I am enlightened. Sincere seekers: ask me anything

[graded24]

32 minutes ago, winterknight said:

How about if you're driving? Ever zone out then and suddenly find yourself nearer your destination, but not really having remembered the last few minutes? 

Or what about in the morning, have you ever woken up and had a second just before you remembered who you were or where you were or anything about anything or anyone, but were just sort of totally blank?

One kind of experience is much more common to me. Sometimes, when there is stillness, the present moment looks totally absurd.. especially the time aspect of it. Somehow we all FIND ourselves here and things are changing, and somehow everyone goes with it as "thats how it is". It is all quite strange! No one knows what this is but everyone is playing along! Why are things changing at a certain speed?! What is all this?! It doesnt make any sense whatsoever! Why is time here?

Can you please comment on what this kind of moment mean? :-o 

Edited November 13, 2018 by graded24

[winterknight]

1 minute ago, graded24 said:

One kind of experience is much more common to me. Sometimes, when there is stillness, the present moment looks totally absurd.. especially the time aspect of it. Somehow we are all FIND ourselves here and things are changing, and somehow everyone goes with it as "thats how it is". It is all quite strange! No one knows what this is but everyone is playing along! Why are things changing at a certain speed?! What is all this?! It doesnt make any sense whatsoever!

Can you please comment on what this kind of moment mean? :-o 

Yes, it's an entirely correct sense of existential absurdity. It's often how the spiritual quest begins 

[graded24]

12 minutes ago, winterknight said:

Yes, so both of these are glimpses, but the morning one is closer ("not even clear what happened in retrospect" -- yes).

The true I cannot be described or known as an object.

You are that I even right this very second, and being that I is itself a very special kind of knowing. It seems like you don't know it because you are looking through the lens of the mind, and the true I to the mind seems like literally nothing, but nothing is actually not nothing.

This being the true I is not the kind of knowing that can be remembered, talked about, or described accurately, as you've already experienced.

So I cannot "know" the true "I", I can only "be" the true "I"?

But how would I know whether i am being the true I or i am being some version of the ego (like in the case of weed-meditation) ? 

[winterknight]

Just now, graded24 said:

So I cannot "know" the true "I", I can only "be" the true "I"?

But how would I know whether i am being the true I or i am being some version of the ego (like in the case of weed-meditation) ? 

You are always being the true I. You are it right now. Just stop thinking. That silence that seems like nothing is you.

As soon as you ask "what silence?" "what nothing?" -- it's hidden again.

So you are it always, the question is only whether your mind has recognized it or not. If there is any doubt about it, you haven't. Recognition of it is beyond doubt.

[graded24]

1 minute ago, winterknight said:

You are always being the true I. You are it right now. Just stop thinking. That silence that seems like nothing is you.

As soon as you ask "what silence?" "what nothing?" -- it's hidden again.

So you are it always, the question is only whether your mind has recognized it or not. If there is any doubt about it, you haven't. Recognition of it is beyond doubt.

Ok good. I got it.

But if the true I is not an object how can the mind ever recognize its experience which is presumably always present? 

[winterknight]

11 minutes ago, graded24 said:

Ok good. I got it.

But if the true I is not an object how can the mind ever recognize its experience which is presumably always present? 

It can't really be explained, unfortunately. You could say the mind just sees its own boundaries and therefore understands its own illusory nature and implodes. As it does so -- the true I, which is usually hidden in plain sight by the mind, becomes obvious. It's not a perfect way of putting it but there it is.

Edited November 13, 2018 by winterknight

[Mu_]

2 hours ago, Mikael89 said:

So enlightenment is God closing the book. Poof Mikael is gone/dead. God continues reading other novels.

I'm a puppet.

But nvm, Truth is beyond any of these analogies.

No, poof, Mikael remembers who Mikael is, like find keys you forgot you lost.  Mikael embrasses his limited history with tremendous love, understands the present moment and is not afraid of the future.  Born and unborn, knowing all as Self and self as Self.  Laughing at the hilarity of it all, while not brushing any of it off as unimportant.

[Mu_]

3 minutes ago, winterknight said:

It can't really be explained, unfortunately. You could say the mind just sees its own boundaries and therefore understands its own illusory nature and implodes. As it does so -- the true I, which is usually hidden in plain sight by the mind, becomes obvious. It's not a perfect way of putting it but there it is.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by true "I" becomes obvious?  It sounds like your referring to a phenomenon/experience is arising in consciousness.  From my experience, a unshakable conviction and self knowledge, not a phenomenon of sight/experience that convinces is what took place, almost like Self memory returned, memories of before being, seeing before born and then a remembrance like I just found some keys I had forgotten I placed somewhere and now found, remain.

[winterknight]

Just now, Mu_ said:

Can you elaborate on what you mean by true "I" becomes obvious?  It sounds like your referring to a phenomenon/experience is arising in consciousness.  From my experience, a unshakable conviction and self knowledge, not a phenomenon of sight/experience that convinces is what took place, almost like Self memory returned, memories of before being, seeing before born and then a remembrance like I just found some keys I had forgotten I placed somewhere and now found, remain.

No, it's not a phenomenon arising in consciousness. It is the radiance that is the very nature of consciousness, knowing itself by itself, beyond time and space. This radiance is usually hidden by the movement of the mind. So when that movement stops through a process of discernment, the radiance-seeing-itself is no longer seemingly hidden.

[graded24]

15 minutes ago, winterknight said:

It can't really be explained, unfortunately. You could say the mind just sees its own boundaries and therefore understands its own illusory nature and implodes. As it does so -- the true I, which is usually hidden in plain sight by the mind, becomes obvious. It's not a perfect way of putting it but there it is.

I used to do a lot of open eye meditation in which i would merge field of attention with total awareness and try to attend to the whole mind-body-world at the same time. It started having an effect. Every once in a while when i am out in the world doing my thing,  the visual world would suddenly start looking quite unreal ..flimsy.. like a 3D hologram. There would be a collapse of the separation between me and the world but only visually. It would look that i am where the world is and vice versa. It was like nondual awareness but only visually. (i only noticed later that psychological me remained very much). It would last from minutes to sometimes an hour or two. And then it would be back to normal view. 
I stopped doing that because i realized that the psychological self wasnt being affected by it and it remained very much during those episodes. I can still switch on those modes if i try for a few minutes. The world starts looking like a 3D hologram and appearing where my head is. 
What is this perception of the illusory nature of the visual world? DOes it have any significance? I ask because it seems to be a mini case  of mind recognizing its own illusory nature.. only the visual mind recognizes it. 

Edited November 13, 2018 by graded24

[winterknight]

4 minutes ago, graded24 said:

I used to do a lot of open eye meditation in which i would merge field of attention with total awareness and try to attend to the whole mind-body-world at the same time. It started having an effect. Every once in a while when i am out in the world doing my thing,  the visual world would suddenly start looking quite unreal ..flimsy.. like a 3D hologram. There would be a collapse of the separation between me and the world but only visually. It would look that i am where the world is and vice versa. It was like nondual awareness but only visually. (i only noticed later that psychological me remained very much). It would last from minutes to sometimes an hour or two. And then it would be back to normal view. 
I stopped doing that because i realized that the psychological self wasnt being affected by it and it remained very much during those episodes. I can still switch on those modes if i try for a few minutes. The world starts looking like a 3D hologram and appearing where my head is. 
What is this perception of the illusory nature of the visual world? DOes it have any significance? 

It sounds like you were able to affect your mental states through some process of concentration.

It doesn't have much spiritual significance, unfortunately, sorry. As you correctly put it, the psychological self wasn't being affected.

But if it's cool -- enjoy it! Nothing wrong with that.

Going back to an earlier question of yours about how to know whether your realization is real or not... another question to ask is: does it come and go? Any experience that has a beginning and an end, that comes and goes -- isn't It. So any kind of mental transformation or change in your perceptions or thoughts or feelings, however spectacular... if it comes and goes, it is not the ultimate truth.

Edited November 13, 2018 by winterknight

[Mu_]

9 minutes ago, winterknight said:

It sounds like you were able to affect your mental states through some process of concentration.

It doesn't have much spiritual significance, unfortunately, sorry. As you correctly put it, the psychological self wasn't being affected.

But if it's cool -- enjoy it! Nothing wrong with that.

Going back to an earlier question of yours about how to know whether your realization is real or not... another question to ask is: does it come and go? Any experience that has a beginning and an end, that comes and goes -- isn't It. So any kind of mental transformation or change in your perceptions or thoughts or feelings, however spectacular... if it comes and goes, it is not the ultimate truth.

There are many things that don't come and go, one being experiencing itself, another is heartbeat, another is breath (speaking from the point of view of the un-awakened Self).  But experiencing itself is not ultimate truth, its not the self knowledge of Self.  Neither is the heartbeat or the breath.  Again it seems like your trying to point to something that is experienced after a certain point called enlightenment, even though from my experience, experiences leads to awakening, but after that there isn't anything there that continues to prove ultimate truth is happening, other then one just knows who they are.

Edited November 13, 2018 by Mu_

[winterknight]

4 minutes ago, Mu_ said:

There are many things that don't come and go, one being experiencing itself, another is heartbeat, another is breath (speaking from the point of view of the un-awakened Self).  But experiencing itself is not ultimate truth, its not the self knowledge of Self.  Neither is the heartbeat or the breath.  Again it seems like your trying to point to something that is experienced after a certain point called enlightenment, even though from my experience, experiences leads to awakening, but after that there isn't anything there that continues to prove ultimate truth is happening, other then one just knows who they are.

No, breath can stop, and so can the heartbeat. I am not pointing to an ordinary experience. But being knows itself continuously and nondually.

Edited November 13, 2018 by winterknight

[Mu_]

3 minutes ago, winterknight said:

No, breath can stop, and so can the heartbeat. I am not pointing to an ordinary experience. But being knows itself continuously and nondually.

Well technically there are no seekers that are not breathing or have no heartbeat.  ok so what your saying is, understanding and knowledge that remain, not a tactile experience of oneness, expansion, or void/emptiness (these come and go).  Because for so long in the past I and I think many current seekers believe that the later is what is to be found and cultivated through practice and is held onto as attainments thinking that this is what it means to wake up and by holding or creating more of these they are more enlightened.  I'd have to go over Ramana and advita again, but was this what they were always trying to point to?

[graded24]

25 minutes ago, winterknight said:

It sounds like you were able to affect your mental states through some process of concentration.

It doesn't have much spiritual significance, unfortunately, sorry. As you correctly put it, the psychological self wasn't being affected.

But if it's cool -- enjoy it! Nothing wrong with that.

Going back to an earlier question of yours about how to know whether your realization is real or not... another question to ask is: does it come and go? Any experience that has a beginning and an end, that comes and goes -- isn't It. So any kind of mental transformation or change in your perceptions or thoughts or feelings, however spectacular... if it comes and goes, it is not the ultimate truth.

No I suspected as much that's why I stopped going in that direction. 

 

[winterknight]

3 minutes ago, Mu_ said:

Well technically there are no seekers that are not breathing or have no heartbeat.  ok so what your saying is, understanding and knowledge that remain, not a tactile experience of oneness, expansion, or void/emptiness (these come and go).  Because for so long in the past I and I think many current seekers believe that the later is what is to be found and cultivated through practice and is held onto as attainments thinking that this is what it means to wake up and by holding or creating more of these they are more enlightened.  I'd have to go over Ramana and advita again, but was this what they were always trying to point to?

There are no seekers who are not breathing generally, but in each moment one can either be breathing or not. You can stop your breath for a while. That means there is a differentiation in the experience. Breaths have beginnings and ends. 

The goal is actually not quite either understanding/knowledge (though that may be in the mind) nor a tactile experience... There is a very specific nondual, indescribable, "experience-that-is-not-an-experience" that is going on continuously, without the slightest tiniest pause ever. It feels like nothing at all, and yet it is absolutely perfect.

It's the clear and continuous recognition of this -- which can only happen by clearing away all the thoughts that usually hide it -- that constitutes the spiritual goal.

[Jack River]

9 minutes ago, winterknight said:

The goal is actually not quite either understanding/knowledge (though that may be in the mind) nor a tactile experience... There is a very specific nondual, indescribable, "experience-that-is-not-an-experience" that is going on continuously, without the slightest tiniest pause ever. It feels like nothing at all, and yet it is absolutely perfect.

It's the clear and continuous recognition of this -- which can only happen by clearing away all the thoughts that usually hide it -- that constitutes the spiritual goal.

This I can relate to most definitely. This non experience. It’s pure mystery. 

[Mu_]

14 minutes ago, winterknight said:

There are no seekers who are not breathing generally, but in each moment one can either be breathing or not. You can stop your breath for a while. That means there is a differentiation in the experience. Breaths have beginnings and ends. 

The goal is actually not quite either understanding/knowledge (though that may be in the mind) nor a tactile experience... There is a very specific nondual, indescribable, "experience-that-is-not-an-experience" that is going on continuously, without the slightest tiniest pause ever. It feels like nothing at all, and yet it is absolutely perfect.

It's the clear and continuous recognition of this -- which can only happen by clearing away all the thoughts that usually hide it -- that constitutes the spiritual goal.

Hmm we may have to leave it at that, because to me that sounds like one of the many infinite varieties/vantage points of Self that are always taking place, one being you and one being me (which are not different and yet are). 

What ever your point to though sounds nice, but again how can the noticing of something/or acknowledgement of something that you obviously  describee as continuous with no pause, yet isn't an experience.  Are we in semantic criss cross?  My definition of experience is fairly straightforward here.  If its noticed, its experience, if its dust mite biting you behind your ear, but you dont notice it, its not experienced.  Its taking place, but its not your experience.
So what are you saying?

Edited November 13, 2018 by Mu_

[Jack River]

3 minutes ago, Mu_ said:

If its noticed, its experience, 

Right. To recognize a thing means it was already known.

[Mu_]

@winterknight

Also when I use the word knowledge/understanding Im referring to a knowing.  Like if asked you is something happening, it would be obvious that something is happening.  You may call this something, Self, and I would agree, or not, but either way there is knowing of some sort that something is happening.