I am enlightened. Sincere seekers: ask me anything

[winterknight]

3 minutes ago, Preetom said:

So the idea of 'reflected consciousness' becomes redundant as well?

If we're talking absolute truth, yes.

[winterknight]

1 minute ago, Wisebaxter said:

So it's as if the sensations, or echos of an ego still remain, but you just become very detached from them and unaffected? 

You might say that. In vedanta they call it the "burnt rope ego." The ego appears, but it is rendered ineffectual.

[Preetom]

@winterknight

Is the effortless, dis-identified witnessing state sustained for you during almost all waking moment?

Is that a by-product of Enlightenment or is it something that needs to be trained consciously over and over again?

 

[winterknight]

Just now, Preetom said:

@winterknight

Is the effortless, dis-identified witnessing state sustained for you during almost all waking moment?

Is that a by-product of Enlightenment or is it something that needs to be trained consciously over and over again?

Any state comes and goes, or requires training. If you consider disidentified witnessing a state, then yes, it requires strenuous effort and continuous practice.

Enlightenment is to realize that the states themselves are not who you are. The very thought "this is just a state" is itself the problem. That thought has to go.

That said, from the seeker's standpoint, yes, certainly, it seems to require training and effort to discard that thought!

[Jack River]

@winterknight so when that continuity of conditioned movement(matter) is not the means to get to “the beyond” anymore, could we say that is a good foundation? Wouldn’t this prevent us from trying to move within the field of matter to go beyond matter? 

[Outer]

5 minutes ago, winterknight said:

It does know itself in sleep. The problem is that the only consciousness that you understand is waking and/or dreaming consciousness, so it's going to be very hard for you to comprehend how that could be the case.

The consciousness that you know and can conceive of is consciousness with a subject and an object -- "I know that." But the deeper consciousness is beyond that duality.

Again, either you have to actually practice self-inquiry and see for yourself what that means (that's the only real way), or if you want we can have an extended discussion about the intellectual framework in which this could be true. 

So is 'your' consciousness conscious of itself while "you're" asleep?

[winterknight]

6 minutes ago, Jack River said:

@winterknight so when that continuity of conditioned movement(matter) is not the means to get to “the beyond” anymore, could we say that is a good foundation? Wouldn’t this prevent us from trying to move within the field of matter to go beyond matter? 

I'm not sure I understand. 

3 minutes ago, Outer said:

So is 'your' consciousness conscious of itself while "you're" asleep?

That depends on the meaning of "you," (or "I") of course. That's where the ambiguity lies. If by "your" you mean the "you" of waking consciousness, then no. But there is a deeper "you" than that. 

Edited November 11, 2018 by winterknight

[Outer]

2 minutes ago, winterknight said:

That depends on the meaning of "you," (or "I") of course. That's where the ambiguity lies. If by "your" you mean the "you" of waking consciousness, then no. But there is a deeper "you" than that. 

So there's a deeper me than waking consciousness? A sort of objective consciousness?

P.S.

"Consciousness on-off switch discovered deep in brain"

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22329762-700-consciousness-on-off-switch-discovered-deep-in-brain/

 

[winterknight]

3 minutes ago, Outer said:

So there's a deeper me than waking consciousness? A sort of objective consciousness?

P.S.

"Consciousness on-off switch discovered deep in brain"

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22329762-700-consciousness-on-off-switch-discovered-deep-in-brain/

 

Yup. Thanks for the link.

[Jack River]

3 minutes ago, winterknight said:

I'm not sure I understand. 

As in seeing what limits “us” from going to that pure consciousness “state”. 

Seeing that we use means of thought/self (knowledge or the known) continually and unconsciously to try a go beyond the known to the unknown.. 

we seem to be attatched to the known and work within that field of the knowledge(the known). So every step we take is within that limit of duality. Am I somwhat making sense dude? 

[Preetom]

@winterknight

So from the seeker's perspective, do you prescribe that conscious effort to become Enlightened is a must?

Looking back, do you think you could dispel your seeker identity ever without putting any effort?

[i am I AM]

@Mikael89 A true nature can't, by its definition, be impermanent. Maybe to be your true nature means to remove the you that is other than the unchanging.

[Jack River]

10 minutes ago, Preetom said:

So from the seeker's perspective, do you prescribe that conscious effort to become Enlightened is a must?

 

Well it seems that the seeker is in that predicament because of this effort. Right? It seems that the seeker has always been seeking/using effort in one way or anohter.

Edited November 11, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

But the self inquiry method does imply effort as a means to end effort. 

[Pilgrim]

Why aren't we naturally wired to know the truth? Why do I have to spend 20+ years searching to find out who I am, when it should be obvious? Why isn't it obvious to everyone upon birth who we truly are if that is the truest form? And why does the majority of humans die not knowing who they are? What's the purpose of this life in human form? 

[winterknight]

11 minutes ago, Jack River said:

As in seeing what limits “us” from going to that pure consciousness “state”. 

Seeing that we use means of thought/self (knowledge or the known) continually and unconsciously to try a go beyond the known to the unknown.. 

we seem to be attatched to the known and work within that field of the knowledge(the known). So every step we take is within that limit of duality. Am I somwhat making sense dude? 

You seem to be bringing up the point again that you brought up before -- that by trying to work within duality, we seem to be perpetuating it. Is that what you're getting at?

11 minutes ago, Preetom said:

@winterknight

So from the seeker's perspective, do you prescribe that conscious effort to become Enlightened is a must?

Looking back, do you think you could dispel your seeker identity ever without putting any effort?

Yes, if you consider yourself a seeker, then you must put in effort -- either to inquire into the self, or to utterly surrender and accept whatever happens without question (the latter is a harder path). Even surrender will seem to take effort.

Looking back, there is no seeker and no dispelling of that identity. It's impossible to understand unless you see it for yourself.

13 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

The "real, permanent, unchanging love" has clearly totally abandoned me, and pretty much the whole world except a few enlightened humans.

How do you explain that?

It has not. That's a misconception that arises from the fact that you falsely identify yourself with your body and mind.

2 minutes ago, Pilgrim said:

Why aren't we naturally wired to know the truth? Why do I have to spend 20+ years searching to find out who I am, when it should be obvious? Why isn't it obvious to everyone upon birth who we truly are if that is the truest form? And why does the majority of humans die not knowing who they are? What's the purpose of this life in human form? 

Because you falsely identify with the "I" of the human body-mind. Humans don't exist. Only the Self exists. Walk the path and you will understand that all this time you have always been free and have never not known the truth.

[Preetom]

@Jack River

That's so true. Even the conventional desires and fears that the ego chases are full of effort. It's as if effort is ego's life function.

[Jack River]

2 minutes ago, Pilgrim said:

Why aren't we naturally wired to know the truth? Why do I have to spend 20+ years searching to find out who I am, when it should be obvious? Why isn't it obvious to everyone upon birth who we truly are if that is the truest form? And why does the majority of humans die not knowing who they are? What's the purpose of this life in human form? 

Seems thought transcends its own limit unconsciousnessly. Every step we take in a movement of incoherence. 

[Jack River]

3 minutes ago, winterknight said:

Is that what you're getting at?

Fosho. We seem to incoherently move within the conditioned field of matter. As in knowledge/memory or thought. Then we “the self” reacts to thought/emotion which activates this compulsion to attatch/identify and conform to that content/movement of thought. 

Edited November 11, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

4 minutes ago, Preetom said:

@Jack River

That's so true. Even the conventional desires and fears that the ego chases are full of effort. It's as if effort is ego's life function.

Defense mechanism fosho. I see fear and desire as one movement too. Do you see what I mean?