How To Know Reality Doesn't Exist

[Nahm]

@Anna1 wanna see my impression of a void?

[Ananta]

3 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Anna1 wanna see my impression of a void?

To me it's fullness, but yeah, go for it!

[Nahm]

@Anna1 sorry.....that was the whole joke. Cause if you look in front of you right now, its actually a void, and me.  In hindsight, it was not really funny. At all. 

[Ananta]

1 minute ago, Nahm said:

@Anna1 sorry.....that was the whole joke. Cause if you look in front of you right now, its actually a void, and me.  In hindsight, it was not really funny. At all. 

Lol, here I thought you were going to post some amazing pic of what you perceive as the .."void"...hehe.

Seems many on here use Buddhist terms- nothing, void, emptiness. 

Where I'd say- whole, complete, full, non-dual, attribute-less awareness.

Just an observation...

[Shanmugam]

7 minutes ago, Anna1 said:

Lol, here I thought you were going to post some amazing pic of what you perceive as the .."void"...hehe.

Seems many on here use Buddhist terms- nothing, void, emptiness. 

Where I'd say- whole, complete, full, non-dual, attribute-less awareness.

Just an observation...

Actually, Buddhist term Sunyata (translated as emptiness but it is actually intended to mean 'devoid of attributes') is same as Nirguna Brahman (Brahman devoid of attributes).. Buddha was not preaching any kind of nihilism, but it is just people's misunderstanding.

Here is a beautiful piece by Osho, who elaborates it here:

"For centuries emptiness has been condemned.

"Emptiness is beautiful.

"And the foolish people have been telling you. "The empty mind is the devil's workshop." The empty mind is God's workshop! The occupiedmind is the devil's workshop.

"But one has to be truly empty. Just being lazy does not mean that you are empty; not doing anything does not mean that you are empty. Thousands of thoughts are clamoring inside. You may be lazy on the outside, but inside much work is going on. Many walls are being created, new prisons are being prepared, so that when you get fed up with the old you can enter into the new. Old chains may break any time so you are creating new chains in case the old chains break; then you will feel very empty.

"Once in a while it happens naturally – because it is your very nature to be free. So once in a while, in spite of you... seeing a sunset, suddenly you forget all your desires. You forget all lust, all hankering for pleasure. The sunset is so beautiful so overwhelming, that you forget the past and the future; only the present remains. You are so one with the moment, there is no observer and no observed. The observer becomes the observed. You are not separate from the sunset.

"You are bridged; in such a communion you come into a clearing, and because of the clearing you feel joyous . But again you are back into the black hole for the simple reason that coming out into the clearing you need courage to remain in the empty sky.

"That's what I call sannyas.

"This courage I call sannyas – not escaping but coming into the clearing, seeing the sky unclouded, listening to the songs of the birds without distorting. And then again and again you are becoming more and more attuned with the emptiness and the joy of being empty. Slowly slowly, you see that emptiness is not just emptiness; it is fullness, but a fullness of which you have never been aware, a fullness of which you have never tasted.

"So in the beginning it looks empty; in the end it is full, totally full, overflowingly full. It is full of peace, it is full of silence, it is full of light." 

-  The Dhammapada: The Way of the Buddha, Vol. 10, Talk #1

[Ananta]

10 minutes ago, Shanmugam said:

Buddhist term Sunyata (translated as emptiness but it is actually intended to mean 'devoid of attributes') is same as Nirguna Brahman (Brahman devoid of attributes)..

Good to know.... how many that use the term on this forum know this? ...Dunno?

[Ananta]

@Shanmugam when peeps on here say it's "nothing", I find myself saying. No, it's not "nothing", it's no-thing. Drives me batty..lol. 

[Joseph Maynor]

3 hours ago, Anna1 said:

Lets keep it really simple. I'm certain of two things, I'm aware and I exist. I know I exist, because I experience, but I also know that experience is ultimately an illusion. When I negate all phenomenal objects, including thoughts, feelings, emotions. "I AM" no-thing, I just AM.

Your belief that experience is an illusion is not the Truth.  I think you  go too far there.  For somebody who claims experience is an illusion, you tend to hold strong beliefs, stronger than most others on here.  Your real default position is that you know quite a lot.

 

Edited July 22, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Ananta]

1 minute ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Your belief that experience is an illusion is not the Truth.  

The key word in my sentence was that ...."ultimately"....it's illusion (Mithya).

Reason being, Brahman only sees itself, from its perspective nothing is happening. 

From the "apparent" person's perspective there are indeed "others", objects and a world...they just aren't ultimately real. 

[Nahm]

@Joseph Maynor I am awareness. Nahm has experiences.

[Shanmugam]

1 minute ago, Anna1 said:

Good to know.... how many that use the term on this forum know this? ...Dunno?

Don't know.. But I think this wrong idea is popular in English speaking world only, and the idea probably came from India. Buddhism disappeared in India because Buddha rejected Vedas. .Most of the Buddhists live in China, Japan, Tibet Burma, Thailand and other South Asian countries.

Buddha was born sometime during 600 BC and Upanishads were composed about the same time (probably between 800 BC - 600 BC). Many people don't know that even upanishads were rebellion against vedas. Vedas which existed during Buddha's time only covered ritualistic portion.

Later on Upanishads were also added as a part of Vedas, because the Upanishads conveyed the teachings in the disguise of vedic terms.. If you read the Upanishads you will notice this. The authors were very clever. Those days no one can say anything against Vedas. It was similar to the situation that was faced by Jesus. ( He said things like 'kingdom of god is within you', 'I am (brahman) the truth, the way and life" etc while at the same time conforming all he said by citing verses from Torah. He was crucified in spite of this). 

Read this verse from Vedas:

"To the Gandhâris, the Mâgavants, the Angas, and the Magadhas, we deliver over the takman, like a servant, like a treasure!"

Full text here: http://www.adishakti.org/pdf_files/atharva_veda_(sacred-texts.com).pdf

The above hymn from Atharva veda is addressed to diseases.. They are asking diseases to go to the people living in regions like Gandhâris, the Mâgavants, the Angas, and the Magadhas etc... These are names of individual kingdoms. Magadha was the kingdom where Buddha preached his entire life. And since people lived in those areas were skeptical about vedas, the whole hymn was composed to show the hatred.

Here is the map of Vedic India:

 

Vedas are neither infallible nor eternal. But I think Shankara was in the same situation to present his ideas in accordance to Vedas. That is why I think he based his whole commentaries on the premise that Vedas are infallible. You will notice this stated by Shankara a lot in his commentaries.

Of course, no one can be exactly sure about the past, but this is my best guess based on what I studied so far about the history of Indian philosophy,

 

[Ananta]

@Joseph Maynor Don't forget that for all the many people spouting they don't exist. I'm saying, yes, you do exist, as you experience, it's just that it's not "ultimately" real. I've said this countless times on this forum.

Also, in another thread I recently told you-

The world is illusion

Brahman alone is real

The world IS Brahman

~Ramana Maharshi 

Edited July 22, 2017 by Anna1

[Dodo]

6 hours ago, Nahm said:

@Joseph Maynor and how do you know that?

 

@Dodo You are awesome!... and, who is this God you mentioned?

@Anna1 Nurses are angels from heaven! 

 

Thanks Nahm, you are awesomer tho! God is emptiness

[mp22]

13 hours ago, Nahm said:

@Edvard There is only one way. You are illusory. You are nothing.  When you accept that, you are enlightened. Everything else snaps right into place. 

 

Moojy says in one of his videos that we are a blend of ego/mind and consciousness. That seems to be a bit more concrete than "nothing"? and what is an illusion? what does it contrast with since nothing is real and even the only thing "real" is nothing? 

[123456789]

13 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

 And when you do, you realize, it is Nothing, and identical to the "internal world".

@Leo Gura What do you mean by nothing?

[Principium Nexus]

@Leo Gura Is enlightenment the emptyness before one tries to grasp/construct/attain a perspective based on presumed labels that are not the things they resemble?

You made a very nice example regarding the picture box with pizza. I realize now that this symbolic material representation also applies to mental symbolism (which are concepts/things).

What I see now is that most people who try to get enlightened, try to eat as many pizza pictures as they can, but never actual eat the real thing. Thoughts and thinking is only symbolic, direct experience is truth, when one begins to understand this one has stopped seeking.

 

[Ananta]

5 hours ago, mp22 said:

Moojy says in one of his videos that we are a blend of ego/mind and consciousness. That seems to be a bit more concrete than "nothing"?

I wrote this in reply to a Vedanta teacher-

"So, here are my thoughts, it seems that since the mind is inert and the Self doesn’t have a mind (is not an entity), neither by themselves could be enlightened. Being that the Self is not ignorant of it’s nature and the mind can’t know anything on it’s own. So, it must be the "combination" of mind illumined by awareness, that then is ignorant or Self realized and it’s the mind that benefits from Self realization, however the “benefit” is to realize, it’s really the Self/awareness and it (the mind/body/sense complex) is only an “apparent” manifestation of awareness itself. So, without the combination (mind/awareness), there wouldn’t even be “Self realization” or Moksha at all, as there would be no need for either one."

Teachers reply-

"You got it"