Frame Control: how to effectively filter out good women

[Natasha Tori Maru]

... when you don't understand wtf you are doing

Certainty is NOT a proxy for strength and disagreements aren't a dominance contest. It is a nice way to invalidate first person knowledge and creates a wonderful little self-sealing psychological model. Mind reading, rewarding one's own projection, discouraging honest and genuine curiosity. Bad frame control makes any sort of repair process difficult while suppressing reciprocal emotions. Causing nothing more than misunderstanding and division. The opposite of connection - what relationships are all about.

It is the essence of performative masculinity. Nothing screams "low on the totem pole" more. 

It also selects for women who tolerate being overridden (bad boundaries and sense of self). You push way women who value maturity over hierarchy, women who can distinguish confidence from rigidity, women who don't need a man to tell them who they are, women who don't reward status games & appreciate being challenged but not overridden. Women that want to be encountered and not just emotionally dissected - women who want to be met with emotional intimacy. Women who genuinely find vulnerability more attractive that invulnerability.

Good frame holding doesn't require you to actually control someone else's frame.

 

[LordFall]

I agree, some guys I know are very stubborn and just refuse to back down and to me I don't experience it as confident more like cognitively limited and a bit dull.

Delusional confidence is only a virtue to a point, it hits it's ceiling quite quickly. 

[Joseph Maynor]

I hate the frame control concept in dating.  It is awful.  

[Rishabh R]

@Natasha Tori Maru I don't understand frame control but I appreciate last lines of your post.

Edited 3 hours ago by Rishabh R

[aurum]

I think of it like frame gravity.

You don't need to control anything. You just care about truth.

Truth has a gravity to it.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

1 hour ago, Rishabh R said:

@Natasha Tori Maru I don't understand frame control but I appreciate last lines of your post.

There might be some gentleman around here who know about how it works in a beneficial way

Thinking of maybe @aurum

As someone on the receiving end of it done poorly - it feels like someone trying to force control and transmits low intelligence, stubbornness and insecurity.

Edited 1 hour ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[Natasha Tori Maru]

2 minutes ago, aurum said:

I think of it like frame gravity.

You don't need to control anything. You just care about truth.

Truth has a gravity to it.

There he is

Appreciate the input 

[aurum]

1 hour ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I hate the frame control concept in dating.  It is awful.  

Control is a problematic way of thinking about it, but frame itself is useful as a concept.

I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[aurum]

It's ironic because a lot of people who talk about frame control also care about male leadership.

But a man who cannot take feedback and adjust is arguably way more of a dangerous leader than one that can. 

Trump is the perfect example. Trump has insane frame control, but he does it by completely blocking out truth and trying to distort reality.

Trump is like the Sith Lord of frame 

[LordFall]

This is a quick video that showcases an easy way to understand frame control. Inducement meaning seducing someone into your way of thinking instead of gaslighting or bullying them into it.

A good healthy example of frame control is your girlfriend coming home from work in a bad moon and starting to vent and ramble about her day. You bring her in for cuddles on the couch, tickle her and makeout with her and make her forget all about the worries of the day and bring her into your grounded masculine playful and warm masculine frame. 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

In the autobiography of Steve Jobs, people around him said that he creates a "reality distortion field".

His narrative was so strong that people believed it, even if it made no sense and wasn't real. He had a strong, powerful, compelling narrative, and many people around him accepted it as reality.

This is a type of frame control that doesn't use overt coercion - although this is a description of an interpersonal effect and not necessarily a deliberate frame control technique he consciously employed. I think he just did it.

Edited 2 hours ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[Ulax]

Frame control is like CGI.

People always complain about CGI because you only spot the bad CGI and never the good CGI.

[Rishabh R]

1 hour ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

As someone on the receiving end of it done poorly - it feels like someone trying to force control and transmits low intelligence, stubbornness and insecurity.

Yup it happened to me and I saw majority of people doing it instead of practicing truth or honesty or vulnerability .

Edited 1 hour ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[Raze]

This sounds like being stubborn. That’s not the same as being in frame. 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

3 minutes ago, Raze said:

This sounds like being stubborn. That’s not the same as being in frame. 

 

2 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

... when you don't understand wtf you are doing

 

[Miguel1]

Instead of Frame Controlling, you should have a Strong Frame.

It’s very different. The former is try-hard, the latter is strenght.

Edited 1 hour ago by Miguel1

[Jirh]

1. Most pickup dudes aren't looking for long term commitment. They just want to have sex as quickly, frequently, and cheaply as possible. Frame control is perfect for that.

2. Frame control is the masculine version of shit testing. They're both toxic strategies that guarantee your partner is a desperate doormat.

3. I don't think it's always performative. Some men are naturally dominant, and it fits their personality perfectly.

4. I appreciate you looking into this stuff. It's refreshing reading from an intelligent woman instead of douchebag men.

[Jirh]

1 hour ago, aurum said:

I think of it like frame gravity.

You don't need to control anything. You just care about truth.

Truth has a gravity to it.

 

1 hour ago, aurum said:

It's ironic because a lot of people who talk about frame control also care about male leadership.

 

But a man who cannot take feedback and adjust is arguably way more of a dangerous leader than one that can. 

 

Trump is the perfect example. Trump has insane frame control, but he does it by completely blocking out truth and trying to distort reality.

 

Trump is like the Sith Lord of frame 

What a load of nonsense!

Last time I disagreed with you was about the burdens of leadership. Those burdens are not consequences of truth, they're consequences of performance/lying.

Truth is light, almost weightless. The opposite of frame control.

A truly dominant person who's not performing will not be burdened by leadership. They will feel aligned and at home.

Edited 1 hour ago by Jirh

[Zenterus]

Agreed, but you have to be bad at something before you get good and, effectively, habitualize it into your being. 

Now, I know a lot of guys who are just a headache to talk to because of their over-the-top frame control, who aren't even aware of the concept and thus arent trying to improve on it. Those are the worst!

I knew a guy once who had a very strong and loud voice and would use it to steamroll everyone in conversation. He would talk over you, interrupt you and effectively silence you because you cant even hear yourself speak when he speaks. It was annoying as fuck.

Saw him a couple years later though and he seemed a lot more chill, thank God.

[Jirh]

Most people in politics exhibit a lot of effective frame control. It's a pillar of diplomacy. It's a way of dancing around difficult topics confidently without offending others or openly/directly opposing different points of view.

Edited 32 minutes ago by Jirh