I am enlightened. Sincere seekers: ask me anything

[Preetom]

4 minutes ago, Jack River said:

It seems this is a method of matter(thought) to progressively change its own conditioning with its own conditioned pattern. 

could there be a way to bypass all that? 

This right here goes to the heart of the matter we are discussing.

The present conditioned mind IS the Absolute Reality. That 'knowing' element of the mind IS the Absolute Consciousness. The essence of the conditioned mind which is 'knowing' and the Absolute are the same.

It's just that this 'knowing' is mistakenly identified with conditioned movements. When this present conditioned mind is divested of all it's self-imposed and ignorant limitations, this very mind shines as the Absolute Self.

About bypassing, I don't think it would work permanently. If it did work, then everyone would become permanently Enlightened upon hearing these arguments for the first time. It only happens once in a blue moon when the devotee is ready and guru's Silence itself is enough to awaken.

Just like the pure mind went through time and identified with things, similarly it has to turn back and urwire this process...until it returns to it's original untainted state. 

Ramana Maharshi called it Samskaras or Vasanas (Mental tendencies). As long as these deep rooted tendencies are in place, permanent Realization won't happen.

[Jack River]

5 minutes ago, Preetom said:

it did work, then everyone would become permanently Enlightened upon hearing these arguments for the first time.

Well that’s the point too. Resistance/assumption/not starting with humility seems to prevent actual seeing/listening. We come into a conversation with the personal goal/reward which prevents total insight. 

The goa/end will prevent truth. Because truth is not fixed. And a goal reward seems to imply that truth “enlightenment” is. What I mean is to humility seems to imply that there is insight that being inspired by reward will bring about a fixed outcome. 

Edited November 11, 2018 by Jack River

[Preetom]

8 minutes ago, Jack River said:

Fosho. But is the pursuit of a breakthrough a response of thought which is the same mechanism that thinks, theorizes, and is motivated by the fantasy of that breakthrough?

 

6 minutes ago, Jack River said:

The pursuit can be seen as equally an act of rational conditioned thinking/achieving/projecting. 

Yes you're right. The process begins as the pursuit of the same conditioned movement. But when Self-inquiry matures, this movement is seen clearly. Long periods of no-mind and clarity are encountered. And in those silent, dis-identified waiting periods without any agenda somehow everything falls into place. It just clicks

[Preetom]

3 minutes ago, Jack River said:

Well that’s the point too. Resistance/assumption/not starting with humility seems to prevent actual seeing/listening. We come into a conversation with the personal goal/reward which prevents total insight. 

exactly! The purpose of Self-inquiry is to unwire those very resistance movements.

One cannot stop a conditioned movement with brute force by another movement. Both would be under the same conditioned movement.

That's why the teaching says, direct that movement into Self-inquiry and let it exhaust itself until....Clear seeing becomes the default state  

[winterknight]

1 hour ago, Pilgrim said:

But nearly every human does this. That is the default mode for us.. but if we are not what we think we are and in our truest form have always known the truth, why do we not know the truth in human form? It seems unnecessary to me to believe I am this "I", yet that's the case for most people.. why? 

The question makes assumptions which are not true. There are no humans. There are no people. But you will never be able to understand this unless you see it directly for yourself.

47 minutes ago, Mu_ said:

Just out of curiosity, would say within your awakening, that the self sense of who you would of refereed to yourself as in the past still arises as a sense of energy still and that you recognize it for what it is now knowing your true self, or has the energy of self completely disappeared as well?

Hehe. It's almost like the question "When did you stop beating your wife?" There's no good answer . 

The truth is that the entire way of looking at things in terms of the person I would have referred to myself as in the past is wrong. It's so wrong it cannot even be spoken about in a coherent way. I can neither say yes nor no to your question, really. It's something you will only fully understand if you walk the path.

46 minutes ago, youngshinzen said:

@winterknight How did you build up the necessary focus/alertness for self-enquiry? Certain diets, supplements, meditation techniques?

Mainly by aligning my actions with what I really wanted -- and it takes work to discover what you want. Often we are not clear about that.  Psychodynamic/psychoanalytic therapy and expressive writing were important in helping me do that. More here.

39 minutes ago, Jordan94 said:

@winterknight  Do you think it's a good idea to take nootropics to improve the meditaton practice ?

Don't know enough about nootropics to say, sorry. 

36 minutes ago, Ero said:

@winterknight

Do you feel understanding? When there's no distinction is there even something "to see through", or is it consciousness realising itself? Being itself? 

 

I know it's totally an intellectual whim, yet kinda feel its relevance for my next step as the seeker. 

When there is no distinction there is nothing to see through... it is simply being knowing itself.

 

Edited November 11, 2018 by winterknight

[Jack River]

4 minutes ago, Preetom said:

exactly! The purpose of Self-inquiry is to unwire those very resistance movements.

No I totlay understand dude. But what if the “student” was already aware by “self” understanding that his moving towards reward would prevent an ending of conditioned momentum? You see what I mean? 

Edited November 11, 2018 by Jack River

[Jack River]

Again it’s not an understanding via verbal/intellectual. It’s a seeing which is its own action which brings a stop to that conditioned momentum. 

[Preetom]

@Jack River

Yes in that case, the 'student' is definitely more matured. That clear witnessing itself will do whatever needs to be done. For such a 'student', no more rationalizing or theory is necessary. Just silently observing. 

Self-inquiry leads to such a 'state' for the lack of a better term.

[winterknight]

1 minute ago, Mikael89 said:

Will "I" sooner or later "wake up" even if I drop all search for enlightenment?

(Important question for me.)

Yes. Sooner or later. May not be this lifetime, however.

[Jack River]

1 minute ago, Preetom said:

@Jack River

Yes in that case, the 'student' is definitely more matured. That clear witnessing itself will do whatever needs to be done. For such a 'student', no more rationalizing or theory is necessary. Just silently observing. 

Self-inquiry leads to such a 'state' for the lack of a better term.

which is why maybe starting with an understanding of self/though would create a foundation of what not to do. It wouldn’t be a choosing what not to do, but the absence of choice. Awareness would see that choice is the conditioned pattern. We would see that all movement of self is a movement that resist what is. Which means humility would be at essence non movement forward/backward to attain/resist..

As in no goal, no assumption which is a reaction that arises from the thought/emotion cycle. An assumption that there is such a thing as truth/enlightenment would not be concluded upon. There would be absolutely no movement towards or away from what is the case. 

Also known as no psychological becoming/time. It’s a genuine starting with I DONT KNOW, let’s find out. Right dude. 

You see in this we are not looking for an answer but are only staying with what is as the problem. Thought/self doesn’t seem to work that way. It always wants move away from what is to what it desires. Only that desire is a product of resistance/avoidance of the problem. 

[Jack River]

7 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

Will "I" sooner or later get enlightened even if I drop all search for enlightenment?

(Important question for me.)

The more we depend on time the longer consciousness stays at the place it is. Depending on time is resistance itself. Thinking evolution or time will end this unenlightend state is what sustains that state of divison/conflict. 

Edited November 11, 2018 by Jack River

[wavydude]

12 hours ago, winterknight said:

The greatest hiccup was feeling a lack of motivation. Only much later did I realize that this very lack of motivation was a giant pointer to the Self. But i had to go through all the things I mentioned above to understand that.

Would you say that lack of motivation come from not pursuing your true desire ? 

[Preetom]

@Jack River

haha this is what self-inquiry is for. The default error the 'student' makes that he is a seeker and he now has to get a reward through Enlightenment.

Self-inquiry doesn't say, go chase the Truth or God or Enlightenment. In fact, Self-inquiry talks about none of these things. 

It just instructs to find out this 'I' who is a seeker. And upon inquiry, it is realized that there was never such an ego self. Thus clear seeing of what is prevails 

Edited November 11, 2018 by Preetom

[winterknight]

2 minutes ago, wavydude said:

Would you say that lack of motivation come from not pursuing your true desire ? 

Yes. There were many things about which I was in denial, and I had to uncover those things one by one. What I was telling myself that I wanted in my career, in my love life, in my creative life, and in my spiritual life: all were wrong.

[Jack River]

11 minutes ago, Preetom said:

It just instructs to find out this 'I' who is a seeker. And upon inquiry, it is realized that there was never such an ego self. Thus clear seeing of what is prevails 

I feel ya. But nevertheless is it a means to an end? Is it reward based? That's the thing. 

In most cases it seems that the self is not interested in the unknown or what is, as in starting with true humility, which means no projecting according to its own content/movement of time. But is searching for a way out of the current state they are in. It’s a searching for security/safety. Namean dude?

Edited November 11, 2018 by Jack River

[Preetom]

@Jack River

I've found that any genuine inquiry is a perfect expression of humility. It promotes a degree of openness to whatever is present. Chasing and avoiding stuff are not genuine inquiry. They are ego's default movements. 

And also a genuine inquiry can't begin if this movement isn't seen properly  

[DrewNows]

@winterknightyou may have answered this but how have your relationships changed? Are you more sociable and does seeing through people’s psychological conflicts make you more popular to be around? Or even come to for help?

it seems to be the human condition to create division and fragmentation from within.  How do you see this changing? Assumably a gradual shift or could this happen as fast as it can happen at the individual level ? 

[Jack River]

4 minutes ago, Preetom said:

@Jack River

I've found that any genuine inquiry is a perfect expression of humility. It promotes a degree of openness to whatever is present. Chasing and avoiding stuff are not genuine inquiry. They are ego's default movements. 

And also a genuine inquiry can't begin if this movement isn't seen properly  

Fosho my dude?

This genuine investigation/enquiry seems to be the determining factor. Unless there's that freedom, resistance calls the shots. 

Edited November 11, 2018 by Jack River

[winterknight]

5 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

@winterknightyou may have answered this but how have your relationships changed? Are you more sociable and does seeing through people’s psychological conflicts make you more popular to be around? Or even come to for help?

it seems to be the human condition to create division and fragmentation from within.  How do you see this changing? Assumably a gradual shift or could this happen as fast as it can happen at the individual level ? 

Relationships are easier. I'm more able to be open and give more, since I have more myself, and I expect and require less of other people. On the other hand, because I need people less, there is in a way less reason to seek them out.

As far as the human condition, I have no idea what's going to happen. Ultimately whether there is division or not in this world is in a way irrelevant; that's all merely a superficial appearance... the eternal peace and unity is what really matters.

[Mu_]

@winterknight

I think we have completely different vocabularies, understandings and experiences of what awakening is.  Perhaps you've lost the notion of self, or the memory of how you thought, seen, acted, enjoyed life from your prior perspectives.  Perhaps this notion of self/energy and its content/experience of feeling/thought/personality didn't appear as illusion to you at one point and are just taking place for you unquestioned, which is fine, I dont know, but it makes me curious.  Often spiritual teachers/enlightened individuals refer to this and some say it completely dissolves, and others say it remains but its known as the small self in relation to the big self (all again notions/labels used to describe awakening).  Some even say that there is no notion of being and just talking/acting/feeling/seeing is happening, again labels to describe.  Either way I was just curious.

Edited November 11, 2018 by Mu_