Drama Alert! Another YTber is calling us a cult! 😈☦️

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@No1Here2c So you claim it should be possible through intuition?

[Lila9]

This is not a cult.

But it has some cult-like elements that probably exist in many groups.

There is conformity, spiritual bypassing, virtue signaling, bootlicking, passive aggressiveness, power dynamics, ego, scapegoating, bullying, over-intellectualization, misalignment between the teachings and the actual behavior, lack of tolerance for others, over-judgment, etc.

[Basman]

16 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

There is conformity, spiritual bypassing, virtue signaling, bootlicking, passive aggressiveness, power dynamics, ego, scapegoating, bullying, over-intellectualization, misalignment between the teachings and the actual behavior, lack of tolerance for others, over-judgment, etc.

People are maybe dicks but your not actively being censored and punished for having a different opinion unless your actively misbehaving. Your average subreddit is way more cult-like.

Edited 9 hours ago by Basman

[Lila9]

3 minutes ago, Basman said:

People are maybe dicks but your not actively being censored and punished for having a different opinion unless your actively misbehaving. Your average subreddit is way more cult-like.

Sure. 

[caspex]

On 14/5/2026 at 0:59 PM, zurew said:

 Leo still uses this confused talk  about "proper" definitions.

There is no such a thing as a "proper" definition (you can define any fucking term, in any fucking way you like and there is no law of the universe that tells you about what any given term is supposed to mean irrespective of use), but there is such a thing as investigating and firguring out how a given word is used by a given group of people (and yes, you can empirically investigate how society broadly uses a given term or how experts who study that given area use the  term).

But we can just drop the confused "proper definition" talk and just lay down multiple different definitions and then give an analysis under which ones actualized.org would be considered a cult (assuming Leo and people give more fuck about substance, than about getting lost in semantics). 

 

 

For instance using this definition:

I dont think even Heaven's gate would fall under this. It seems to be the case that Marshall Applewhite genuinely believed his own bullshit (he literally unalived himself along with the other members).

So under your use of the term 'cult' , Heaven's gate wasnt a cult.

 

 

if you are the standard of what counts as "proper epistemology" then we are fucked. If other people would apply the lack of rigor that you apply to make sense of the world and to reach conclusions about things, then we wouldnt get anywhere.

If treating the conclusions drawn from very weak inductive inferences about other people’s knowledge, experience, or awakening with absolute certainty counts as "proper" epistemology, then hundreds of millions of people on Earth already qualify as examples of "proper" epistemology. 

Like you unironically have a "God revealed to me that you are wrong and dumb" kind of epistemology.

And just to be very clear - you still have 0 reply to the issues that I and others have pointed out about the limitations of the mystic kind of epistemology and you have never ever replied to those and just brush them off or just simply ignore them (as if that would be a substantive reply to the issues that are brought up).

You are in a constant cycle of "of course I can be wrong" when pressed, and when not pressed - you immediately pivot back to "of course im the standard of proper epistemology, and Im more right than everyone else and all of you fuckers are completely wrong and have no fucking clue what you guys are talking about"

 

 

Also the double standards that you use and that you expect about how other should treat you and your owrk vs how you treat others and their work  is still very cute:

You expect and require other people to always run with such an interpretation of your statements and your work and your behavior, where you look the best and where you never contradict yourself and where there isn't any negative entailments to what you are saying that you would be uncomfortable with, but when it comes to you doing the evaluation of what other people are saying or what the entailment of their work is , then you dont do your most basic due diligence to try to check or reinterpret what they meant by certain statements.

When you interpret statements and the work of other people, you either project the most uncharitable and worst interpretations on their statements under which interpretation their statments become either obviously false  or insanely inplausible or just simply dumb ; or you just simply force your own frame and own use of words on their work and their statements (again your confused "proper" definition view in action)  and then pretend that they used those word the exact same way as you do (this is btw another sign that you are nowhere near the system thinker you think you are - you are extremely rigid and unsophisticated ,when it comes to entertaining alternative positions and alternative interpretations of things).

 

You mistake your lack of capability to entertain multiple different interpretations and hypotheses at the same time and you forcing your one and only understood frame on everything  with you thinking for yourself and being sovereign.

 

So what we are left with is something like:  

if anyone ever thinks that Leo Gura has ever contradicted himself or if anyone thinks that you ever said anything dumb or false, then your reply will be "the only reason why you interpreted my statements that way is because you are not intelligent enough to see that im right or that I was right, and of course and its obviously true, that all of my past statements has to be interpreted in a way under which what I said is true and under which there isn't any such entailment or consequence that I would be even remotely uncomfortable with"

If you have a conclusion that contradicts Leo Gura's view of things, then you better do more spiritual work or more psychedelics, because its impossible that the most awake person in the Universe is wrong and that there is someone who is more right about something related to spirituality and if you think that its possible that there is someone who is more awake than Leo, then you are just dumb and not intelligent enough to see the obvious truth.

Should Leo Gura do more work and should Leo Gura entertain that he shouldnt "settle" all disagreements about spirituality with "you are wrong , im right, do more work" , naaaah, the dude is already awake and knows his shit better than you do.

 

I agree with @zurew here, he points to a lot of problems I have seen with Leo.

The thread has gotten lost into understanding what it means to define stuff when in reality this is the real issue at hand. This is what needs to be discussed. I would appreciate a more thorough response from @Leo Gura on this than a simple 'you're wrong because you aren't conscious enough'. Just this once.

 

 

As for the definitions. Here's my two cents - 
Clearly there is something there when you try to define a cult. You wouldn't define a cult as 'a red ball' because it's clearly not that. There is some elephant everybody is trying describe from their perspective. 

I don't know what a cult is, but I know what a cult is not: Being able to openly criticize the leader and having no bars to leaving the community, not even epistemic. (Example: You'll go to hell if you leave!)
Actualized.org allows for both open criticism of Leo and puts no epistemic, financial or physical restrains on you to stay. There's no peer pressure on you to stay within the community either. If you criticize Leo there is no crazy backlash either. This is enough to show me Actualized.org is not a cult.

But as things are progressing, I do feel the community is becoming a little less conscious and with those retreats coming up I am very curious to see how Leo prevents this place from becoming more cult-like.

[Human Mint]

16 hours ago, zurew said:

Also Its not like you couldn't teach a puppy using the word "chicken" to teach it to sit.

But then you would have to say "sit" so the dog goes hunting for chickens.

[No1Here2c]

14 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

@No1Here2c So you claim it should be possible through intuition?

Intuition is but one limited human aspect that may play into it. It is not the full scope of what i am saying.

15 hours ago, No1Here2c said:

This requires a hyperaware, hyperfluid state

 

[integral]

@zurew  I have a question: what makes Heaven's Gate and Flat Earth communities different from actualized.org?

If we take the definition Leo gave of a cult very strictly like it's some list of rules (Playing devil's advocate), then Heaven's Gate won't fit into that definition of a cult.

Leader 100% believed his worldview and everyone in the community went on board and fully adopted and altered their identity to match that worldview. Well let's say actualized.org did something similar pushing everyone to be epistemically responsible. And aligned with the higher Vision possibly that Leo has created.

Why is actualized.org not just another complete load of arbitrary Belief systems like every other community?

[Rigel]

Internet outrage will win over independent thinking any day of the week🥰