Professor Dave goes off on Destiny and Israel 🇮🇱

[Nivsch]

16 minutes ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

This is an actual election ad.

https://x.com/QudsNen/status/2094364790244217180

At least they were fair and said "far-right"

Edited 23 hours ago by Nivsch

[Husseinisdoingfine]

43 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

At least they were fair and said "far-right"

I don't speak Hebrew, is that what was actually said in the ad?

[Nivsch]

@Husseinisdoingfine I meant to the page's post.

Edited 22 hours ago by Nivsch

[hundreth]

1 hour ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

This is an actual election ad.

https://x.com/QudsNen/status/2094364790244217180

What a piece of shit this guy is....

[Karmadhi]

1 hour ago, hundreth said:

What a piece of shit this guy is....

We can agree on that  

[Sandroew]

@Leo Gura @Leo Gura Isnt promoting and pushing leftist ideology the next step in development ?

It doesnt sit with me right that continuing neo-liberalism, but just better is what tier 2 politics is.

I understand that there is nuance to this and Israel is a good example. I dont think its probable that an Israel where israelis and palestinians live as equals is going to happen. It feels so wrong to say this though. I just want the genocide to stop. For starters.

Edited 18 hours ago by Sandroew

[Joseph Maynor]

Who cares about what Professor Dave thinks.

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, Sandroew said:

@Leo Gura @Leo Gura Isnt promoting and pushing leftist ideology the next step in development ?

You can push it, but you should understand why those ideas will not get adopted any time soon.

Many of those leftist ideas are highly impractical and ungrounded.

The problem with leftists is that they love to moralize without understand the realities of survival.

You love to say stop the genocide, but you have no actual solution to the situation. This is like a child screaming: "Ice cream now!"

How do you stop terrorists from attacking Israel?

Edited 15 hours ago by Leo Gura

[trenton]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

How do you stop terrorists from attacking Israel?

I imagine that a leftist would say that the terrorism is rooted in grievances caused by Israel's unfair policies for people treated less than them. Therefore, stopping racism and discrimination against people who did nothing wrong would be one piece of radicalizing more people toward becoming terrorists. This is the same pattern with the war on terror often radicalizing people even more toward terrorism. Therefore, Israel's reaction would have predictably caused even more terrorism given the historical patterns of the war on terror.

Obviously, it is way more complex than that, but it probably is a piece a leftist would say. In terms of how I, specifically stop terrorists from attacking Israel, I don't think there is much I can realistically do because I am in America. Posting on the internet probably won't change these things.

As for actually stopping all of the terrorists, I doubt the methods I mentioned would even be enough even if they would help partially. This sort of thing might be as difficult as trying to figure out how to prevent 9/11. If terrorists have the element of surprise, and peaceful policy isn't enough on its own, then it creates a need for some kind of defense. However, it needs to be a measured and proportionate defense, as a disproportionate reaction would make it worse. Israel maintains its right to defend itself, but in order to do so optimally, it would need to avoid the "blowback effect" which would be caused by excessive aggression. There would need to be a fine balance which is hard to do practically when emotional stakes are high in the middle of ongoing terrorist attacks. Therefore, the predictable outcome would be the overreaction or disproportionate aggression that we see right now.

Terrorists often bank on this reaction specifically to turn others against the nation that was hit. This was part of the plan behind 9/11 as well, knowing that democracies have this specific structural weakness when mass panic causes the overwhelming majority to demand safety and reassurance through a projection of strength even if that projection ultimately backfires. This is roughly the territory concerning why good, proper, proportionate policy typically does not happen in these situations.

[Raze]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

You can push it, but you should understand why those ideas will not get adopted any time soon.

Many of those leftist ideas are highly impractical and ungrounded.

The problem with leftists is that they love to moralize without understand the realities of survival.

You love to say stop the genocide, but you have no actual solution to the situation. This is like a child screaming: "Ice cream now!"

How do you stop terrorists from attacking Israel?

You sanction israel until they accept the arab peace initiative.

Terrorists attacking Israel isn’t why Israel does what it does, it uses that as an excuse.

Funding Hamas to build West Bank settlements isn’t to combat terrorism, rejecting Hamas disarmament because you want to expel the civilians population isn’t to combat terrorism.

Edited 14 hours ago by Raze

[Nivsch]

@trenton Agree with you.

Israel essentially fell into hamas' trap.

[AerisVahnEphelia]

 

 

If everyone was enlightened we wouldn't know who to blame or what to be mad about, it would be heaven, but the human brain is made for hell.

We are by definition in constant division and friction, as it it the natural movement of nature.

 

[Sandroew]

I have been thinking lately that “evacuating” the remaining 2 million palestinians from Israel might be the best course of action.

It is a very problematic solution, but the arab peace initiative is not going to happen.

Of course it is very easy for me to type this as an outsider.

[Sandroew]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You can push it, but you should understand why those ideas will not get adopted any time soon.

Many of those leftist ideas are highly impractical and ungrounded.

The problem with leftists is that they love to moralize without understand the realities of survival.

I agree with this. But i also think our current way of doing things has been pushed to its limits of viability. Fascism is in its renaissance, inequality is higher than ever, global conflicts only seem to get worse and worse, ecological problems are being ignored.

Edited 9 hours ago by Sandroew

[hundreth]

10 hours ago, Raze said:

You sanction israel until they accept the arab peace initiative.

Terrorists attacking Israel isn’t why Israel does what it does, it uses that as an excuse.

Funding Hamas to build West Bank settlements isn’t to combat terrorism, rejecting Hamas disarmament because you want to expel the civilians population isn’t to combat terrorism.

The Arab peace initiative which insists on the right of return? 

Right of return = coded end of Israel

Let's not beat around the bush. It's a poison pill.

We could have leaders with courage to kickstart new peace initiatives directly with the Palestinians though in search of a two state solution. We need to stop this bullshit that the settlers have ended the chance for one. This is convenient for far leftists who hate the idea of Israel and want to see it destroyed under any circumstances. Israel has previously removed all settlers from Gaza. There are other solutions which don't require resettlement. There are many ways around that. 

Pushing against the two state solution only extends the conflict and makes it a toxic zero sum game, but leftists think they are doing something just and moral.

[Hayato]

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

How do you stop terrorists from attacking Israel?

The best way to defeat your enemy is to turn him into your friend.

[Husseinisdoingfine]

13 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

How do you stop terrorists from attacking Israel?

But isn't Israel's policies and actions encouraging more terrorism? 

[hundreth]

Starts at around 17 minutes, but this is an interesting discussion about Krystal Ball's contention that a Jewish state would always be a Jewish supremacist state. Prior to this, Norm Finkelstein challenges the use of the word Zionism as meaningless and encourages us not to use it because it has so many meanings to so many people, which I agree with. He then goes on to explain that a Jewish state is not inherently Jewish supremacist, though there is a majority population issue and open question. He also compares this to the UK being an Anglican state or Ireland being a Catholic state. He is more more nuanced on the issue than Krystal and many of you here. 

[Nivsch]

59 minutes ago, hundreth said:

challenges the use of the word Zionism as meaningless and encourages us not to use it because it has so many meanings to so many people, which I agree with.

This word is like a virus that masks the possibility of seeing Israelis as they are. Even Israelis use this word far less, and anyway has a completely different implicit meaning to it when they do.

Edited 1 hour ago by Nivsch

[Vynce]

12 hours ago, AerisVahnEphelia said:

 

 

If everyone was enlightened we wouldn't know who to blame or what to be mad about, it would be heaven, but the human brain is made for hell.

We are by definition in constant division and friction, as it it the natural movement of nature.

 

If everyone was enlightened, society made for 8 billion people would fall apart in 2 days. The least enlightened would come out as the new kings / dictators