would it be more accurate to say the physical buildings are *within* the University? And that the University cannot be located as an object?

Similarly, thoughts are like buildings *within* a Self. Yet, The Self cannot be located as an object of a self.

Once step further. . . each individual entity is like a building within a single consciousness (one holistic Self of everything)?

 

[Emanyalpsid]

Actually, the flower example suits here;

if we define something as a flower, we think that the flower exists upon itself and we can give meaning to the flower. We are in the believe that it exists out of matter and that this matter constitutes the flower. However that which really constitutes a flower is of dependent origin, as the flower is dependent upon space, time, gravity, matter,etc. Its essence is therefor empty. You can not define the flower by only mentioning the matter. Where would this flower be without space, time and gravity?

This is the same as with the university. The university exists out of everything it constitutes: the professors, the students, the buildings, the books, the website, etc. So you can not say the buildings are the university. 

Edited November 13, 2018 by Emanyalpsid

[Jack River]

8 minutes ago, Emanyalpsid said:

This is the same as with the university. The university exists out of everything it constitutes: the professors, the students, the buildings, the books, the website, etc. So you can not say the buildings are the univesity. 

Bingo!! 

Well put?

Just like “the individual” is the society. We abstract/divide. This seems to be a result of the inward state of being divided. 

Edited November 13, 2018 by Jack River

[Outer]

9 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

@winterknight

Would it be more accurate to say the physical buildings are *within* the University? And that the University cannot be located as an object?

Similarly, thoughts are like buildings *within* a Self. Yet, The Self cannot be located as an object of a self.

Once step further. . . each individual entity is like a building within a single consciousness (one holistic Self of everything)?

 

I think he means the physical buildings don't exist even though you think you see them.

[winterknight]

20 minutes ago, Outer said:

So realization is like seeing reality but knowing it doesn't exist? Or that it is a mirage? It is a dream?

I was watching a video about China developing and deploying solar panels and then I imagined (thought) about it in my mind's eye but then there came a barrier. There was no need to think about it. Or I did and it was just blank. It was a relief. It was similar to when I did self-inquiry to stop thought and I did, and then a bunch of thoughts came up that everything was obviously determined. Because I've seen it to be true.

No, even "seeing" cannot be said to be happening. That's part of the misunderstanding.

One will never understand till they experience it themselves...

9 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

@winterknight

Would it be more accurate to say the physical buildings are *within* the University? And that the University cannot be located as an object?

Similarly, thoughts are like buildings *within* a Self. Yet, The Self cannot be located as an object of a self.

Once step further. . . each individual entity is like a building within a single consciousness (one holistic Self of everything)?

 

This is the problem with analogies . In real life, the buildings are in the university, but in truth, thoughts don't exist, so that they cannot be located in the Self.

All I was trying to point out was the idea of a category mistake. 

21 minutes ago, Jack River said:

It’s an abstraction, that what you mean to say dude? 

Yes, it's an abstraction, but the point was referring to the kind of mistake that ignorance might (vaguely, approximately) be analogized to.

[SoonHei]

@winterknight i guess it can be said looking to point out building or university is like we are looking to point to a smell out there or a sound or a sensation or a taste...

 

These do not exist out there

 

Only in the "mind" which will not be found in the physical manifest.

 

Ya?

[Forestluv]

10 minutes ago, winterknight said:

This is the problem with analogies . In real life, the buildings are in the university, but in truth, thoughts don't exist, so that they cannot be located in the Self.

Would you say the buildings exist, yet thoughts don't exist?

I.e. the building itself exists, yet the mind's idea that this is a building does not exist?

[SoonHei]

@winterknight @Emanyalpsid

 

From your current place of being / witnessing all.

Do you have a way to know what will happen after the body-mind thru which you live now dies/passes?

What will you then be? Or are you already that which I maybe suggesting you will become in the future

 

I'm more so asking what will you "live as" if not the body... ? Right now you are able to communicate your wisdom (or express it since the SELF does not do anything) thru the body... That will cease to be and you will then become all of it. Without a centered body-mind view that you seem to have now?

[Jack River]

11 minutes ago, winterknight said:

but in truth, thoughts don't exist

Thought is a process that can be considered actual. What we take away/interpret from the thought in its meaning is not actual, as it is dependent on relative knowledge/memory...The process of thought is actual as it is a movement/process of matter/body that is in process..

 Also the result that thought invents in the form of the building is also actual. The buildings are reality/actual but are a product of thought. 

The takeaway from thought seems to be the imagined, but thought itself can be seen as actual or a manifestation of reality or truth itself.

Edited November 13, 2018 by Jack River

[SoonHei]

@Jack River exactly

Thought is content / phenomena just like a physical building, sound, taste etc in the absolute

[Forestluv]

8 minutes ago, Jack River said:

Thought is a process that can be considered actual. What we take away/interpret from the thought in its meaning is not actual, as it is dependent on relative knowledge/memory...

It seems all thoughts are interpretation. Tell me a thought that is not an interpretation. . . 

[SoonHei]

@Serotoninluv maybe that's the ultimate realization that all of what we think or interpertate is false...

It has an apparant meaning but no true meaning

Maybe that's the deepest insight that all in indeed meaningless as meaning is just what you assign to it

[SoonHei]

@Mikael89 i am sure there was never that happening from the POV of the SELF. 

Also, SELF only ever knows SELF

The distinctions of finite living beings is not known by the SELF. It is seen as itself.

[graded24]

does someone know how to delete  comments here

Edited November 13, 2018 by graded24

[Jack River]

1 hour ago, Serotoninluv said:

It seems all thoughts are interpretation. Tell me a thought that is not an interpretation. . . 

We can question what is the relationship of thinking to reality..

with unconditioned/undivided awareness we can see that thought itself is in an actual process of movement.

This is what I refer to as awareness that ends its own movement. 

[graded24]

@winterknight Recently my meditation/contemplation takes me into the following direction. Please let me know if it is worth pursuing

 

I ask myself what is it that is always here, changeless and is yet goes unnoticed by the mind. And the answer I get is, this intangible, undefinable "thing" that gives Now its reality. There is a timelessness to it. It does unnoticed by the mind because mind can only understand things by comparison so cannot see what is changeless and always there. Then i try to notice this "thing" and a sinking of the mind starts occurring. Mind calms down because it doesnt feel required to notice what is already here, prior to knowing. 
After such a 'meditation', there is a general peace and stillness that i feel for a while. 

It has an effect on me that i cant quite put my finger on. Is it something legit or am i deluding myself ?

Edited November 13, 2018 by graded24

[winterknight]

3 hours ago, SoonHei said:

@winterknight i guess it can be said looking to point out building or university is like we are looking to point to a smell out there or a sound or a sensation or a taste...

 

These do not exist out there

 

Only in the "mind" which will not be found in the physical manifest.

 

Ya?

No, that's not what I mean. The mind and the physical are both part of the same thing. It is not that the physical is real but the mind is not.

The lesson from the university example is that the person had the wrong idea of what a university was. They thought it was a specific building or something. It was an idea.

In the same way, there is a misunderstanding about reality that is going on that spiritual seeking can correct. That's all I meant with that example.

3 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

Would you say the buildings exist, yet thoughts don't exist?

I.e. the building itself exists, yet the mind's idea that this is a building does not exist?

No, both the mind and the building are on the same plane. As soon as you say "building" -- you've already brought in mind. That example was just to give an example of a misunderstanding, not to compare buildings to thoughts or anything like that.

3 hours ago, SoonHei said:

@winterknight @Emanyalpsid

 

From your current place of being / witnessing all.

Do you have a way to know what will happen after the body-mind thru which you live now dies/passes?

What will you then be? Or are you already that which I maybe suggesting you will become in the future

 

I'm more so asking what will you "live as" if not the body... ? Right now you are able to communicate your wisdom (or express it since the SELF does not do anything) thru the body... That will cease to be and you will then become all of it. Without a centered body-mind view that you seem to have now?

I was never born and will not die, and the same is true of you. I do not live "through" the body-mind and neither do you. The body-mind is an illusion, and nothing can be known for certainty about illusions, because they don't really exist.

3 hours ago, Jack River said:

Thought is a process that can be considered actual. What we take away/interpret from the thought in its meaning is not actual, as it is dependent on relative knowledge/memory...The process of thought is actual as it is a movement/process of matter/body that is in process..

 Also the result that thought invents in the form of the building is also actual. The buildings are reality/actual but are a product of thought. 

The takeaway from thought seems to be the imagined, but thought itself can be seen as actual or a manifestation of reality or truth itself.

Actually, in the end thought is itself illusion.

2 hours ago, Mikael89 said:

In what way was the Self (Consciousness) Conscious when there was no living beings in the universe at all?

Just some matter moving around randomly and after a long time they sticked together by gravity so things started to take shape and eventually biological life started. How was Consciousness like in those days?

You guys/girls will probably say: "That's just a concept, just a story in your mind, that never happened. There is no past, there's only NOW."

But it has been proved sooo hard by science, it's beyond doubt in science...

Well, you'll have to ask scientists then. 

1 hour ago, graded24 said:

@winterknight Recently my meditation/contemplation takes me into the following direction. Please let me know if it is worth pursuing

 

I ask myself what is it that is always here, changeless and is yet goes unnoticed by the mind. And the answer I get is, this intangible, undefinable "thing" that gives Now its reality. There is a timelessness to it. It does unnoticed by the mind because mind can only understand things by comparison so cannot see what is changeless and always there. Then i try to notice this "thing" and a sinking of the mind starts occurring. Mind calms down because it doesnt feel required to notice what is already here, prior to knowing. 
After such a 'meditation', there is a general peace and stillness that i feel for a while. 

It has an effect on me that i cant quite put my finger on. Is it something legit or am i deluding myself ?

Yes, it sounds legitimate to me. The key is to keep that peace with your eyes open in the world all the time, not just sitting with your eyes closed. As you are sitting, talking, walking, etc. -- every waking moment -- stay in that peace with your mind calm and resting.

39 minutes ago, Ero said:

@winterknight

The " I" labels nothing a" thought". It's qualities (non existing) is what the seeker("I") perceives. The main quality is that of belonging, aka "mine". So in a sense the "I" will always think of having free will, exactly because of the way it "made something rather than nothing".As long as the seeker exists (the circular identification) he'll have free will. The statement - "no free will" can be wrongfully perceived as an identity-until its actually experienced) The biggest mindfuck up to this point that I can only experience and not conceptualise is the fact of the "timeless" void.Like it's just ridiculous  - "no words". Even this very... Only the experience. When there's no concept when writing, just existence happening - predetermined? What is actually existing? @winterknight

like only being /awareness - nothing else I'd identified. Like writing on itself? What is writing? Nothing...How the f*** can that be expressed. Like no one's writing. Like w**? 

Yes, it cannot be expressed. No need to be expressed. If you have a state of clear peace that you are calling the "timeless void," stay in it through all your activities, every waking moment.

[Strikr]

is there such a thing as "kundalini energy" / "present being energy ", how would you call it ?

why did I experience such a power in all my body, was it delusion ?

if all thoughts are spiral lies, what remains words that point to a common truth ? such as an abstract path to enlightment, call this "path" "true",

what remains "true divine law" then to this reality ? is "karma" " law of attraction " a law of nature or a delusion of the false biased thought-self ?

why did I feel ( and can create this state whenever I want in meditation ) I just focus my self on breath, and create "thought" in my mind to block others thoughts " like nothing matter, nothing exist, I m now here in the space ", then I meditate and can feel it.

 feeling on a trip without drug is it delusion or real power of control in the body ? is there such a thing as a divine energy or natural energy flow ?

 

Edited November 13, 2018 by Strikr

[graded24]

26 minutes ago, winterknight said:

Yes, it sounds legitimate to me. The key is to keep that peace with your eyes open in the world all the time, not just sitting with your eyes closed. As you are sitting, talking, walking, etc. -- every waking moment -- stay in that peace with your mind calm and resting.

What is it that gives Now its Reality? Why is the clock ticking Now real while the same clock ticking a second ago is not real?