What are you proud of?

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@LoneWonderer I'll add that the process was slow. Very painful. Uncomfortable.

Lots of emotional issues came up through it. I don't know why getting into business and making a career did this for me. I'm still trying to work it out 🥹

But it has been the best thing for me spiritually. Strangely.

Edited 20 hours ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[LoneWonderer]

10 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

@LoneWonderer I'll add that the process was slow. Very painful. Uncomfortable.

Lots of emotional issues came up through it. 

Was this something that you forced upon yourself or was growth forced upon you eventually (like all the hens came home to roost typa deal)? I ask because I see it very difficult for me to go at it alone unless change in this domain is literally forced upon me by the hand of god himself! (Jk about the god part, but yeah I see it very difficult to change by my own will).

Also in regards to business, I know you have previously mentioned on this forum that it's a family business. If it had not been for a family and strong support network, would you say you'd have had the will to go at it in business alone? Would you still have been in the place of growth today had your circumstances not have been that you started the business with people you love and that support you? 

Edited 20 hours ago by LoneWonderer

[Natasha Tori Maru]

25 minutes ago, LoneWonderer said:

Was this something that you forced upon yourself or was growth forced upon you eventually (like all the hens came home to roost typa deal)? I ask because I see it very difficult for me to go at it alone unless change in this domain is literally forced upon me by the hand of god himself! (Jk about the god part, but yeah I see it very difficult to change by my own will).

Also in regards to business, I know you have previously mentioned on this forum that it's a family business. If it had not been for a family and strong support network, would you say you'd have had the will to go at it in business alone? Would you still have been in the place of growth today had your circumstances not have been that you started the business with people you love and that support you? 

Definitely felt like it was externally forced. 

I would never have chosen to engage in a business, let alone construction. Literally the opportunity came up and I just thought 'why the fuck not?'. But I had to be in a place to even want to accept the opportunity.

I wouldn't have been able to do this without nepotism. Learning from someone with 40 years of commercial construction experience. But also, I am proficient at the role, and excel without feeling like I force myself. So I am not in this position without some merit. I was selected for the role because I had a mechanical problem solving mind. Resiliance. Positivity. Persistence. 

Combined with being a woman - I think I had a unique advantage there.

So there is some luck involved. Some blessings. But I had to do the work on my end and learn on the job. And fast. No education. Sink or swim. Regardless of it being a family business, if I failed in the role I would have gotten the axe.

Edited 19 hours ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[LoneWonderer]

3 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Definitely felt like it was externally forced. 

I would never have chosen to engage in a business, let alone construction. Literally the opportunity came up and I just thought 'why the fuck not?'. But I had to be in a place to even want to accept the opportunity.

I wouldn't have been able to do this without nepotism. Learning from someone with 40 years of commercial construction experience. But also, I am proficient at the role, and excel without feeling like I force myself. So I am not in this position without some merit. I was selected for the role because I had a mechanical problem solving mind. Resiliance. Positivity. Persistence. 

Combined with being a woman - I think I had a unique advantage there.

So there is some luck involved. Some blessings. But I had to do the work on my end and learn on the job. And fast. No education. Sink or swim. Regardless of it being a family business, if I failed in the role I would have gotten the axe.

Thank you for sharing. Sounds like it's the right role for you and like you've found your purpose in it. 🙏

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@LoneWonderer keep floating on through life - your current path is rock solid if you ask me. There is not right or wrong. See where it takes you. 

My only advice would be to consider seriously all opportunities that come by, no matter how unappealing they may appear 😁

[Spiritual Warrior]

Nice work everyone, it's important to appreciate how far you've come and you all have lots to be proud of👏

[Spiritual Warrior]

18 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Pride is a low emotion just above anger. It's mostly not worth focusing your time and attention on (unless you're working with the emotion). It's something you release when it happens (if appropriate) and get on with it. Try something like gratitude instead.

Interesting perspective, and I do remember that emotional model that has pride quite low, I think it's from Ken Wilber. The problem here is in a sense I am asking everyone to write down things that they are "grateful" that they accomplished, I just happened to use the word "proud." 

I think the reason "pride" is so low is because you are feeding your own ego, you are "proud" of yourself and yourself alone, and there's nothing wrong with that, I think that can be a very positive thing, but to be "grateful" for what you've accomplished is recognizing that you are not the only one that steered the boat, the universe allowed you to create these amazing things in your life and you are "grateful" for them. 

So a better way to phrase the post would be, "what is it that you are grateful for having accomplished in your life?"

Thanks for your perspective.

Edited 15 hours ago by Spiritual Warrior

[Spiritual Warrior]

15 hours ago, Oppositionless said:

Proud I meditated (kriya) every day for 3 months even if I fell off recently 

I like that you remained proud even though you fell off, you're right, this is still quite an achievement. And the next time you go for it, you will last 6 months! 

[gettoefl]

Pride for me is knowing what I am. Gratitude is who told me. I couldn't have done it alone. Pride is the extent to which I choose the real me. Most days are 10/10. Pride is making the ego humble. It's next to nothing but I do need it a while. It does my bidding not me its. It knows its place. It's my favourite pet. I'm grateful for it since without it how could I know me. I'm proud of me. I came a long way.

Edited 12 hours ago by gettoefl

[Carl-Richard]

4 hours ago, Spiritual Warrior said:

Interesting perspective, and I do remember that emotional model that has pride quite low, I think it's from Ken Wilber. The problem here is in a sense I am asking everyone to write down things that they are "grateful" that they accomplished, I just happened to use the word "proud." 

Then it would have to be "gratitude for the things that made me come to this point in my life", or else it's just pride with separate steps. If you put the focus on circumstances and how it was not you who created them, not even your own sense of motivation, drive, persistence, values, simply that these occurred in your life and you're grateful for them, then you're avoiding the "I am the thing" that underlies pride. I didn't choose feeling like I wanted to do x things. They simply occurred to me, and I did them because I wanted them. I had fundamentally no say, only in an illusory way. But I did do what I want, and doing what I want is important. I'm not removing the virtue of autonomy. Feeling like you're responsible in the moment is key for being an actor in the world. But dwelling on it in the past (or in the form of thoughts running parallel with the present), is ironically to give it away.

But of course, if you feel like you didn't want to do anything of it but you still did it, be it of shame, guilt, despair, or because you had to do it for some reason or another, then pride is understandable because it's a step up on the "emotional scale". But if you did things out of joy, pride pulls you down.

Edited 10 hours ago by Carl-Richard

[Hasson_Miah]

95% complete with my 14 week bodybuilding programme. 

Sunday will be my last session, Monday will be day 1 of a 1 week deload. 

So I am proud of that.

[UnbornTao]

14 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

It's quite literally the impeding of movement. Notice if you ever walk on the street and somebody stops right in front of you abruptly, it's so ingrained and spontaneous to get angry. The energy essentially says "move, get out of the way", it's energy that comes when you need to push through some boundary. Even tiny single-celled organisms probably have some kind of anger response. It's so deeply primal. And it doesn't necessarily involve a feeling of hurt. It's much more surface level, like a form of physiological activation. 

Feeling of hurt usually comes from something else, like shame, guilt, physical hurt, where anger might be involved as a secondary response (some men especially are unable to identify deeper emotions like shame, guilt, but instead only identify it as anger, which again is a primal and kind of physiological arousal). It's a very rudimentary form of emotion, that's what's meant by "lower". Same arguably with pride (despite humans making it complicated with all the mentalistic echoing back and forth).

 

Why place anything in a hierarchy? Why describe anything as any limited thing? Why say anything is a certain way? I don't see why you would limit the problem to emotions or just hierarchical organization. Any type of organization has problems, isn't it?

Having it known, so to speak, tends to undermine our experience of the emotion. It makes us feel like we know what we're talking about, while in truth a lot of that is disguised ignorance in the form of a "map."

Yeah, my gripe is with getting lost in the mapping and not really recognizing the difference between these two domains. This sounds like a basic point, and yet it's easily missed. Also, it's real. 

Look into it: Why would the physical act of obstruction necessarily ignite or inspire anger in oneself? You can be walking beside a construction site and be met with a bunch of bricks falling just in front of you, making you pause. Not only will you not be angry, you'll be glad that you stopped in your tracks. Notice that you can not get angry when merely physically obstructed. If you get angry as a result of that, it suggests you wanted to do something but didn't get your way, and so you felt hurt, which the anger is trying to manage. I claim this is inextricably linked to a feeling of incapacity. Hurt is core to anger. It is something to look into. Pain's contribution to life is huge.

Hierarchies are fine, and yet they are not necessary and are hearsay when it comes to one's experience of the emotion. I find such pursuits tend to distract us and keep us stuck in intellectual considerations, and so are superficial in this case. Not saying such overlays can't be useful - they just have very little to do with the actuality and presence of the thing itself. 

What actually occurs so that that emotion arises?

[Carl-Richard]

50 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

Why would the physical act of obstruction necessarily ignite or inspire anger in oneself? You can be walking beside a construction site and be met with a bunch of bricks falling just in front of you, making you pause. Not only will you not be angry, you'll be glad that you stopped in your tracks.

I can get angry by inanimate objects seemingly obstructing my way. This is clearly a "must find contrarian example" style of engagement. Just keep it simple, say all maps are shit, but you don't need to criticize the utility of the maps on their own terms.

 

50 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

Notice that you can not get angry when merely physically obstructed.

If you are aware enough, you can perceive the event with such fidelity and understanding that it will not feel like an obstruction, that it is instead meant to be, and therefore you deal with it not with anger but with tranquility, joy. You can also catch the emotion before it reaches behavioral engagement, essentially choosing whether you want to get moved by the energy or extinguish it.

These are all possibilities for why anger is not always happening in a possibly anger-inducing situation. But the function of the anger, when it arises, can definitely be understood and explained clearly, most of the time (as yes there are cases where you are unaware of the causes of anger, be it due to subconscious drives, memories, events or influences).

 

50 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

If you get angry as a result of that, it suggests you wanted to do something but didn't get your way, and so you felt hurt, which the anger is trying to manage. I claim this is inextricably linked to a feeling of incapacity. Hurt is core to anger. It is something to look into. Pain's contribution to life is huge.

Again, anger might be involved secondarily when you deal with things like having your autonomy not respected or threatened, which can cause all kinds of states like anxiety, fear, disappointment, but if you boil it down to its core biological root, obstruction of movement (in quite an immediate and spontaneous way) seems to be it. Anger is generally directed "at" something (unless you internalize it and direct it against yourself through mentalistic human neurosis of course). It clearly mobilizes you in a certain way unlike say anxiety or fear.

And this I think is quite clear from all the usual examples where anger appears and not say anxiety or fear. I don't feel anxiety or fear if I bump into a thing in my room when trying to move quickly from A to B (unless I'm say about break something or something falls over). I feel ANGRY. On the other hand, I feel those things if I say hear an unexpected sound in the house if I'm home alone. Whatever made that sound could threaten my autonomy and make my life quite bad, and then appropriate emotions may arise for dealing with that, but in that case, anger doesn't seem to be needed just yet.

Edited 5 hours ago by Carl-Richard

[Human Mint]

Studying the guitar I guess. Since 2024 I made a deep dive into it and I'am proud of the progress I made learning scales and chords. That knowledge remains glued into your memory, so I feel good having acquired that capital. But really I am not even near to where I want to be. I am curious to see where I will be in 3 years.

It is a hard path.

[UnbornTao]

3 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

I can get angry by inanimate objects seemingly obstructing my way. This is clearly a "must find contrarian example" style of engagement. Just keep it simple, say all maps are shit, but you don't need to criticize the utility of the maps on their own terms.

Not shit, just invented, complementary, ultimately out of touch with the actuality of things. Extraneous. Like eating a picture of food when hungry.

You can of course get angry at that. The main point is that the circumstances are not the deciding factor. The mere objective obstruction does nothing more than physically prevent you from moving forward. Why would this event by itself have to generate anger - or any other reaction, for that matter?

What else occurs such that anger can show up in the first place? You do see and interpret the situation a certain way relative to your concerns and wants. You likely had a desire or expectation that was thwarted - to which your response is reacting in an angry way.

3 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

If you are aware enough, you can perceive the event with such fidelity and understanding that it will not feel like an obstruction, that it is instead meant to be, and therefore you deal with it not with anger but with tranquility, joy. You can also catch the emotion before it reaches behavioral engagement, essentially choosing whether you want to get moved by the energy or extinguish it.

These are all possibilities for why anger is not always happening in a possibly anger-inducing situation. But the function of the anger, when it arises, can definitely be understood and explained clearly, most of the time (as yes there are cases where you are unaware of the causes of anger, be it due to subconscious drives, memories, events or influences).

Yeah, I mostly agree. We ourselves are the main anger-inducing factor, though.

If we see it as an obstruction, it is relative to some concern of ours that we're failing to fulfill. It is always related to our agenda. The circumstance itself doesn't care.

I claim that we don't really know what either anger or pain are, intrinsically. We just think (believe) we do due to their familiarity and our arrogance. This kind of mental "knowing" can actually take the form of ignorance and prevent us from observing what's really taking place as the emotion. Explaining it is one thing; being aware of its nature is another.

Consider that to the degree we realize its nature is the degree of freedom we're allowed to generate it or not. (Not as a pretension but as a real ability to willfully experience it or not.) Not saying it is necessarily easy or commonplace.

We could see the emotion as having certain components that occur regardless of the possible causes ascribed to it. For example, anger is always related to a past event. It's about something that's already passed, even if just a millisecond ago.

3 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Again, anger might be involved secondarily when you deal with things like having your autonomy not respected or threatened, which can cause all kinds of states like anxiety, fear, disappointment, but if you boil it down to its core biological root, obstruction of movement (in quite an immediate and spontaneous way) seems to be it. Anger is generally directed "at" something (unless you internalize it and direct it against yourself through mentalistic human neurosis of course). It clearly mobilizes you in a certain way unlike say anxiety or fear.

And this I think is quite clear from all the usual examples where anger appears and not say anxiety or fear. I don't feel anxiety or fear if I bump into a thing in my room when trying to move quickly from A to B (unless I'm say about break something or something falls over). I feel ANGRY. On the other hand, I feel those things if I say hear an unexpected sound in the house if I'm home alone. Whatever made that sound could threaten my autonomy and make my life quite bad, and then appropriate emotions may arise for dealing with that, but in that case, anger doesn't seem to be needed just yet.

The first paragraph sounds reasonable. What underlies it, though? Obstruction of movement is once again a simple physical act that by itself doesn't produce anger. Something more has to occur - whatever that is. The difference is that anger is based on the past, while anxiety is a form of fear - both of these are based on the future.

A bit all over the place.

[CARDOZZO]

I'm proud:

• I don't drink 
• I don't do drugs/smoke 
• I'm avid reader
• I'm capable of attracting the opposite sex
• I think about weird, innovative, crazy scenarios 
• I'm runner
• I'm bachelors/post-graduate 
• I'm cognitively flexible
• I'm curious
• I'm avid researcher
• I'm avid learner