Reflecting on my relationship to this forum...

[Emerald]

I've been on and off with this forum since it began. And truth-be-told, even though I've met some cool people, I never really enjoyed the vibes in the culture of this place... at least not since the very beginning. It definitely isn't the kind of culture that I would cultivate if I had my own forum as it's a pretty combative space... and my philosophy on curating social spaces is about creating a safe container that enables people to be more open and vulnerable.

And yet, I feel quite drawn to coming back here... even though I find it to be a bit draining. And I've been reflecting on this in the past couple days. And I think I figured out what it is.

To give some context, I have always had issues with being aware of and expressing anger. When I was a child, I discovered that anytime I ever tried to stand up for myself it was futile and just made things worse... and it would just add insult to injury. And eventually, I developed this coping strategy of remaining stoic and unemotional in the face of boundary violations and things that I dislike. And anger became my worst enemy.

And this was very empowering because those who might try to engage in verbal abuse towards me would have nothing to grab ahold of. I would just sit there and watch them jump up and down like a yo-yo and cuss and scream and insult me at the top of their lungs... and watch them completely buckle under the futility of getting a reaction out of me.

So this worked a lot better than what was before. As a child, it was just embarrassing and demoralizing when I would try to stand up for myself and it would backfire. So, as a pre-teen, when I decided towards a stance of never getting angry and never showing anger, it was like this shield where people didn't mess with me as much.... and people couldn't get a rise out of me. 

So, it was a powerful stance to disengage and have a perpetual poker-face in combination with coming across as cool and laid back. And it also came with certain cherished identities where people would see me as this really chilled out person who's easy to be around.

And I would receive people unconditionally without push-back on anything... which helped me develop the ability for me to just hold space for people. And this parlayed into something very near and dear to my life's purpose, which is the ability to exercise deep levels of understanding and compassion for why someone is the way that they are... and to see it as always logically understandable as to why anyone is the way that they are.

It's a very merciful viewpoint to hold in a very unmerciful world. So, it's quite valuable to many people.

But in the less aligned elements of this coping strategy (despite its many positives) it can enable a lot of terrible behavior and leave you without defense. And it puts a gag on anger and disgust... and enables all sorts of boundary violations. It's like having no lock on the door of a home with lots of money laying around in it. And if someone comes in and steals the money, I can't even say anything about it because it would feel like I was being un-stoic, disempowered, and no better than cruel plebeian angry masses.

So, it put me in a place where I'd have no choice but to simply quit while I'm behind. And it would temporarily make me feel like a loser and very (whatever the gender neutral term is for emasculation), but I'd reframe it quickly as some kind of stoic strength that proved me stronger and more dominant than them... like a priest that says, "Oh my poor child... you are lost."

And that is always how I'd responded when anger comes up... ignore it, it's futile anyone, let's quit while I'm behind... then reframe it as some kind of stoic virtue.

 And of course, a lifetime of that builds a lot of rage. But that rage gets turned always inward because it's me allowing these things to happen.

And I had even (as a teenager) developed a cosmology where the concept of right and wrong is completely relativistic (for others) but absolute (for me). And I pretended for a couple years to have no strong convictions and that I was perfectly moderate in all ways. My philosophy as a 12 year old was always to stay in the middle of the road... which I framed as a wisdom that arises from detachment but was actually a coping strategy to avoid confrontation.

So, it placed me in this elevated space of stoic superiority, where I accepted all things and was exercising god-like forgiveness to others for their short-comings and trying to practice unconditional love, receptivity, and acceptance of that person.... but if I were to show some kind of flaw (especially anger or disgust towards that person), I'd be very ruthless with myself because "I should do better than others."

It was like, the world can be as angry, frenetic, emotionally weak, terrible, and cruel as it wants to be... because it will only draw emphasis to my own state of stoic detached grace. And by contrast, I will be the winner.

And then there'd be all these fears that I've harmed a person if I even have a mild expression of anger or disgust on my face... not only for fear of falling from my pedestal of stoic grace but for fear of subjecting others to cruelty... as I so hated the cruel and the pain they cause.

So, I built lots of filtering mechanisms that have made my anger and disgust even unconscious to myself. And I check my facial muscles constantly in conversation to make sure that I'm not hurting that other person with unconscious micro-expressions... be remaining hyper-conscious of my micro-expressions.

And it built out this entire superiority complex in my teens around being the one super-human who can accept others without anger or disgust. And this put me in very vulnerable positions in my relationships because I tolerated so much to maintain that superior identity.

But being the graceful one who unconditionally loves the cruel one was the way that I had always coped. So it made sense that this pattern would show up in my life. And I was frequently the target of cruelty... which would strengthen my identity because I built a philosophy of, "Even if someone comes up and beats the crap out of me, I will not land even a single punch on them. I will simply absorb it and stay stoic."

Mind you, a lot of this broke down under the sheer weight of living life... especially when I entered the work-force at 16. But that foundation that I built between age 12 and 16 is still there.

And I still have a hard time with knowing what to do with my anger. I've seen the value of integrating it now since my early 20s. But I haven't gotten over the fear of being the cruel sadistic woman who harms with abusive words and facial expressions... which is the origin point of this whole mess.

I don't want to hurt anyone... which I feel is very easy to accidentally because I interpret people as very very sensitive, and like I exist as a tiger among bunny rabbits. And one wrong move (even a subtle facial expression that reflects a tiny bit of anger) and I will unintentionally split the bunny rabbit in half... even if I make the slightly wrong facial express or use the wrong word. That person will totally implode.

And I don't want to be the 'cruel inferior plebeian' who is too weak to be stoic and kind.

So, that's the context.

But on this forum, there's actually space for this disowned part of me that is sadistic, angry, and cruel... and who delights in defeating others.

And I don't need to show my facial expression or see theirs. So, I don't feel like I'm tip-toeing around bunny rabbits.

Plus, my most effective and sharpest sword is my intellect. And on here, I can have all sorts of intellectual duels with people.

So, what I do is that I channel my sadism, anger, and cruelty and I hook it up to my intellect... which is an effective weapon, and not futile like my childhood expressions of anger.

And with my intellect, I can still maintain the image of stoicism because it's a cold process. And I can channel my sadism, anger, and cruelty through the stoic mask of my intellect.

Then, I have certain rules for dueling that both cloak my sadistic tendencies and mitigate the harm of them, which are...

• I must remain intellectually honest
• I must not use ad hominem attacks
• I must not grand-stand or posture in empty ways (i.e. "You just don't get it the way that I do." or "Well, you're Stage Blue/Red? Green, so..." or (posturing myself like the authority who knows something the other person doesn't) "That's for you to figure out on your own."
• I must genuinely try to help the other person understand
• I must not use logical fallacies
• I must state the source of where my insight is deriving from so as to give my explanation the proper amount of authority in the eyes of the reader (i.e. a scientific study, an insight that I got, what makes logical sense to me, my friend experienced this, etc.)
• I must clean up what I've written to take off any personalized harsh edges... and keep my edginess purely in the intellectual dismantling of the topic at hand.

And so, in this space, there's a ton of nerdy guys getting into combative intellectual arguments with one another to prove who is the most intellectual or the most correct. And I know that I can out-do most of them because of my fealty to intellectual honesty and reconciliation of many perspectives.

So, this forum is like a big intellectual dick-measuring contest... and I have a really big one.  And I like to win.

And it's like bumper-cars... if you're going to participate, combativeness is par for the course.

But in cases where the person has a cruel or ignorant perspective that muddies the water around or enables the plebeian cruelty that endemic in this world, I really take the gloves off. 

In my typical response to this, I receive that person entirely and seek to understand why the person had developed that perspective.

But in this setting, I can just dismantle it... and defeat their perspective. And instead of doing the emotional labor of holding space for a person to be exactly where they are... I can actually express, "This viewpoint is a problem, because it would lead to x, y, z outcomes."

So, I get to draw firm lines in the sand. 

But the sadism piece of this is also present, as there is a desire to cause some pain to those who have a more cruel perspective... or who act as enablers to cruel perspectives. 

And I recall once, when I was in an argument that was in-kind to arguing against cruelty, I was laying on the couch. 

And suddenly an image of myself came into my head of this queen that looks a bit like Helena Bonham Carter's version of the Queen in Alice in Wonderland... but much rougher and colder than that. 

It was this stoic, cold, sadistic mean queen. And she had a look of sheer hatred and disgust on her stony face. Her forehead was high... which fashionable ladies used to pluck their hairline to give themselves a really high hairline and around the renaissance. Her face was powdered. And she had thin black lips. And she was laying in the same position as me and on the same couch as me. She had medium-short curly reddish hair.

It was like this image was showing me this part of myself. It's like, this forum is the only space where I can be her... but also hide her under the guise of the intention of intellectual helpfulness.

So, at the top level, I can genuinely be trying to help... and I always am.

But I am so angry about human cruelty, that there is this cold death mother drive that's somewhat akin to the idea of, "I brought you into this world... and I can take you out... that is if you can't play nice with your sibling or the family pets and you're destroying the house."

It's like this, if you can't play nice, let's just set the world on fire and be done with it. And I can really channel that on here... especially when people are advocating for cruel/foolish perspective and/or perspectives that muddy the waters to enable cruelty and foolishness to continue unchecked.

And it's like I made myself into a dormant volcano of cruelty where I hold it all in to cope with cruelty and defeat the cruel ones by denying them an outlet. But I have had no outlet for that cruelty and anger because the stoic method also gives me the same kind of powerlessness... but the forum gives me an outlet. 

And it's like I can keep running through the process that I needed to happen when I was a child... to have my anger actually win me the fight that I was in the right about.

Edited 10 hours ago by Emerald

[Schizophonia]

@Emerald 

The goal of life is to experience pleasure.

Basically the more you believe you don't have the right to experience "normal" pleasure the more you will, in order to repress pain and remain functional, operate more or less in a pleasure-oriented way, projecting your desire onto others with negative emotions and elevating deprivation to a value system.

Instead of seeking out "normal" objects of pleasure, you will take your frustration and find ways to play with it; this is "sadistic anal" regression, where excrement (frustration) is used as a substitute for the phallus (basically, power, the ultimate meaning behind all objects of desire).

In this configuration, the personality does indeed tend to be more split, with:
- A phase of "retention," which is roughly the default mode; an inclination towards a superficial pseudo-stoicism, routine, a scrupulous lifestyle (diets, religion, politics, etc.), and masochism in general.

-Sometimes there are "outbursts" with sadistic behaviors/thoughts.

Generally, it's men who tend to develop this type of obsessive-compulsive neurosis; but depending on your family structure and early experiences (if you've been treated unkindly), it can shift towards a hysterical (or even psychotic or phobic) configuration, although neurosis is often more prevalent than psychosis.

I'm not saying you're neurotic for no reason; neurosis exists when there's chronic dissatisfaction accompanied by defense mechanisms (projecting things onto others).

[Daniel Balan]

This was a nice read. We all love you, Emerald and we all appreciate your presence here. ❤️

You bring here a lot of big dick stage green combative energy that often stage green lacks. 

I love this forum, this is not an echo chamber for stage green, there are a lot of diverse perspectives and I really like it. I like this forum the most when other people are disagreeing with me and my favorite forum members are those who either help me understand stuff ot the people who challenge my pre existing worldview.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

I purge a lot of emotion and expression here.

I am determined to understand all perspectives.

Posting here has rid me of a lot of shame I never knew I was carrying.

I don't understand the process, only that it is processing  

Always value and appreciate your contributions, Emerald !

[Emerald]

7 minutes ago, Daniel Balan said:

This was a nice read. We all love you, Emerald and we all appreciate your presence here. ❤️

You bring here a lot of big dick stage green combative energy that often stage green lacks. 

I love this forum, this is not an echo chamber for stage green, there are a lot of diverse perspectives and I really like it. I like this forum the most when other people are disagreeing with me and my favorite forum members are those who either help me understand stuff ot the people who challenge my pre existing worldview.

Thank you for reading.  And thank you for being welcoming!

One thing I would say though, is that I don't tend to like how ethical concerns specifically get categorized in a specific phase of Spiral Dynamics... as it puts a box around compassion and ethics that frames it as a lesser "tier 1" perspective.

Often times, people will brush off concerns about the unnecessary harms in the world as "Stage Green" and firmly within Tier One. But the idea on the forum is that it's superior to transcend Tier 1 and move to Tier 2, so it devalues Stage Green, even as most on this forum are fairly Orange-dominant and whose highest leverage point for growth is to open up to Stage Green values (which is what enables me to fight the good fight on here with all the dick-measuring contests).

It's just so easy for people to feel like their perspective is superior to it and discount it as a stage that they've transcended... when they only criticize Green from below and cannot differentiate Green perspectives from higher perspectives on ethics and loving-kindness.

So, it frames any ethical concerns that one might pose as tier one... while tier two is seen as ethically neutral and a more detached. After all, Stage Yellow is a bit like that. 'So, why wouldn't Stage Turquoise operate that way if it's also in tier 2?'

But in the deepest states of awareness that I've been in (like in my medicine journeys experiencing Christ Consciousness) it is very much centered in heart-wisdom and unlocks the ability for deep compassion. And it solidifies the value of loving kindness towards all. It absolutely breaks your heart open in these states of higher consciousness because all griefs and all sufferings are our own.

And it's how I conceptualize of the difference between Turquoise and Yellow. Yellow is very detached, intellectual, and multi-perspectival... and it's like having a really strong effective sword for cutting through to truths from many angles.

But Turquoise is this opening of heart wisdom and recognition of the oneness between others and yourself... and a recognition that the pain of others is your own pain. And to the untrained eye, it can look Green. 

So, if I am approaching a topic (like trying to raise awareness around the unnecessary suffering of animals in the meat and dairy industry)... I will tend to approach it more from a mixture of Stage Green and Yellow. So, if I have a person who goes into a defense about it. I'm going to approach that topic from the vantage-point of, "How can I get this person to see the truth beyond their intellectual defenses?"

So, in Yellow, it's the question of "What are the underlying root causes that make people more likely to perpetuate suffering (or specifically the suffering of animals)? And how can I address those root causes?" And you try to treat the germ and not the symptom.

Like, for humans perpetuating the unnecessary suffering animals... the symptom is exploiting animals for pleasure but the root cause is ignorance (where heart wisdom and empathy isn't extended into the perspective of the animal). And what is the medicine for ignorance? Truth.

That's how to approach animal rights from a Yellow perspective looks... even if we think about animal rights activism as a Stage Green thing.

But in Green, it's more like advocating for particular causes that one sees as "the right cause". And it comes from a political perspective, where there is polarization and you try to get others to hop on your cause through appeals to moral certainty... and you fight it out with the opposing viewpoint.

And because of the polar nature of Green approaches to these sorts of topics... if a Stage Green perspective gets a win, there will be a backlash of its opposite polarity because it doesn't address the real root causes. 

So, Green is a more surface level approach that advances its opposition even as it advances its own cause. But both Stage Green and Stage Yellow can be oriented towards the same goals.

That's why I think there is a tendency to see anyone who is talking about things that pertain to the reduction of suffering as Stage Green... or to view it as some narrow ideology.

And I've had it happen plenty of times that someone who's operating from a space of lesser integrity and lesser awareness, tries to frame my perspective as Stage Green and theirs as a Tier Two perspective. But in actuality, they're usually a mixture of Orange with a smattering of Yellow and a resistance to Stage Green.

And this can muddy the waters and embolden the cruel and enablers of the cruel because a stance against cruelty gets framed as less evolved than those who believe themselves to be in higher perspectives than they are.

What it really boils down to is that I am consistently advocating for that which avoids unnecessary suffering... and what provides mercy to unnecessary suffering. 

[Emerald]

5 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

I purge a lot of emotion and expression here.

I am determined to understand all perspectives.

Posting here has rid me of a lot of shame I never knew I was carrying.

I don't understand the process, only that it is processing  

Always value and appreciate your contributions, Emerald !

Thank you for sharing! I can relate to that a bit.

My posting on here is a mixed bag of things.

On one hand, I use it like a journal that responds (and even argues) back with me. So, I get to get my thoughts out. So, that's helpful.

But on the other hand, I find the there's something that feels draining about it... and like I keep running through a coping strategy of "fighting with the tar baby", but not getting to the under-layers. 

But it gives me a stoic and easily controlled outlet for anger... where I can just do the intellect part.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@Emerald I get it

For me I love using this forum to reveal ego and become triggered.

I allow all my reactions and emotions and observe them. Accurately name them. Find their root cause.

I am always rejecting something within myself when I disown, disagree or have a catalytic conversation. And I want to integrate all sides as an attempt to discern, but not judge. To bring wholeness and unity to my experience.

In particular I often learn a lot when I am prompted to gently provoke others

[Sandroew]

That seems like a pretty fruitful self reflection. Good on you!

[Ramasta9]

Thank you for sharing. I appreciate your honesty here.

I must say tho, i do struggle to read your posts, they are at times very lengthy and full of intellectual back n forth, that often repeat themselves, which I feel and can be done in a shorter and more effective manner, but at the same time I can understand that it may also be a part of your "purging or ranting or releasing" and your way of expression, and that is ok. Its not everyday people on these forums are as honest as you are being here, so its appreciated, that can only bring more authentic responses.

How I see it is, the forum is more or less a reflection of the rulers, owners, leaders of the forums, community, tribe ect.. Its always been this way. How Leo responds and treats and directs others is the biggest influence that creates the ~ripples~ that result in what we have today, for the most part, the moderator team also have a role here but not as impactful as Leo. The larger the community, the stronger and more grounded the leaders / council needs to be.

We had some members in the past caution Leo and others of developing such unhealthy ripples but they were often dismissed, rejected or not taken too seriously, some members were even banned for challenging them, and some were highly respected too like Pluto, who made great posts and brought such a loving vibe to the space, and a few others who had some issues with Leo that made valuable posts people rarely make today, which unfortunately had to leave. I too take breaks because of the toxicity and repetitiveness this forum can become at times. I've come to realize there is no point challenging the system or its rulers, rather being your best example that may help inspire them to change for the better.

This is a more recent account but I have been here for many years on and off and I too remember how it was such a great vibe back in the day, but like all forums, communities, tribes and clans, if the core-crew do not have a solid foundation, it eventually seeps out into the collective.

I personally feel Leo went a bit over-board on the drug-use which created a big scatter in the energy field of the forums, where most people awakening needed grounding and gradual developing of their spiritual roots, rather than blowing their antennas out of proportions. I feel our focus went too far into the cosmos forgetting about the very ground we stand on, which some members have often attempted to remind us over the years.

Nevertheless, as to your suppressed anger and some parts of your post that sat with me, it is very healthy to find ways to release what we have suppressed for so long, otherwise it can come out in explosions rather than a gentle stream of creative passion and play. I used to try to meditate anger away but then realized my partner would run into the bush and scream and let it all out, she inspired me a lot, that anger and suppressed emotions need to be channeled out someway, especially if we cannot transmute them, and i feel its all a part of (being human), we try to 'spiritualize' everything, yet completely neglecting the physical body and things we feel deep down, and rather try to conquer them with our minds alone, when in reality... a long hike in the mountains or running or dancing or singing or other forms of creative expressions in form of a 'physical act' can make the worlds difference.

All your emotions and feelings are valid, as Matt Kahn would say: whatever arises, love that, even your anger  

This video had some beautiful reminders, it may not be directly related but overall love does solve all the problems and answers. And it is easier to love our flowers and fruits in spring and summer, but can we love our roots in autumn and winter? That's where the real enlightenment rests.

Thank you Sister, Namaste 

 

Edited 6 hours ago by Ramasta9

[Leo Gura]

Sometimes a forum is just a forum.

You guys take this place a bit too seriously.

Remind yourselves that nothing you post ultimately matters.

With that said, don't post crap 

Edited 5 hours ago by Leo Gura

[theoneandnone]

21 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Sometimes a forum is just a forum.

You guys take this place a bit too seriously.

Remind yourselves that nothing you post ultimately matters.

With that said, don't post crap 

Ajata not creation has even taken place

[Terell Kirby]

Turn on some good music and vibe out- it's Sunday