What is depression meta-physically?

[Salvijus]

31 minutes ago, LastThursday said:

Only if the option is available. You can't choose what you don't have. 

How you choose to respond to any given situation is always an option that is available to everyone. You can never be without the option to respond. And it's your relationship (response) to a situation that determines the quality of your experience, not the situation itself.

Edited 11 hours ago by Salvijus

[Salvijus]

@Judy2 🌟 

[Carl-Richard]

15 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

How you choose to respond to any given situation is always an option that is available to everyone. You can never be without the option to respond. And it's your relationship (response) to a situation that determines the quality of your experience, not the situation itself.

If you're standing on train tracks and there is a train coming towards you, you always have the choice to accept the reality of the train smashing into you. But will you? Depression is from the perspective of the person experiencing it like a train crashing into you in slow motion. Somebody coming along and shouting "accept it!", even if it is theoretically a possible thing to do, is most likely going to be perceived as a joke by the person.

[LastThursday]

18 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

How you choose to respond to any given situation is always an option that is available to everyone. You can never be without the option to respond. And it's your relationship (response) to a situation that determines the quality of your experience, not the situation itself.

You're right in a philosophical sense. But you're conflating the ability to choose with the option to choose. Being depressed takes away the ability to choose, much like a tired person finds it hard to choose anything other than being tired. Being depressed also puts you in a state where you become blind to the options available to you - hence the need for external intervention. Much mental illness is like this: you could choose from an outside perspective, but you don't or can't from an inside perspective.

[Basman]

Depression is a fixation on how life happens to you in a negative way that you can't control. Its pessimistic and sad.

Its your mind which is depressing you. That's why being active helps, because it puts your mind elsewhere. 

[LastThursday]

1 hour ago, Basman said:

Depression is a fixation on how life happens to you in a negative way that you can't control. Its pessimistic and sad.

Its your mind which is depressing you. That's why being active helps, because it puts your mind elsewhere. 

This is only part of the picture. Depression is a systemic problem. It involves the mind, physiology, hormones and environment. These all feedback on each other maintaining the depression in a kind of equilibrium. Exercise helps because it pushes the system out of equilibrium, but so does affecting hormone levels (e.g. taking SSRi's), or talking through the mental aspects (therapy). 

[Someone here]

Depression could be physical due to chemical imbalances in the brain , which is the most common form.

or it can be caused by tragedies in one’s life , like losing a loved one. The second common one .

or it can be seasonal. Like depression during winter . Which is the least common one.

idk what is meant by depression “metaphysically “. But it’s an interesting concept to contemplate. I would guess something like existential crisis?

Edited 7 hours ago by Someone here

[LordFall]

Lack of alignment in your life or feeling of consistent progress towards the reality you want. Pretty simple really. 

[Ramanujan]

get a hoby. become so good in it , that you enter flow state often. one of the way to get out of  depression

also if you develop  your life and become a successful man , you wont enter depression

[Judy2]

4 hours ago, Salvijus said:

@Judy2 🌟 

[Salvijus]

5 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

If you're standing on train tracks and there is a train coming towards you, you always have the choice to accept the reality of the train smashing into you. But will you? Depression is from the perspective of the person experiencing it like a train crashing into you in slow motion. Somebody coming along and shouting "accept it!", even if it is theoretically a possible thing to do, is most likely going to be perceived as a joke by the person.

All events are inherently neutral. It's the meaning and value that you choose to give to the events that make you happy or miserable. It's not something that happens to you from the outside.  It's self generated by choice alone. 

5 hours ago, LastThursday said:

You're right in a philosophical sense. But you're conflating the ability to choose with the option to choose. Being depressed takes away the ability to choose, much like a tired person finds it hard to choose anything other than being tired.

Happiness is really the effortless most natural choice. You don't need to have any super human abilities to choose freedom. It's the effort to resist happiness that is exhausting. Paradoxically sometimes people who are really tired of depression end up dropping it. They just say: "fuck it, I'm tired of caring and worrying about all this bs, I'm gonna go dance instead" and volia, they are free. But most people believe their bs is too important to let go off, so they choose to continue suffering. 

5 hours ago, LastThursday said:

Being depressed also puts you in a state where you become blind to the options available to you

It's the other way around. It's not the depression that makes you blind. Rather it's the blindness that makes you depressed to begin with. 

5 hours ago, LastThursday said:

hence the need for external intervention.

That can be helpful indeed. To inquire with them and to help them realize where they're choosing unwittingly to cling onto something that doesn't serve them. 

Edited 5 hours ago by Salvijus

[Carl-Richard]

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

Depression could be physical due to chemical imbalances in the brain , which is the most common form.

Sources needed.

[Someone here]

14 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Sources needed.

No, they aren’t needed . You study psychology. It’s well known that “depression “ as a clinical diagnosis has to do with with imbalances of things like Serotonin and dopamine in the brain .

[Joseph Maynor]

Kinda true, but life will deliver you plenty of things that are not enjoyable.  Masking that only goes so far.  Exercise is great if you can get into it.  

[Carl-Richard]

3 hours ago, Someone here said:

No, they aren’t needed . You study psychology. It’s well known that “depression “ as a clinical diagnosis has to do with with imbalances of things like Serotonin and dopamine in the brain .

I also know that serotonin and dopamine are related to things like perceived status, autonomy, control, and that merely increasing levels of these things in the brain while they can decrease some symptoms, don't usually go to the root of the issue. That depression is most often simply an "imbalance in neurotransmitters" due to random genetic variation is a myth and a simplistic way of understanding physiological systems.

All bodies are embedded within an environment and interact with that environment, undertake actions in that environment, and your brain chemistry is a reflection of that. Serotonin and dopamine track extremely directly to things like bodily movement and facilitation and impeding of such movement. An organism that feels impeded in its movement will reflect this in its dopamine and serotonin levels. Depression can in very many ways be looked at as an impeding of movement, especially when that movement is supposed to originate from the person, hence the notions of autonomy and control.

On the flip side, if you increase for example dopamine levels artificially (through drugs) or through for example nutrition in people with depression, they might actually develop another problem: obsessive compulsive disorder and general anxiety. You move from being helpless and perhaps hopeless to being proactive, but everything is seen as a problem to be fixed, everything is seen as negative and as a threat. Because if you haven't fixed the underlying issues that cause the feeling of lack of control, you'll still experience that feeling of lack of control, just while being very active about trying to fix it.

Fixing organically the sources of lack of feeling of control will increase serotonin and dopamine levels, and the behavior that happens as a response will be in line with the goals and wishes of the person. The dopamine and serotonin will not be used as way the organism turns against itself. If your organism is in a state of disorder and conflict, increasing the energy levels of that conflict might simply give you that: more dynamic and tumultuous conflict.

Edited 1 hour ago by Carl-Richard

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

I also know that serotonin and dopamine are related to things like perceived status, autonomy, control, and that merely increasing levels of these things in the brain while they can decrease some symptoms, don't usually go to the root of the issue. That depression is most often simply an "inbalance in neurotransmitters" due to random genetic variation is a myth and a simplistic way of understanding physiological systems.

All bodies are embedded with an environment and interact with that environment, undertake actions in that environment, and your brain chemistry is a reflection of that. Serotonin and dopamine track extremely directly to things like bodily movement and facilitation and impeding of such movement. An organism that feels impeded in its movement will reflect this in its dopamine and serotonin levels. Depression can in very many ways be looked at as an impeding of movement, especially when that movement is supposed to originate from the person, hence the notions of autonomy and control.

On the flip side, if you increase for example dopamine levels artificially (through drugs) or through for example nutrition in people with depression, they might actually develop another problem: obsessive compulsive disorder and general anxiety. You move from being helpless and perhaps hopeless to being proactive, but everything is seen as a problem to be fixed, everything is seen as negative and as a threat. Because if you haven't fixed the underlying issues that cause the feeling of lack of control, you'll still experience that feeling of lack of control, just while being very active about trying to fix it.

Fixing organically the sources of lack of feeling of control will increase serotonin and dopamine levels, and the behavior that happens as a response will be in line with the goals and wishes of the person. The dopamine and serotonin will not be used as way the organism turns against itself. If your organism is in a state of disorder and conflict, increasing the energy levels of that conflict might simply give you that: more dynamic and tumultuous conflict.

Thank you for sharing this information. 

[Basman]

7 hours ago, LastThursday said:

This is only part of the picture. Depression is a systemic problem. It involves the mind, physiology, hormones and environment. These all feedback on each other maintaining the depression in a kind of equilibrium. Exercise helps because it pushes the system out of equilibrium, but so does affecting hormone levels (e.g. taking SSRi's), or talking through the mental aspects (therapy). 

I've heard a bunch about being chemically depressed and shit. I'm not sure if I entirely buy it. Or maybe its just relatively rare. I believe it to be mostly a skill issue myself. Just stop being depressed bro.

[Carl-Richard]

10 minutes ago, Basman said:

I've heard a bunch about being chemically depressed and shit. I'm not sure if I entirely buy it. Or maybe its just relatively rare. I believe it to be mostly a skill issue myself. Just stop being depressed bro.

You can definitely get yourself there by taking chemicals: I one time took very big doses of magnesium bisglycinate and Vitamin E at the same time (odd combo, I was testing out new supplements during that time), and I was taking my after-breakfast walk and I felt like I had become a zombie, like I had lost all life force.

You can also get yourself there by simply not getting enough of the right nutrients. For example vitamin D and B vitamins have a very central impact on mood and energy levels.