Music Frame Discussion

[integral]

OK, let's do an experiment.

We're gonna take some piece of music and then your job is to contemplate with that music and reports on what it inspired you to focus on. Or you could try contemplating a specific subject with that music and seeing if it had a positive or negative effect, or if it made you more creative or less creative. And so on.

The context was from a previous thread where we concluded that Leo has a specific music preference, which has a specific emotion that he prefers for contemplation. All of his music falls into one specific emotional frame that he seems to prefer over others, were he posts on the blog.

The frame being "nostalgic beauty of life", with a bit of sadness and longing to it. But that's up for debate. 

Looking into this further, it is clear that music create a specific frame and can stimulate in different ways or not stimulate.

My personal experience of Leo's music is that it disrupts my thinking process, why this is is unclear.

This is also an open discussion about this topic: feel free.

Edited 4 hours ago by integral

[Carl-Richard]

I can't really use music while doing anything that requires serious thinking. I must be deuronivergent or something.

[Osaid]

Oh heck no. I'm not using music to gain anything. That's like looking at a rose and going "but muh gainz". The rose isn't about you. You have to pick one or the other.

What's the obsession with thinking? You wanna think real hard when listening to a good symphony??

4 minutes ago, integral said:

My personal experience of Leo's music is that it disrupts my thinking process, why this is is unclear.

It's very clear to me. The music is an invitation to feel something. You're either on board, or not. You wanna think. Music doesn't want you to think. It wants you to focus on the music, not you, not your gains, not your thinking. Not anything else.

[Osaid]

Ah ok I see. There's a deep desire to contemplate. Anything antithetical is rejected or seen as confusing or whatever. Thus far you've been focused on music that isn't energetic enough to override your thinking.

Edited 4 hours ago by Osaid

[Osaid]

4 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

I can't really use music while doing anything that requires serious thinking.

Unserious thinking is the best type of thinking

4 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

I must be deuronivergent or something.

See

[Carl-Richard]

12 minutes ago, Osaid said:

Unserious thinking is the best type of thinking

See

😂😂😂

I wrote that while listening to music btw 😁

Edited 3 hours ago by Carl-Richard

[Joseph Maynor]

Does contemplation mean you're trying to control a contemplation or are you letting contemplation emerge more naturally?

[Eskilon]

27 minutes ago, Osaid said:

It's very clear to me. The music is an invitation to feel something. You're either on board, or not. You wanna think. Music doesn't want you to think. It wants you to focus on the music, not you, not your gains, not your thinking. Not anything else.

This. But op is an INTP, thinking is his world even when listening to music.

The music is just the circumference for him while thinking is the center. A shame if you ask me

It might also be the reason why he dislikes Leo's type of music. Leo's music taste is not very complex or sophisticated like classical music for example. It is very simple for the most part. This bores people who likes 'complex' music like classic or something, they need a lot of variety because they are there with their heads and the head is bound to become bored at some point.

Edited 3 hours ago by Eskilon

[integral]

3 minutes ago, Eskilon said:

This. But op is an INTP, thinking is his world even when listening to music.

The music is just the circumference for him while thinking is the center. A shame if you ask me

The INTP point might have some truth to it for Leo. I think Leo would respond to this whole thread that it's complete preference, whatever works for you. He shares music that works for him.

But I don't think he has addressed why it's that specific emotion that he prefers over others. What the deeper meaning or map behind it is?

 

 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

Music is an opportunity to access feelings, enhance or lower cognition and engage in heightened states.

It has always been spiritual for me. I enjoy all sorts of music. I use simple tones and hymns while at work. Singing bowls etc. Any other sort of complex music will detract from my focus. I will sit and listen to an album in full, eyes closed. Even if it is not my typical taste - I will still give it a full go for the experience. I find I can enjoy almost any musical genre and style. I can always look for elements of it, harmony, syncopation, rhythm, melody etc to pick out. I also love listening for each instrument. Overall I love good composers. 

Soundtracks to movies and games really grab me.

I enjoy Leo's music, but it does not hold my attention and there isn't enough mastery, composition or engineering in it to entertain my mind to sit through it without attending to something else like knitting, weaving, drawing etc. 

As an example I went on a 30km mountain bike ride this morning listening to Lateralis by Tool. 

The music hit me so hard I broke all my timelap records on that trail. The adrenalin gave me a lot of power on the hills - precisely from the excitement and chills from the music.

Overall music to me is an opportunity to reach the sublime.

Edited 3 hours ago by Natasha Tori Maru

[Leo Gura]

You strawman my music as having one emotion. Then you act puzzled.

[Osaid]

31 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

😂😂😂

I wrote that while listening to music btw 😁

Hahaha I was gonna say, must be listening to some music while writing that.

[Oppositionless]

When I'm listening to music, as when I'm doing psychedelics, I prefer to just be in the moment. Bc I'm contemplating the majority of my waking hours, I'd rather take breaks and get emotional when using music.

Edited 3 hours ago by Oppositionless

[Osaid]

25 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Does contemplation mean you're trying to control a contemplation or are you letting contemplation emerge more naturally?

Good point. If there's a real desire it seems to just happen by itself. Music or no music.

[Osaid]

30 minutes ago, Eskilon said:

This. But op is an INTP, thinking is his world even when listening to music.

The music is just the circumference for him while thinking is the center. A shame if you ask me

That's no excuse since I'm also an INTP.

I get it though. Some people have different motives. Some people aren't even that sensitive to music.

I understand that INTPs are often touted as "thinkers" and not "feelers", but they can actually get quite good at perceiving and organizing emotions and feelings if they glimpse the importance of it. Imagine if someone that was really good at thinking used that thinking to get really good at feeling, or some such thing.

Edited 3 hours ago by Osaid

[Osaid]

Short listen to the recent blog one.

Very simple and definitely invokes questioning. Lyrics are a main focus and they are literally questions. Then there's a pause or gap for the ambience to come through. Very expansive, not structured. "Freeing". Definitely like if contemplation were a song or something. Did Leo admit he uses them for contemplation? Cause I can definitely see that.

49 minutes ago, Eskilon said:

It might also be the reason why he dislikes Leo's type of music. Leo's music taste is not very complex or sophisticated like classical music for example. It is very simple for the most part. This bores people who likes 'complex' music like classic or something, they need a lot of variety because they are there with their heads and the head is bound to become bored at some point.

Maybe. Definitely very simple compared to what I listen to. It could also be possible Leo simply hasn't ran into more complex music for him to like, but he would actually like it.

Edited 2 hours ago by Osaid

[Joseph Maynor]

I never try to fight with people about taste.  That's where you learn that everyone has their own unique perspective.  Everyone loves music, but they differ as to what music they like.  There's a lesson in that!  We can value the same thing and expect to be different too.  This is what I think musicians learn quicker than others do.

[Osaid]

Just now, Joseph Maynor said:

I never try to fight with people about taste.  That's where you learn that everyone has their own unique perspective.  Everyone loves music, but they differ as to what music they like.  There's a lesson in that!  We can value the same thing and expect to be different too.  This is what I think musicians learn quicker than others do.

Yeah it's kind of like apples and oranges. Or like arguing about what the best emotion is.

My taste definitely fluctuates depending on what I want to feel in the moment, so music taste seems to be a nebulous thing that can evolve or morph as your interests change.

I've had phases where I would listen to one artist or genre and then completely switch to another one. There's can be an experience of "developing a taste" for certain genres. It's a matter of being able to subject yourself to the emotion or energy that the music provides.

Some songs are just so good that they're "timeless" though.

[integral]

36 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You strawman my music as having one emotion. Then you act puzzled.

That's a fair point, let me be more exact of the pattern.

Here I analyze the last nine tracks on the blog.

There's genuinely positive, bittersweet, and sad tracks in there. It's not one emotion.

But the reason it all feels the same is because the other dimensions of music across the playlist are the same.

• Arousal level: low to low-moderate (8/9)
• Tempo: mid-tempo (7/9)
• Harmonic complexity: predictable, no surprises (9/9)
• Sonic aesthetic: atmospheric, dreamy, soft electronic production (7/9)
• Genre family: chill indie-electronic ecosystem (7/9)
• Texture: nothing harsh, nothing abrasive, nothing jarring (9/9)
• Overall vibe: beautiful, gentle, safe (9/9)

Quote

So the emotions change, some are happy, some are sad, some are bittersweet, but they're all delivered through the same sonic vehicle at the same energy level with the same level of harmonic predictability and the same dreamy atmospheric production style. It's like different flavors of the same ice cream texture.

The impression that it is "all the same" isnt about emotion, it was about delivery. And that's actually the more important observation for the contemplation question, because it's the arousal level, predictability, and sonic texture that shape your nervous system state, not just the emotion. The playlist creates one very specific nervous system configuration regardless of which track is playing, and that's what you were picking up on.

- I used Ai to help do analysis for this. Not that it wasn't obvious lol problem is articulating things because you're very specific on language.

In 7 of the tracks the tempo background drum beat is identical. boom tab boom tab boom tab...

It's like giving me nine heavy metal pieces of music and then telling me they're not all the same?

They are harmonic electronic dreamy atmospheric production style. Producing a similar nervous system stimulation.

Edited 2 hours ago by integral

[CARDOZZO]

Rick Rubin Vibes 😂