Who Wants Actualized Psychedelic Retreats?

[ExploringReality]

@Inliytened1

You should check out ramaji. He draws a model of enlightenment and Awakening from 4 basic levels, the starting point of awakening is no self, and the highest being the Absolute. Seriously check it out, there is a great book he wrote that spells all the confusion and he writes from his own enlightenment journey and I think it will value for you because your someone that has had enlightenment experiences. It's basically a roadmap and eagle view of awakening. It's normal to reach a certain point and slow down or stop. Notice how different teachers and gurus teach from different levels of consciousness. You have no self teachers, cosmic consciousness teachers, devotion to God teachers, solipsism teachers, God as self teachers, and so on. Many facets to Awakening

Edited 13 hours ago by ExploringReality

[Inliytened1]

3 minutes ago, ExploringReality said:

@Inliytened1

You should check out ramaji. He draws a model of enlightenment and Awakening from 4 basic levels, the starting point of awakening is no self, and the highest being the Absolute. Seriously check it out, there is a great book he wrote that spells all the confusion and he writes from his own enlightenment journey and I think it will value for you because your someone that has had enlightenment experiences. It's basically a roadmap and eagle view of awakening. It's normal to reach a certain point and slow down or stop. 

Thank you I will.  But see once you are enlightened where are you going to go. So I can look at it but his path may not be my path and your path may not be his.  But yes it did start  with no--self. What was the final awakening for him?

[zurew]

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

But yeah, even if you decided to meditate for 1 minute and your crown chakra exploded into a supermassive black hole, I still believe you formed a belief to get to that place, but yes in this case, it's probably not a belief you would count as "pathological" in the same vein you would accuse dogmatic Christians of having. But a belief nonetheless.

The other concept that sometimes comes up is 'faith' and even that is greatly mischaracterized by the west.

The idea isnt to believe in something without evidence, faith goes much deeper than just an having attitude towards a given proposition (a statement that can be true or false).

We are talking about 'Pistis' - Its a way of living life, its about how you orient yourself, its the thing that opens you up to have mystical experiences, and its the orientation that can make you virtuous.

Under modern lense I think it could be roughly desribed as 'open-mindedness', but even that is too reductive.

 It can be also described as:

• A mystical union with God.
• A transformative relationship that involves the whole person: heart, mind, body, and soul.
• Something cultivated through ascetic practice, prayer, and the sacraments.

 

Other concepts:

Theosis (θέωσις) – the process of becoming united with God, or "partakers of the divine nature" (2 Peter 1:4). Faith (pistis) is the foundation for this journey.

Noetic knowledge – knowledge not just of the mind but of the heart (the nous), its also known as direct knowledge, or knowledge beyond senses - which is central to Orthodox spirituality.

 

 

But there are obviously other religions as well that even Leo knows about, but he still charaterize these things in a bad faith way and a good chunk of the actualizers just unironically take it as a belief without doing their research on them first.

Edited 12 hours ago by zurew

[ExploringReality]

19 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Thank you I will.  But see once you are enlightened where are you going to go. So I can look at it but his path may not be my path and your path may not be his.  But yes it did start  with no--self. What was the final awakening for him?

In a nutshell, some people go through these states and stages suddenly but for him he did not, it unfolded through a period of time and effort. What motivated him to keep going was his dissatisfaction. Even though he was definitely established and living in a state of non doership or spontaneous action, he was not happy with his State at all and it did not feel complete.

He claimed that a lot was missing. One thing about no self, is that it lacks stable deep peace. It lacks happiness. Eventually that state expanded to an impressive cosmic state where you experience being one with the universe and feeling the universe is inside you. But that didn't satisfy him either. But something deep inside him knew that this could not be the final destination, no self and cosmic consciousness. The next step on his journey after that was the state of not knowing, or a darkness that is impenetrable. Also known as the darkness of the great void, then loving devotion of God, and finally 1000, Supreme Self

Also he talks about how he dealt with the I thought. 

But you can read about his journey from the seeker stage to supreme self. Describes a series of spiritual shocks or enlightenment experiences. And he talks about during these events the ego or separate entity disappeared and was gone for minutes, hours or days but it would always come back. And the whole book is to understand where you are on your enlightenment journey and to not get stuck. Because the goal is ultimate, permanent non-dual abiding consciousness or what he refers to as 1000. 

Edited 13 hours ago by ExploringReality

[Inliytened1]

1 hour ago, ExploringReality said:

In a nutshell, some people go through these states and stages suddenly but for him he did not, it unfolded through a period of time and effort. What motivated him to keep going was his dissatisfaction. Even though he was definitely established and living in a state of non doership or spontaneous action, he was not happy with his State at all and it did not feel complete.

He claimed that a lot was missing. One thing about no self, is that it lacks stable deep peace. It lacks happiness. Eventually that state expanded to an impressive cosmic state where you experience being one with the universe and feeling the universe is inside you. But that didn't satisfy him either. But something deep inside him knew that this could not be the final destination, no self and cosmic consciousness. The next step on his journey after that was the state of not knowing, or a darkness that is impenetrable. Also known as the darkness of the great void, then loving devotion of God, and finally 1000, Supreme Self

Also he talks about how he dealt with the I thought. 

But you can read about his journey from the seeker stage to supreme self. Describes a series of spiritual shocks or enlightenment experiences. And he talks about during these events the ego or separate entity disappeared and was gone for minutes, hours or days but it would always come back. And the whole book is to understand where you are on your enlightenment journey and to not get stuck. Because the goal is ultimate, permanent non-dual abiding consciousness or what he refers to as 1000. 

Heres how it went for me the order is a little fuzzy 

This is kind of how it goes but in no specific orders:

No Self realization 

(Enlightenment- ego death)

The mystical wind - (spirit)   Bliss - Divinity- amazing- miraculous- godlike  - mystical 

Infinity - 

(The God Wind - Absolure Infinity - reeling on the ground for momma.  You are Infinity and Infinity is reality. 

As a result of Infinity  - its Consciousness - Consciousness continues to expand encompassing all. Its a dream.  Everything is ideas not material reality. Mind blowing 

Nothingness. You are Absolutely Nothing ..as a result of Infinity

(Devastating a feeling of complete emptiness)

Complete Omniscience  - grasping it all.  Wonderful.   You grasp it all in one go.

God realization - You are God and are dreaming the whole thing.  All of it is yours. Satisfying.  Complete  

Oneness Solpsism)  self and other duality collapses  - it really hits you now.  Yeah you were God. But you're fucking God.  Like that's it. There's nothing outside of you..

 Beautiful but terrifying. 

Ego returns.  Somehow keep your sanity.

 

Edited 12 hours ago by Inliytened1

[vibv]

@Emerald What I'm getting is that you're afraid of ever being completely isolated. I understand that completely, I really do. But you're also projecting.

[vibv]

7 hours ago, Hojo said:

A woman is scared to be alone for one night. They start making up stuff about people breaking in and stuff. Every sound like an axe murderer waiting to strike. That is insanity.

This isn't true for the women I know.

Maybe try meeting higher quality women

Edited 12 hours ago by vibv

[vibv]

2 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

No that was enlightenment.   The realization of No-Self was the first  im giving you total hours of actual meditation it could have been 16 but definitely no more than that for the whole thing.  Once Consciousness was expanded the door was open.  Further realizations didn't require a practice. I could be driving to work or sitting at my desk.  Or meditating.  The awakenings were over a 2 week period and then again the final one bout 2 months later this time spontaneously although I was doing some meditation in between.  But the main enlightenment happened after just a day or two of meditation. 

Thanks for sharing!

Quote

The final one which you so sorely dispute.  Solipsism. Happened on my way to work actually and I had to pull over. Because I realized I was completely alone.  But let's leave that one out as that was the one two months later 

This is where it gets really interesting! You were alone, how did it feel? What then? Did it open up? What changed since then?

[Inliytened1]

3 hours ago, vibv said:

Thanks for sharing!

This is where it gets really interesting! You were alone, how did it feel? What then? Did it open up? What changed since then?

It opened up like a mofo. I saw it all and i saw that it was all me.  Its scary as hell.  The ego was not there in that moment i was dead.  I was helpless and couldn't drive or do anything.  It had been hitting me in bits and pieces prior to that leading up to the big opening. Which was scary enough but that one moment.  Man. I'll never forget that.  Eventually I was able to come back and drive away. 

Since then all you can do is recover and take back the understanding. 

Edited 8 hours ago by Inliytened1

[vibv]

@Inliytened1 You're welcome  

And the best is still to come. We're not done here yet ✨

Edited 11 hours ago by vibv

[Miguel1]

Leo, out of all spiritual people, does not promote spiritual by-passing. And that's why I follow his work.

That being said, we have to remember that we are on a public online forum - and not writing legal law here.

If you make thousands of comments on a forum every year, some are bound to be more casual. Some sentences are exaggerated for the impact, theatrics, poetic value and drama of it. Some lines are given without all the trillion nuances and caveats that one could point out with it - that's what his long-ass videos are for, and later his book(s).

That just goes with how things work in a place like this. Please consider that, when accusing him of stuff.

[Clvp]

I’m definitely interested! Would love to get some more info

[Terell Kirby]

2 hours ago, Miguel1 said:

Leo, out of all spiritual people, does not promote spiritual by-passing. And that's why I follow his work.

That being said, we have to remember that we are on a public online forum - and not writing legal law here.

If you make thousands of comments on a forum every year, some are bound to be more casual. Some sentences are exaggerated for the impact, theatrics, poetic value and drama of it. Some lines are given without all the trillion nuances and caveats that one could point out with it - that's what his long-ass videos are for, and later his book(s).

That just goes with how things work in a place like this. Please consider that, when accusing him of stuff.

spot on

[zurew]

4 hours ago, Miguel1 said:

If you make thousands of comments on a forum every year, some are bound to be more casual. Some sentences are exaggerated for the impact, theatrics, poetic value and drama of it. Some lines are given without all the trillion nuances and caveats that one could point out with it - that's what his long-ass videos are for, and later his book(s).

At what point do you say that he was wrong about a given thing and it wasnt just memes? Because this is the blind-hermeneutics move that can be applied to  any other thing - like apply it to the Bible  "no dude, there is no contradiction in the Bible, you just need to reinterpret every single thing that you think is a contradiction and  if you cant , well, then you arent conscious enough and or not open-minded enough" 

 

Just checking, because for instance, the video down below shows a vulnerable and desperate dude who is incredibly self-deceived and end up being dead wrong (while having high conviction in the delusion that was acquired through "high" consciousness). 1) Do you think the audience who watched this video ended up taking the message to focus on doing non-spiritual stuff or did they take a message that all their problems will be solved once they manage to awaken? 2) Do you think its good to be an infinite enabler and to infinitely reinforce delusions on the grounds of open-mindedness or just because Leo said so?

Also what do you think, what kind of self-deception managing/correcting practices does Leo engage in? Because the casual knee-jerk reaction where he cant be wrong (you either have low consciousness or not open-minded enough) shouldnt fly in all cases , right? Because that means that he cant ever be wrong or self-deceived even though we have clear examples showing otherwise.

Edited 3 hours ago by zurew

[Miguel1]

@zurew This is where you should do exactly what is being pointed out, which is to use your own mind to make your own judgement.

At the end of the day, the fact of the matter is that majority of society lives in group-think and there is a heavily unbalanced stigma against being outside group-think vs being in group-think, making it unhealthy and toxic for humanity and its survival and growth.

- - -

And finally, we really should respect Leo's wish to keep this thread focused on what really matters and what the thread is about. If we want to discuss this conversation more in-depth, we can start another thread for it.

 

[Carl-Richard]

12 hours ago, zurew said:

But there are obviously other religions as well that even Leo knows about, but he still charaterize these things in a bad faith way and a good chunk of the actualizers just unironically take it as a belief without doing their research on them first.

It's atheists ironically critiquing religion from below and not above.

 

2 hours ago, Miguel1 said:

And finally, we really should respect Leo's wish to keep this thread focused on what really matters and what the thread is about. If we want to discuss this conversation more in-depth, we can start another thread for it.

I felt he was referring to the ChatGPT spam.

Edited 1 hour ago by Carl-Richard

[Leo Gura]

Everything I say on this forum is casual.

I'm not writing a book here.

[Carl-Richard]

12 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

Thank you brother glad to know you're there too.  I wouldn't call it a limbo state.

Rupert Spira calls it "the moth and the flame". The moth is attracted to the flame and wants to get closer to it, but when it gets too close it realizes for it to fulfill its ultimate desire of merging with it, it must cease to be a moth, so it recoils. But it sees the flame again and keeps coming back to it, but when getting closer, it recoils again. Eventually the moth becomes tired of getting closer and recoiling and eventually decides to merge with the flame.

 

12 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

There is no reason to access God Mode so to speak or Divine Consciousness unless you are leaving the dream or you are awakening in my book.  You're awake.   So that's it.

You lack vision, belief 

Edited 59 minutes ago by Carl-Richard

[lnfinite]

On 10/16/2025 at 3:37 AM, Leo Gura said:

God is unbiased in the formless sense. But if God is incarnated as a living organism then it is biased against pain.

God can have biases, but that means God is taking on some finite form.

God wears many masks. Each mask is a bias. God can be unbiased but then God is wearing no mask and then God cannot be seen.

If you want total nonbias then you have to accept total formlessness.

The one thing i have not heard from any teacher is that… This work is the most important work for human beings. Why do they not say this at all, let alone with exclamation? From most teachers “this work” refers to enlightenment and other related things, for Leo it would be God realization and beyond which would be the correct framework because it is the deepest and all encompassing. But i haven’t even heard it from Leo. Humans do things and orient life for meaning, purpose and value and this gets deconstructed as we increase our intelligence but even in the advanced stages, in a way it looks exactly the same with enlightenment and of the like. What am i talking about? That even God Realization has no point or reason as anything else you could do in life. God doesn’t need you to realize what God is, it doesn’t change its infinite nature or any part of its nature whether you do or you don’t. And this doesn’t mean you shouldn’t realize God but simply i am saying that there isn’t an inherent need to do so from God because God doesn’t need anything. The beauty and delightfulness of God can be understood or “had” but in a way, on its own, it already has it, so if something is becoming God Realized it is only valuable to that piece of God(and yes i’m making distinctions to get my point across of something under the radar, god is everything there is no distinction of course). So it seems, everything is only for itself and for the sake of itself including the realization of that fact. So it then seems that God realization is just for God realization and nothing more or less, just like playing music, creating things is for playing music and creating things. Which also says your life purpose can be anything, and whatever you choose would be for it’s own sake. God seems to twist itself inside out saying even i’m not the most important thing because i’m still the same all powerful infinite regardless of what value i have to you humans which it can only have to some THING not to itself but also counterintuitively infinitely valuable to itself because it created itself and supplies itself to itself, so there is no contradiction. As you’ve said Truth is a bias, not inherently but that humans can have that bias. I have that bias. So my question is… is God Realization the most important thing human beings should be doing “objectively”? Is the point of life God Realization? Or the fact that we have the freedom to not care about it mean it’s like anything else and it doesn’t mean anything more than anything else? (And this is inquiring about the nature of things and nothing else, i’m aware of the radical implications of god realization and how it can be positive and change the world and make it more conscious, but i’m not talking about relative means of benefits and negatives for what it can do for the world, that’s a separate matter). Another way to phrase the question… is God Realization the North Star? Is everything else in life including Life Purpose a distraction from God Realization and it should be the priority? This is a deep inquiry and quite dynamic. That being that on the one hand the world needs God Realization and on the other if we went so deep to become God, it leads nowhere as there is nothing to do “there” and no “point” other than to be all powerful and infinite, so we would just “come back as this”. So then there’s life in “the middle” for lack of a better term. What to do there in this dynamic? We don’t want depravity in the world because we love ourselves and life, why shouldn’t we have that bias as humans, that is the design of the trick but yet we don’t want to become God all the way (and not that we would all the way but our trajectory is pushing towards there) because then we will be in infinity where there is nothing to do, no process or finitude etc. 

 

And on the topic of the retreat, what a pleasant gift of Leo to offer. The depravity of some of the members on here in regards to such an offer is to tarnish it, it is a disappointment to see for the value it could be for serious people 

[Leo Gura]

@lnfinite There isn't any kind of point other than whatever you want.

For me the point is understanding reality. But that isn't anything normative. That's what I personally want. Most people do not want that.

There is no normativity in Awakening. You don't have to do it. It doesn't matter whether you care about it or not. Nothing at all can matter. It does not matter what you do or how you live or of you die or if mankind dies.

NOTHING AT ALL MATTERS.

There is no value, no purpose, no meaning, no point, nobody, no thing.

Is the point of life God-Realization? NO!

But if you care about understanding reality then yes.

You do not have to care about anything.

Edited 1 minute ago by Leo Gura