Some Can't Be Helped?

[theleelajoker]

15 hours ago, Joshe said:

@Natasha Tori Maru @theleelajoker

Thank you for taking the time and your thoughtful replies. I appreciate it.

My case is a bit unusual. I'm no longer a spiritual seeker. I dropped the search because I saw what it offered and wasn't very interested. For a long time, I thought it was a matter of me just not putting in the work. Then, I figured out the path itself is not compatible with how life wants to express through me.

Curiosity + construction + coherence-seeking. That's my engine. It doesn't matter if it's me or God acting these things out. It just matters that they are acted out. From my perspective, whether I experience inner peace or not is secondary to this expression. 

I think life is expressing through you as surrender and peace, and through me as exploration and creation. I don't experience mine as ego - just a different way of participating. I don't treat one as higher than the other. If I wanted to optimize for inner peace, I agree that your orientation would be better for that.

It's possible I just never progressed far enough on the spiritual path and just said fuck it, I quit. But it's also possible the spiritual path can rightly be rejected.

I agree that a higher intelligence is animating all of life. That recognition persists as a hum in the background, but I choose to not amplify it by surrendering my faculties, as I've done that before, to the detriment of what I am. 

@Natasha Tori Maru Thanks for the additional clarifications and your contemplative effort. Means a lot. 

Thx for replying. You do you :)

Only thing: IME/IMO we don't really choose to walk on a "spiritual" path or not. Whatever we call it, it's simply experiences happening, and whatever happens depends on our current psychological/ energetic structure which in turn can only be changed by - you guessed it - experiences

What changes it how we label the succession of those experiences and that's about it. 

[Schizophonia]

On 24/12/2025 at 0:23 AM, Miguel1 said:

I know couple guys who have deeply studied Owen Cook for 10 years, been in all possible events, and still completely in their heads with zero social skills.

This was one of the main reason I quit trying to help people so hard. The ones who get it, will get it.

And the ones who wont get it, wont get it no matter how hard you try.

Perhaps the problem lies in the fact that instead of enjoying themselves and building a life in general, possibly with serious psychological and/or psychoanalytic help, these people insist on going to see a guy like Owen Cook.

Maybe if you, or Owen Cool, or anyone else in the personal development department doesn't have such good results as a coach, it's because it's ultimately crap.

Edited 16 hours ago by Schizophonia

[Natasha Tori Maru]

2 hours ago, theleelajoker said:

Thx for replying. You do you

Only thing: IME/IMO we don't really choose to walk on a "spiritual" path or not. Whatever we call it, it's simply experiences happening, and whatever happens depends on our current psychological/ energetic structure which in turn can only be changed by - you guessed it - experiences

What changes it how we label the succession of those experiences and that's about it. 

I share this sentiment also.

[theleelajoker]

1 hour ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

I share this sentiment also.

Finally someone that agrees with me 🤣

[Butters]

13 hours ago, Salvijus said:

There's no example in history that someone would be eternally stuck to not ever grow an inch. Every experience in life in some way contributes to a person's growth

What about Hitler?

[kavaris]

the other issue is like, or what i want to inch closer towards saying is, as people(s) who arent like, super up on like, wats goin on yet (this is assuming we have like, the most simplest of circumstances, and not someone whos just getting through lots of trauma) cause like... in the same way "more reality" isnt a great way to make a turn around, more "ayauasca" isnt a great way to reach "the routine of not reality wen im awake+ayauasca wen im at s.america/retreat", like, cause the thing you would be looking for is at the entire other end of the spectrum, like... in that same way, when you are lOst in a dream and you are feeling like "plz get me the fk outa this situation", injecting more dream doesnt counter the dream. Like, one of the first levels is sortve like, grappling with the idea of like, injecting more of any one state of mind (while being in said state) is actually counter towards the discovery of how the state of mind was sortve "in ur way" in the very first place, like, iuno, but anyway. thats just a small part of that initial turn around. theres more finesse and nuance that comes after, and "the post language" of that is a little tougher, but id subscribe to very simple things that dont turn into a bad dream kindve thing, like, it also depends... cause like "... can we then conclude that some people simply cannot expand their consciousness in this lifetime?", i mean, it depends on wat we are saying bout said person, and why we think they are *doing wat they are doing* (like again, they could have alot of trauma being peeled away through these sessions, and surely they arent impossibly far away just cause they have trauma to contend w/... often, that gives people the drive to surpass "smart ppl", whatever that means)
 

 

[Loveeee]

Crazy how some if not most people can take ungodly amounts of psychedelics yet remain dead asleep 

[Loveeee]

You just need Mooji's spiritual fluids 

[Joseph Maynor]

People who have a philosophy of not evaluating their philosophy.  But these people can be helped, it just takes relationship, love and time.

[Aaron p]

On 23/12/2025 at 7:34 PM, Butters said:

Some Can't Be Helped?

I've first hand witnessed the power of ideology. I've seen people choose to literally risk death rather than defying their ideas people who believe that COVID isn't as bad as gov makes out and vaccine is more dangerous and the scientific evidence is biased. I have seen people choose decades of mental pain rather than admit that weed has major negative side effects. Mind has power. Just look at catholic crusades, killed millions because of a holy book. Many will choose literal death before they choose to let go of an ideology regardless of how harmful. I think trump is a good example of someone who's not likely to change. 

[kavaris]

It also depends on whats meant/intended by" help", like that could mean/imply anything, and it could be received as anything, like how do we know its not hindering someone to impress upon them what our own thoughts are on "what the best choice is..", or "how we would do it", like, these are areas that really require things to be laid out plainly and worked through, and so im not saying that a retreat is the right place to do that, or that you gotta get a mental health person, et caetera, i just mean like, the details of working through something are what cause this feeling of "they cant be helped " sometimes. ANYONE can be helped, but its like, what does this word, help, what does it really imply or lead to... like that could look like a bajigllion different things. I mean, isnt that what actualization is about, its like, you have to believe that people can be worked with, but the problems dont start out from like, the root issue, the problems start at what i always call "an arbitrary causal point", and uniting two causal points in a person or within there habitual programming is as simple as leaving two notes there, for the person, or for yourselves. So then next time, yous can bring it up again when yous are together. But if its still too tender, to sensitive, yous can just leave it alone. Im just thinking very in depth about it, as i dont truley know what we EXACTLY mean w/ this proposed or supposed dilemma, or who this person was that couldnt be helped.

in conclusion, i believe that anyone can be helped, but it means taking alot alot of time sometimes, abd yous are in the exact right place right now to unwrap that, and to talk about it from multiple angles. Anyone can be helped. But what does help mean exactly? Does that mean that... You should tell someone to "be like you"?... sumthin to think about.

p.s. i just want to emphasize one little important detail, although i already said it ~ and that is the bit about speaking in Plain English, that is to say, trying to go through some sortve abstract route, like a more dreamy retreat~without talking about things out loud is a bad idea, for multiple reasons, one being that abstract-dream-speak is akin to like, being an experienced psychonaut... in other words, its like you have a depressed friend and you offer them this like, mind altering & emotionally taxing adventure... like, its the wrong thing at the wrong time. its like, trying to speak in an abstract/jester/joke-like manner, when the person is really looking to connect the dots that need to be connected, or made less confused about whatever they are stuck on emotionally, physically, whatever.

Edited 2 hours ago by kavaris