Conformity Examples Mega-Thread

[integral]

phenomenology of conformity

is 99% of the confusion in this thread. 

[Human Mint]

@integral Differences in phenomenologies is 99% of debates in this forum.

[Human Mint]

2 hours ago, Elliott said:

Vinyl is different every time you listen to it, no two are as identical, and its not as sharp(artificial) as mp3, infinite variation of your favorite piece, mp3 is exactly the same. Not as varied as live performance obviously, but why do you like live performance over mp3, it's much more ridiculous a question than mp3 vs vinyl, but it's the same sentiment, same with sharpness, mp3 is too 'good'. Fake boobs vs real boobs, more complexity, vinyl has teany overtones that change every time and are unintentional, less man made polish, old jacket or clothes vs new jacket, synthetic vs. Accoustic, aged wine or bourbon.

Listening to the song the same exact way over and over is the definition of insanity! /s

I am like that but with the speakers I use. I like to control where I listen my digital music. For good reason, the experience can change a lot. Some speakers will kill important frequencies.

Edited 5 hours ago by Human Mint

[Elliott]

3 hours ago, Human Mint said:

I am like that but with the speakers I use. I like to control where I listen my digital music. For good reason, the experience can change a lot. Some speakers will kill important frequencies.

And listening to an old album on something of that era that is was produced for, or something new on something old... the 'dirtyness' sound of older equipment.

Edited 2 hours ago by Elliott

[UnbornTao]

Epistemic conformity.

Add 'epistemic' to any term so that it sounds fancier than it really is.

Epistemic disappointment.

Edited 2 hours ago by UnbornTao

[integral]

32 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

Epistemic conformity.

Add 'epistemic' to any term so that it sounds fancier than it really is.

Epistemic disappointment.

Quote

 

Upper-Left — the felt, first-person experience of conformity (what it feels like from the inside)

• Heidegger — the "they-self" (das Man): your default self is "what one does," and it feels like just-how-things-are rather than a choice. Ex: checking your phone on waking — never decided, just what one does.
• Sartre — "bad faith" and "the look": you hide inside a role to avoid choosing, and the moment you're watched you stiffen and perform. Ex: singing in the car, then freezing when the next driver sees you.
• Nietzsche — conscience as the audience moved inside: society's rules get installed and then feel like your own private guilt, judging you even when alone. Ex: feeling guilty resting on a day off, though no one would care.
• Kierkegaard — "the crowd is untruth": in a crowd you sink to the lowest level and lose your own responsibility; the felt relief of "everyone was doing it." Ex: a mob doing what no single member would do alone.
• Stace (mysticism debate) — there's a raw felt experience under the religious labels; the feeling is real, the interpretation is added on top. Ex: the same wave of peace, one calls it "the Holy Spirit," another "Buddha-nature."
• Katz (mysticism debate, the opposing side) — there is no raw experience; the culture shapes the feeling all the way down. Ex: a Christian has a Christian experience, not a neutral one later labeled — the shaping goes to the bottom.
• You (integral) — the operational instrument: anchor-type a single feeling (own history / present experience / group / internalized rule), separate feeling from interpretation, watch it flip-flop in real time. Ex: the praying Christian — nostalgia (authentic) vs punishment-fear (conformist) shifting moment to moment in one prayer.

Lower-Left — the shared, collective structure of conformity (the group/cultural meaning that the feeling plugs into)

• Bourdieu — "habitus": your class and culture install your "personal" taste, which then feels natural and your own. Bridges LL→UL (collective structure becoming individual bodily feeling). Ex: the wine connoisseur's real pleasure at the prestigious bottle — genuinely felt, but socially installed.
• Asch — conformity experiments: people override their own eyes to match a group's obviously wrong answer. Ex: agreeing the shorter line is longer because everyone else said so.
• Sherif — group norm formation: in an ambiguous situation, groups converge on a shared norm that individuals then carry. Ex: people's guesses about a moving dot drifting toward one shared group answer.
• Deutsch & Gerard — the foundational split in why people conform: normative (to be accepted) vs informational (because you assume the group knows better). Ex: laughing at a joke to fit in (normative) vs trusting a review because "everyone says it's good" (informational).
• Kelman — compliance / identification / internalization: three depths of conformity — go along for approval, adopt to be like a group, or fully absorb it as your own. Ex: your own outward (needs audience) vs inward (runs alone) distinction = his compliance vs internalization.
• Leo Gura — defines conformity as anything absorbed from culture rather than self-generated (provenance, not pressure); reasons almost entirely from the collective/origin side. Ex: "hipsters who buy vinyl" — convicted by origin, the feeling never examined.

The split in one line: the Lower-Left people study the group structure and why people match it (measured from outside); the Upper-Left people study how that structure becomes a feeling that feels like you (described from inside). Bourdieu is the hinge — he's the one explicitly showing the collective (LL) turning into private felt taste (UL), which is exactly the bridge your wine and vinyl cases live on.

-ai

 

 

Edited 1 hour ago by integral

[Leo Gura]

33 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

Epistemic conformity.

Add 'epistemic' to any term so that it sounds fancier than it really is.

Epistemic disappointment.

Epistemic epistemology.

[Husseinisdoingfine]

Good lord this thread I started is still going strong.

[Nemra]

Calling Actualized.org a cult.

[UnbornTao]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Epistemic epistemology.

Now that one I like. 

I've been epistemically humbled.