Frame Control: how to effectively filter out good women

[Ulax]

I am lucky I had good mentors on my way to frame control mastery.

I see many who struggle with the concept though. If they are good people then I feel sorry for them. If they are bad people then I am happy they struggle with the skill.

[aurum]

12 minutes ago, Jirh said:

Those burdens are not consequences of truth, they're consequences of performance/lying.

Both are possible.

Performance and truth are not mutually exclusive.

[Jirh]

@aurum

I don't think so.

I think truth is authentic, and authenticity is the opposite of performance.

[aurum]

4 minutes ago, Jirh said:

@aurum

I don't think so.

I think truth is authentic, and authenticity is the opposite of performance.

Truth is not the same thing as authenticity.

It's not possible to cleanly distinguish between the authenticity / performance binary.

Truth is meta.

[Jirh]

4 minutes ago, aurum said:

It's not possible to cleanly distinguish between the authenticity / performance binary.

It is the easiest thing to distinguish for the one doing it. You are aware of yourself and your actions and motivations. You know when you are being authentic or performing. That's what matters, not what others think. The fact that you argued this suggests that you're frequently performing for others.

[Raze]

Frame is not about being right or getting your way.

It’s about who is more seeking to fit in with the other. 

[aurum]

17 minutes ago, Jirh said:

It is the easiest thing to distinguish for the one doing it. You are aware of yourself and your actions and motivations. You know when you are being authentic or performing. That's what matters, not what others think. The fact that you argued this suggests that you're frequently performing for others.

You can make the distinction practically. It might be useful at times.

But ultimately the distinction has to collapse.

[Joseph Maynor]

It is not frame control, it is frame interaction.  It is an interplay.  

[Jirh]

1 hour ago, aurum said:

You can make the distinction practically. It might be useful at times.

But ultimately the distinction has to collapse.

No, you don't get it. You have a dogmatic belief about this topic. Authenticity is not performance, and it will never be.

Authenticity is something you'd do regardless of what other people think or say. You'd do it for free, just because you enjoy it. You'd do it when you're alone when nobody's watching.

Hobbies are clear examples of authentic activities. You're doing something for the sake of it. Not for other people. Unless you find a way to twist hobbies into means for social approval.

Work can be authentic, even though most people are not working authentic jobs. An authentic job is something you'd do for free, but you're happy that you're getting recognized and paid for it. Motivation is the main differentiator. The difference between an authentic job and a performative job is that you'd still do and enjoy the authentic job even if you lose your job, you'd still do what you like doing for yourself, for free.

Notice, I'm not saying it's easy to distinguish for others. There are a lot of cases where people seem completely authentic in their performance. But that means nothing. Deep down, their motivation is social approval. That's what performance essentially is. Someone who performs for an audience.

But it's easy to distinguish for yourself when there's no audience. An eagle hunts not for an audience, but for itself. That is the compass. The motivation behind the act.

"Are you doing what you're doing because that's who you truly are or because that's just a role you're playing?". That's the question.

Edited 3 hours ago by Jirh

[Miguel1]

Real authenticity cannot be performative, by definition.

You can perform authenticity, but that’s fake.

[Jirh]

16 minutes ago, Miguel1 said:

Real authenticity cannot be performative, by definition.

You can perform authenticity, but that’s fake.

Exactly! 💯

Acting is an example of performing authenticity. We enjoy it, even though we know it's fake.

(I know it's loosely related to topic, but it's an interesting example)

Edited 49 minutes ago by Jirh

[Rishabh R]

@Miguel1 I think that the marker of authenticity, vulnerability is initial nervousness and expressing yourself despite it as compared to performative authenticity which doesn't involves actual risk or nervousness .