What is best pickup model ?

[Zenterus]

2 hours ago, Ramanujan said:

redpill is not about dating efficiency. Redpill is about dark truth to those who plan to get married and how fucked up , modern woman are. and many other truth

I understand that it must be very addictive to seek out dark truths about the world (even though the red pill is rarely accurate to reality, as I stated above) but considering your limited experience with dating, I would advise you to stay away from that shit. All it's gonna achieve is make you jaded and resentful to women over time, if it's not balanced with real world positive experiences with women.

If you care to actually attract high quality women in your life then go out and interact with them in person and through trial and error you will learn all that is relevant for you to know. Everything else is just a waste of your time.

[Ramanujan]

On 24/04/2026 at 8:44 PM, Zenterus said:

 

If you care to actually attract high quality women in your life then go out and interact with them in person and through trial and error you will learn all that is relevant for you to know. Everything else is just a waste of your time.

But wouldn't high quality woman cheat on me. They have lots of options. Using Instagram she can get laid behind my back

 

 

 

Redpill made me hate woman thou. I am a volcel now

[Spiral]

Woman are a mystery to me. Sometimes they just like me for some reason, that’s when I get lucky. It’s not about me doing anything particular

[Miguel1]

On 22/04/2026 at 7:42 PM, AION said:

@Ramanujan just go with Owen. He is a safe bet. I saw his infield and it is very natural and authentic making a real connection while Todd comes off as he is running a script and just pushing buttons. 

I agree.

Todd is good if you are naturally charismatic. Otherwise he is just gonna get you stuck in your head.

I learned a few techniques / concepts from him that skyrocketed my results.

[Raze]

1 hour ago, Miguel1 said:

 

I learned a few techniques / concepts from him that skyrocketed my results.

Like what?

[Miguel1]

@Raze Flipping the script, qualifying, disqualifying, push-pull, seeding, escalating in the negative & texting game comes to mind.

That being said, it’s been 5+ years and I don’t consciously do these anymore. My whole being communicates these via subcommunication, I’m just having fun and flirting.

And again, these concepts and techniques will just get you in your head overthinking and overanalyzing, if you are not already charismatic.

Edited Tuesday at 06:43 PM by Miguel1

[Ulax]

3 hours ago, Miguel1 said:

@Raze Flipping the script, qualifying, disqualifying, push-pull, seeding, escalating in the negative & texting game comes to mind.

That being said, it’s been 5+ years and I don’t consciously do these anymore. My whole being communicates these via subcommunication, I’m just having fun and flirting.

And again, these concepts and techniques will just get you in your head overthinking and overanalyzing, if you are not already charismatic.

Flipping the script is such a wild experience when you first do it.

[Ulax]

5 hours ago, Miguel1 said:

I agree.

Todd is good if you are naturally charismatic. Otherwise he is just gonna get you stuck in your head.

I learned a few techniques / concepts from him that skyrocketed my results.

I'm doing system by Todd atm. I love the game stuff. But I don't know so much how to go about the general conversational vibing. Any pointers?

In the past, I've done self-amusing. But I end up dancing monkey. So I want to move on from it.

[Miguel1]

6 hours ago, Ulax said:

In the past, I've done self-amusing. But I end up dancing monkey. So I want to move on from it.

You have to mix that shit with sexual tension.

Dancing monkey is mostly for yourself to get in a fun, relaxed, playful state.

[AtmanIsBrahman]

This guy is less well-known and seems pretty legit

 

[PenguinPablo]

I admire Mystery a lot. Think he is very intelligent for pioneering so much of the dating stuff but his model is overly cerebral and I think that hurts most men. 

Owen's approach is more intuitive and flow based. But you're right it's not really formalized or articulated in a structured manner. It's kinda like a bunch of rambling essays that you need to somehow fit together. It's lack of cohesion is a glaring weakness.

[Carl-Richard]

People learning pickup theory to be successful with women reminds me of people learning music theory to be good musicians. That's like at most a bonus, if it's not a detriment (which it very often can be). 

Playing music (or making it, be it only in thought) is what makes you a good musician. And emphasis on "playing" and not necessarily "practice". Some of the best musical virtuosos in the world have said they have never actually "practiced" but simply played what they enjoy.

So maybe the question is do you genuinely enjoy (or can you get yourself to enjoy) talking to women? Then maybe they will enjoy talking to you too (many women are like pristine mirrors, they reflect yourself right back at you).

And as for "I can enjoy talking about things I like but then women won't like me", that's not what I mean. That's literally defined as "autistic thinking", talking only about your own interests while not communicating with the other person. And it's not only women who won't like you then. If you can't tune into the other person and establish a shared space and connection, that's a larger issue of how you relate to people, and that can be trained, and you can get to like that over time, genuinely listening to people and riffing off of them.

The trick is to get to talk about your own interests "through" them. You lead, you ask, you probe, you listen, then find a connection and go from there. Or you simply learn to like observing and engaging with different perspectives which then feeds into your interests that way. If there is no connection, get it out then leave it, you are talking to yourself. You want to enjoy talking "to" or "with" them, not "at" them.

Shallow gimmicks do not beat genuine connection. When it comes to playing, drop the theory and engage with the music.

Edited 3 hours ago by Carl-Richard

[aurum]

34 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

People learning pickup theory to be successful with women reminds me of people learning music theory to be good musicians. That's like at most a bonus, if it's not a detriment (which it very often can be). 

That doesn't hold with music or with women.

Everyone uses theory. It's just a question of how much and how good it is.

Anyone who is serious about something will put in effort to learn the theory, or you're just being foolish.

[Carl-Richard]

10 minutes ago, aurum said:

That doesn't hold with music or with women.

You have a very "reducing" temperament, I could've expected this response.

 

14 minutes ago, aurum said:

Everyone uses theory. It's just a question of how much and how good it is.

Anyone who is serious about something will put in effort to learn the theory, or you're just being foolish.

Then I guess I'm saying being very serious about theory is not necessarily the answer and it might even be detrimental if you're not already somewhat intuitively well-adjusted (and maybe even if you are).

It's like if you want to be serious about walking on your two feet, do you have to be very serious about the theory of walking on your two feet or should you perhaps simply proceed to walk on your two feet and see if it works just doing that? Maybe if you want to add a couple of percentages of efficiency on your walking, you will engage in some theory and perhaps slightly tweak your walking patterns, but you might also end up ruining your natural gait and become less efficient.

[aurum]

21 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Then I guess I'm saying being very serious about theory is not necessarily the answer and it might even be detrimental if you're not already somewhat intuitively well-adjusted (and maybe even if you are).

It's the opposite.

The more intuitively well-adjusted you are, the less theory you need. Theory is for when you're not where you want to be, which is most guys who are struggling with dating.

You can potentially get in your head by consuming theory, but it's silly to therefore frame theory as simply a "bonus". It is not a bonus for guys who struggle, it's essential.

21 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

t's like if you want to be serious about walking on your two feet, do you have to be very serious about the theory of walking on your two feet or should you perhaps simply proceed to walk on your two feet and see if it works just doing that?

The whole point of theory is that we're tackling problems beyond your current skill set. So walking doesn't apply.

Sure, you could try to sit down and "just play music". But good luck with that.