Conservative activist, Charlie Kirk, has been shot and killed at University

[Elliott]

12 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

 

To your earlier question i have a much easier time listening to CNN as opposed to Fox News or my mom's favorite - Newsmax.  That channel is like fox news on steroids.  I can't even listen to these channels let alone put on a guy like Fuentes.  However I did find Kirk's debates entertaining and he made some valid points in them.  So I don't think he was lying at least not in his own mind. But he was so strictly aligned with the Bible that I think it really made him lack nuance in that regard.   But he knew his facts I think its inaccurate to call him an idiot.  

Have you listened to fuentes' actual show and not just rage bait clips? All I had ever seen was rage bait clips until someone here asked me to watch his show and I went away with a completely changed idea about him, extremely surprised and actually impressed in ways. A structurally harmful worldview, but not from hate, and an innocent ignorance about the harms: I will bet money that he becomes a liberal with time.

youtube " kirk getting owned".

Edited yesterday at 01:50 AM by Elliott

[Elliott]

@Inliytened1

The guy is very intelligent. Do not watch him thinking he's like some other commentator or racist, he's a real philosopher. It is not standard racism.

 

 

Edited yesterday at 02:09 AM by Elliott

[Raze]

1 hour ago, Elliott said:

Fuentes is more radical but honest and smart, kirk was a lying idiot.

Kirk was far more competent, he developed one of the largest conservative advocacy organizations and media platforms at in his 20s.

Fuentes only ever makes enemies. He’s alienated almost every other figure with a significant following on the alt-right, his own side.

Edited yesterday at 02:25 AM by Raze

[Elliott]

1 minute ago, Raze said:

Kirk is far more competent, he developed one of the largest conservative advocacy organizations and media platforms at in his 20s.

Fuentes only ever makes enemies. He’s alienated almost every other figure with a significant following on the alt-right.

I don't think Fuentes is trying to build a brand. I think he thinks very deeply and researches things, and just shares what he thinks, like how Leo shares.

[Raze]

7 minutes ago, Elliott said:

I don't think Fuentes is trying to build a brand. I think he thinks very deeply and researches things, and just shares what he thinks, like how Leo shares.

That’s not true at all. He has an entire groyper movement that actually tried to take over Kirks movement through organized action, they call it the groyper wars.

He is a shock jock white nationalist. Only recently he began to try to portray himself as a more compassionate and reasonable part of the right to exploit the Israel conflict to direct anger towards his cause against multiculturalism, globalism and Jews. 

But he’s still so racist he got into a conflict with Candace Owens despite them agreeing on most issues, simply because she is a black woman. 

Edited yesterday at 02:34 AM by Raze

[MightyMind]

48 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Fuentez is a straight up Nazi.

Please stop whitewashing his insane and childish ideas.

How would you define a nazi? 

[Raze]

Fuentes had a long standing feud with Charlie Kirk, accusing him of not being right wing enough, it lead to memes like this
 

 

Edited yesterday at 02:43 AM by Raze

[Inliytened1]

21 minutes ago, MightyMind said:

How would you define a nazi? 

According to AI:

Nazi is defined as a member or supporter of the National Socialist German Workers' Party (Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei or NSDAP), which was the political party led by Adolf Hitler that controlled Germany from 1933 to 1945.

More broadly, the term encompasses:

Historical definition: Members of the Nazi Party who subscribed to its ideology of extreme nationalism, antisemitism, racial supremacy (particularly the belief in "Aryan" racial superiority), authoritarianism, and militarism. The Nazi regime was responsible for the Holocaust and other genocide, aggressive warfare, and numerous crimes against humanity.

Contemporary usage: The term is now also applied to:

Neo-Nazis: Modern groups or individuals who embrace Nazi ideology and symbolism

People who advocate for similar supremacist, fascist, or genocidal ideologies

Sometimes used more loosely (though controversially) as a political insult for authoritarian behavior, though historians generally discourage this casual usage as it can diminish the historical significance

Additionally:

 

Nazis are characterized by several core ideological and behavioral traits:

Core Ideological Characteristics:

Racial supremacy: Belief in the superiority of certain racial groups (historically "Aryan"/white) and inferiority of others

Antisemitism: Systematic hatred and persecution of Jewish people

Ultranationalism: Extreme devotion to nation/race above individual rights or international law

Authoritarianism: Support for dictatorial power and opposition to democratic institutions

Scapegoating: Blaming societal problems on minority groups or "outsiders"

Political and Social Characteristics:

Totalitarian control: Seeking to control all aspects of society, culture, and individual life

Cult of personality: Devotion to a supreme leader figure

Militarism: Glorification of violence, war, and military power

Propaganda use: Heavy reliance on mass propaganda and disinformation

Opposition to pluralism: Rejection of diverse viewpoints, multiculturalism, or democratic debate

Behavioral Patterns:

Dehumanization: Treating targeted groups as less than human

Violence and intimidation: Using force against perceived enemies

Conspiracy thinking: Believing in elaborate plots by minority groups or "elites"

Historical revisionism: Denying or minimizing past atrocities

Symbolic identification: Use of specific symbols, uniforms, or rituals

Modern manifestations of these characteristics can be seen in neo-Nazi movements, white supremacist groups, and other extremist organizations that adopt similar ideologies, though they may adapt these core elements to contemporary contexts.

These characteristics represent a dangerous extremist ideology that has historically led to genocide, war crimes, and massive human suffering.

Are nazis against democracy?

Yes, Nazis are fundamentally opposed to democracy. This opposition is one of their defining characteristics.

Historical Nazi opposition to democracy:

The Nazi Party systematically dismantled Germany's democratic Weimar Republic after gaining power in 1933

Hitler abolished democratic institutions, banned opposition parties, and eliminated civil liberties

Nazis viewed democracy as weak, chaotic, and contrary to their vision of strong authoritarian rule

They promoted the "Führerprinzip" (leader principle) - absolute obedience to a single supreme leader rather than democratic decision-making

Why Nazis oppose democracy:

Incompatible with racial hierarchy: Democracy's principle of equality conflicts with Nazi beliefs in racial superiority

Pluralism rejection: Democracy requires tolerance of diverse viewpoints, which Nazis fundamentally reject

Power concentration: Nazis seek total control, while democracy distributes power and includes checks and balances

Minority rights: Democratic systems protect minority rights, while Nazi ideology seeks to persecute minorities

Individual freedoms: Democracy emphasizes individual rights, while Nazis prioritize state/racial collective over individuals

Modern neo-Nazi movements continue this anti-democratic stance, often:

Advocating for authoritarian or fascist government systems

Opposing voting rights for certain groups

Supporting political violence to achieve their goals

Rejecting constitutional protections for minorities

Promoting conspiracy theories that undermine faith in democratic institutions

This anti-democratic nature is why Nazi movements are considered existential threats to democratic societies and why democratic governments typically monitor and restrict Nazi organizations where legally possible. 

@MightyMind hard to believe Fuentes would be all of this so I suspect Leo's using the term loosely in a contemporary manner but I think this is very dangerous and promotes violence. Adding to the problem if one exists.  

 

Edited yesterday at 02:54 AM by Inliytened1

[MightyMind]

@Inliytened1

31 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

According to AI:

Nazi is defined as a member or supporter of the National Socialist German Workers' Party (Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei or NSDAP), which was the political party led by Adolf Hitler that controlled Germany from 1933 to 1945.

More broadly, the term encompasses:

Historical definition: Members of the Nazi Party who subscribed to its ideology of extreme nationalism, antisemitism, racial supremacy (particularly the belief in "Aryan" racial superiority), authoritarianism, and militarism. The Nazi regime was responsible for the Holocaust and other genocide, aggressive warfare, and numerous crimes against humanity.

Contemporary usage: The term is now also applied to:

Neo-Nazis: Modern groups or individuals who embrace Nazi ideology and symbolism

People who advocate for similar supremacist, fascist, or genocidal ideologies

Sometimes used more loosely (though controversially) as a political insult for authoritarian behavior, though historians generally discourage this casual usage as it can diminish the historical significance

Additionally:

 

Nazis are characterized by several core ideological and behavioral traits:

Core Ideological Characteristics:

Racial supremacy: Belief in the superiority of certain racial groups (historically "Aryan"/white) and inferiority of others

Antisemitism: Systematic hatred and persecution of Jewish people

Ultranationalism: Extreme devotion to nation/race above individual rights or international law

Authoritarianism: Support for dictatorial power and opposition to democratic institutions

Scapegoating: Blaming societal problems on minority groups or "outsiders"

Political and Social Characteristics:

Totalitarian control: Seeking to control all aspects of society, culture, and individual life

Cult of personality: Devotion to a supreme leader figure

Militarism: Glorification of violence, war, and military power

Propaganda use: Heavy reliance on mass propaganda and disinformation

Opposition to pluralism: Rejection of diverse viewpoints, multiculturalism, or democratic debate

Behavioral Patterns:

Dehumanization: Treating targeted groups as less than human

Violence and intimidation: Using force against perceived enemies

Conspiracy thinking: Believing in elaborate plots by minority groups or "elites"

Historical revisionism: Denying or minimizing past atrocities

Symbolic identification: Use of specific symbols, uniforms, or rituals

Modern manifestations of these characteristics can be seen in neo-Nazi movements, white supremacist groups, and other extremist organizations that adopt similar ideologies, though they may adapt these core elements to contemporary contexts.

These characteristics represent a dangerous extremist ideology that has historically led to genocide, war crimes, and massive human suffering.

Are nazis against democracy?

Yes, Nazis are fundamentally opposed to democracy. This opposition is one of their defining characteristics.

Historical Nazi opposition to democracy:

The Nazi Party systematically dismantled Germany's democratic Weimar Republic after gaining power in 1933

Hitler abolished democratic institutions, banned opposition parties, and eliminated civil liberties

Nazis viewed democracy as weak, chaotic, and contrary to their vision of strong authoritarian rule

They promoted the "Führerprinzip" (leader principle) - absolute obedience to a single supreme leader rather than democratic decision-making

Why Nazis oppose democracy:

Incompatible with racial hierarchy: Democracy's principle of equality conflicts with Nazi beliefs in racial superiority

Pluralism rejection: Democracy requires tolerance of diverse viewpoints, which Nazis fundamentally reject

Power concentration: Nazis seek total control, while democracy distributes power and includes checks and balances

Minority rights: Democratic systems protect minority rights, while Nazi ideology seeks to persecute minorities

Individual freedoms: Democracy emphasizes individual rights, while Nazis prioritize state/racial collective over individuals

Modern neo-Nazi movements continue this anti-democratic stance, often:

Advocating for authoritarian or fascist government systems

Opposing voting rights for certain groups

Supporting political violence to achieve their goals

Rejecting constitutional protections for minorities

Promoting conspiracy theories that undermine faith in democratic institutions

This anti-democratic nature is why Nazi movements are considered existential threats to democratic societies and why democratic governments typically monitor and restrict Nazi organizations where legally possible. 

@MightyMind hard to believe Fuentes would be all of this so I suspect Leo's using the term loosely in a contemporary manner but I think this is very dangerous and promotes violence.  

 

That's why I'd like to hear how he defines it. I wouldn't be surprised if many who use that term on here have differing definitions. I agree. Labeling people as a nazi over and over again, people begin to believe it so, and then they think violence is justified, "because nazi's are evil". 

if someone has bad ideas, counter them. Expose them. Deconstruct them. It is much more effective than name calling. 

Edited yesterday at 03:18 AM by MightyMind

[Elliott]

8 minutes ago, Raze said:

Fuentes had a long standing feud with Charlie Kirk, accusing him of not being right wing enough, it lead to memes like this
 

 

Consider Fuentes going after Kirk the same way Leo would go after a charlatan teacher.

[MightyMind]

@Inliytened1 and to understand the term nazi, or fascist, I highly recommend you look at older dictionaries/sources. There are important details not mentioned in newer dictionaries. In particular that fascism is a response to communism and revolutionaries trying to over turn government. 

[Joshe]

Here’s a concise but comprehensive bullet list of the key characteristics most commonly associated with fascism:

• Ultranationalism – glorification of the nation or race above all, often coupled with xenophobia.
• Authoritarianism – rejection of democracy and liberal freedoms; demand for unquestioning obedience to a strong leader.
• Cult of Leadership – veneration of a single charismatic leader portrayed as the embodiment of the nation.
• Militarism – glorification of military strength, violence, and expansion; preference for war over diplomacy.
• Mass Mobilization – use of rallies, symbols, propaganda, and youth movements to unify society behind the ideology.
• Mythic Past & Destiny – emphasis on a golden age to be restored and a vision of national rebirth.
• Suppression of Dissent – censorship, intimidation, imprisonment, or elimination of political opponents, unions, and critics.
• Anti-Communism & Anti-Liberalism – hostility toward socialism, Marxism, and liberal democracy.
• Corporatism – state control or coordination of the economy through alliances with business elites; rejection of free-market pluralism.
• Collective Over Individual – subordination of individual rights and freedoms to the needs of the nation or state.
• Scapegoating – targeting minorities, immigrants, or other groups as threats to national purity or strength.
• Mass Media Control – use of propaganda, strict control of press, and manipulation of information.
• Masculinist & Hierarchical Values – emphasis on traditional gender roles, discipline, order, and hierarchy.
• Political Violence – normalization of street violence, paramilitary groups, or intimidation as tools of politics.
• Totalitarian Ambition – aspiration to control all aspects of public and private life, including culture, education, and morality.

When someone calls someone a fascist, what they mean is, the person supports most of the above, usually unconsciously, without serious examination. 

When someone calls someone a Nazi, what they mean is, the person not only supports most of these list items, but they do so very seriously, consciously, and with pride. A Nazi is a matured, shameless, principled fascist, who can usually argue or espouse ideology/theory/philosophy. 

The Nazi label is fitting for Fuentes, and the fascist label is fitting for Kirk.

It doesn’t actually literally mean you’re a German Nazi, lol. It’s just much more efficient to use the word “fascist” than to lay out this huge list and say “he’s this list”. 

Edited yesterday at 05:14 AM by Joshe

[Raze]

 

[Jodistrict]

Here is from his own mouth - continuously encouraging violence.    Stop the whitewashing of a monster.

 

[Emerald]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It is a classic trope that fascists believe empathy is weak and gay. Don't act otherwise.

Fascists attack and mock empathy. There is nothing new in this worldview. That's exactly what Kirk's worldview believed. Which is why he wanted kids to watch televised executions and why he mocked the Paul Pelosi attack.

Kirk didn't believe in empathy because he was incapable of it, and the same for his king, Trump. Kirk wanted a president with no empathy. He got it.

Yep... pure Skeksis behavior from both of them... and from Fascists in general.

[Schizophonia]

4 hours ago, Jodistrict said:

Here is from his own mouth - continuously encouraging violence.    Stop the whitewashing of a monster.

 

Again, maybe i clicked in the wrong place but i went to a random place in the video and he just says random stuff.

One day I'll be doing politics or something like that and some guys will be digging into my 10,000+ posts to try to convince themselves that I'm bad.

 

Edited yesterday at 09:37 AM by Schizophonia

[zurew]

8 hours ago, MightyMind said:

if someone has bad ideas, counter them. Expose them. Deconstruct them. It is much more effective than name calling.

You can label them and also do all the things you said, they are not mutually exclusive.

Its like saying "dont label the actual Hitler a nazi, because thats dangerous bro, just win against hitler in the marketplace of ideas".

 

You guys need to engage with the fact that people are violent not just because of some label ,but because the ideas and beliefs that particular person holds and the actual plans he executes. Like imagine saying that the reason why they went after Hitler is because the nazi label, and not because the ideas he had and the actual plans he executed.

[zurew]

8 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

hard to believe Fuentes would be all of this

Wait what do you think wouldn't be applicable to Fuentes from your list?

Surely you dont think that he is for democracy, right?

[Elliott]

Fuentes has changed his views on authoritarianism, essentially saying it is a foolish fairytale. In the interview I saw, he says something like 'you might actually call me liberal in that regard now'.

[zurew]

23 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Fuentes has changed his views on authoritarianism, essentially saying it is a foolish fairytale.

That doesnt sound like a view change, that sounds like seeing pragmatic and implementation issues, but that doesnt mean that he wouldnt go for it if he would have the pragmatic means to do so.

Its like some socialist saying that socialism is a foolish fairytale because other countries would need to play by those rules as well.

Edited yesterday at 12:06 PM by zurew