The criticisms of incel-ideology and redpill-ideology also apply to feminist ideology

[mr_engineer]

The criticisms of incel-ideology and redpill-ideology are that 'they make men's understanding of women narrow, biased and self-serving', right? That is a valid criticism. 

My question is - why doesn't the same criticism apply to feminist ideology? Here's what I've heard feminists say: 

• Men are trash. 
• Men are the reason that equality hasn't been achieved
• Men aren't loyal
• Men as a class are completely privileged
• Men fear strong women
• All men cheat
• (This one is my personal favorite) Men are emotionally underdeveloped

Now, tell me - how does this not make women's understanding of men narrow, biased and self-serving? 

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

Yes they are definitely missguided. Their concerns about their rights, and about a lot of their issues is very valid and definitely embedded in truth because these conversations are rooted in their experiences. This is what is ultumately fueling the entire movement, and it's not something they made up. It's just their macro understanding of reality and their assumptions about the root causes of these issues (and thus their supposed solutions) that is either highly insufficient or just straight up BS

Edited yesterday at 04:50 PM by NewKidOnTheBlock

[mr_engineer]

4 minutes ago, NewKidOnTheBlock said:

Their concerns about their rights, and about a lot of their issues is very valid and definitely embedded in truth because these conversations are rooted in their experiences.

I think the same can be said about the manosphere ideologies. 

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

12 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

I think the same can be said about the manosphere ideologies. 

Definitely

[trenton]

One of the criticisms of red pill and incel ideology is that the misogyny sometimes drives its followers to committing acts of mass violence. Sexual frustration can fuel deep resentment leading to shootings.

https://cssh.northeastern.edu/the-misogyny-fueling-americas-mass-shootings/

Is this a counter example of a criticism of these ideologies that don't apply to feminism?

The other examples you gave seem solid. Of course there are sexist feminists just as there sexist men who stereotype about women in harmful ways.

Maybe entitlement to another person's body leading to rape would be another counter example.

Currently, I haven't thought of other counter examples, but this is the first attempt that came to mind that would challenge this perspective. What do you think?

[Hojo]

Bro just check out the feminism subreddit 2 x chromosomes its incel paradise.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

1 hour ago, Hojo said:

Bro just check out the feminism subreddit 2 x chromosomes its incel paradise.

I get massive incels vibes when reading that subreddit. It's a female mirror of the male incel dialogue... Victims, blame. No responsibility. Cannot admit fault. 

[Hojo]

@Natasha Tori Maru its because its actually trans men that hate themselves. They are all men dressing as woman. They had a share your picture day and it was just trans people specifically men into woman. That hate men.

But these are the allies of feminism. Its the biggest group of feminist on the internet.

Edited yesterday at 08:31 PM by Hojo

[eos_nyxia]

2 hours ago, Hojo said:

Bro just check out the feminism subreddit 2 x chromosomes its incel paradise.

I mostly go on there (and similar places) to lurk and get a temperature reading of whatever the issues of the day are for a specific community. In this case, mostly I tend to focus on issues relating to female physical health (especially news that I might have missed from other sources), the current state of reproductive rights (mostly in the States), marital issues and issues interacting with the opposite sex (e.g. the uneven distribution of physical and emotional labour in relationships). (Though there is a ton of selection bias that skews toward the negative -- it makes it seem like everyone has a shitty husband and male friends, which I have trouble believing is the result of issues that SUDDENLY APPEARED with no red flags beforehand. People aren't that crafty, even when they try to be, haha.) Maybe there is an occasional post about human rights issues for women worldwide, but most of it is very US-centric and it shows. 

I mean... any kind of place where people repeatedly go to consolidate their bitterness isn't good for anyone emotionally. After a while, the collective attitude tends to automatically rub off. Even I feel it and I'm not one to automatically identify with the agendas and ideologies of specific communities, even if I'm in the demographic group.  

This is what happens when people go to a specific place to bond with people over a shared lack or wound though. Bonding through perceived shared trials and hardships. It offers a very strong bonding potential. 

 

[Raze]

3 hours ago, Hojo said:

Bro just check out the feminism subreddit 2 x chromosomes its incel paradise.

Can we stop using incel as a term for everything we don’t like. That would be femcel and it doesn’t even apply there since they usually post about issues with husbands and dates.

[Hojo]

@Raze to me its the exact same hatred.

Its like saying left wing radicalism and right wing radicalism are the same. They horseshoe around into the same spot but polar opposites. There is no reason for distinction. I don't really care what they don't like the reason is the same.

Edited yesterday at 11:06 PM by Hojo

[Natasha Tori Maru]

1 hour ago, Raze said:

Can we stop using incel as a term for everything we don’t like. That would be femcel and it doesn’t even apply there since they usually post about issues with husbands and dates.

This is probably needed - not all incels hate women or labour under detrimental ideology.

[Hojo]

Structural Similarities

Structural Critique: Both groups reject the idea that dating and social status are purely individual. They argue that invisible, systemic forces shape human interactions and power dynamics.

Core Vocabulary: Both subcultures rely heavily on specialized jargon and unique terminologies. These "languages" create a strong sense of identity and exclude outsiders.

Online Communities: Both movements heavily utilize digital spaces, forums, and social media to find solidarity, share grievances, and build global networks.

Psychological Similarities

Shared Grievance: Both groups are unified by a deep sense of collective grievance. They view their members as victims of an unfair, oppressive societal status quo.

Desire for Change: Both ideologies express a profound dissatisfaction with current societal norms and demand a radical shift in how gender and relationships work.

In-Group Solidarity: Both create tight-knit communities that offer a deep sense of belonging, validation, and emotional support to individuals who feel lonely or marginalized by mainstream culture.

 

[Hojo]

If an incel has sex hes not suddenly not an incel thats not how i use the terminology.

[aurum]

Yes, you can often apply that criticism to feminist spaces.

But, do that without bias.

You should not feel it's more important to criticize feminists than redpillers. Which is what this conversations often turn into. People defending their ideological camp with "but the other side does it too!!!"

[mr_engineer]

@trenton No, they don't do mass-shootings. Instead, they use their soft-power to destroy the reputation of their enemies (aka, men) by making false-allegations. We can see this clearly in the reaction to the 'Not all men' hashtag, how badly they want to prove that it is, in fact, all men. 

[Someone here]

18 hours ago, trenton said:

One of the criticisms of red pill and incel ideology is that the misogyny sometimes drives its followers to committing acts of mass violence. Sexual frustration can fuel deep resentment leading to shootings.

We are not living in the 1970s anymore .. it’s 2026. There are countless outlets for dealing with pent-up sexual energy like prostitution..escorts and easy access to pornography in most parts of the world. Because of this a man harassing a woman is not always driven purely by sexual lust. it reflects a deeper desperation for love and   Emotional connection and also validation. You want to love and be loved by a woman ..not just fuck her and run away or harass her.

People should not assume that satisfying sexual urges is equivalent to having a successful marriage or a deeply intimate relationship with a woman. Human relationships involve emotional needs as well as physical ones

 

[Ulax]

They get away with it cos dudes wanna bang them loool

[LordFall]

21 hours ago, mr_engineer said:

The criticisms of incel-ideology and redpill-ideology are that 'they make men's understanding of women narrow, biased and self-serving', right? That is a valid criticism. 

My question is - why doesn't the same criticism apply to feminist ideology? Here's what I've heard feminists say: 

• Men are trash. 
• Men are the reason that equality hasn't been achieved
• Men aren't loyal
• Men as a class are completely privileged
• Men fear strong women
• All men cheat
• (This one is my personal favorite) Men are emotionally underdeveloped

Now, tell me - how does this not make women's understanding of men narrow, biased and self-serving? 

You have to differentiate people venting online vs complex critique of the systems in our society. There are many in which women didn't really have rights until the last century and for example until 1965 couldn't open a bank account and manage property without their husband's consent. Marital rape not being recognized as a thing also being one. Also to this day in other countries women's rights are not great. You can also say that in general civil rights were not defended for men as well up until the 60s as well in the states which is a fair point. 

Now we go back to people venting on the internet and this is where I agree with you that it's basically a loser mindset from both men and women that are failing to get the life they want and instead of having the humility to get into self-development they will trash whatever is the source of their pain. Incels blame women, "feminists" blame men(considering incel means involuntarily celibate I would argue those feminists you talk about land right in the incel category too as femcels though) and you also have reddit left wingers/socialists/anti work people that blame rich people and the government for their lack of personal finance. 

Fundamentally it stems from a victim complex and learned helplessness. 

[Basman]

It's just horseshoe theory lol. We just call them femcels. Same pig, different lipstick. The loser victim mindset is the core.

The main difference is that femcels are more socially accepted.

 

Edited 3 hours ago by Basman