Sitting on benches and under trees

[UnbornTao]

5 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

It might need rewiring of the brain. But maybe you don’t include brain in “body”. If brain produces mind and self then something needs to end that activity, the mechanism that produces that activity. A person with no self might have something different neurologically if it were to be studied. 

 

No. And I do. The brain is part of the body. Beyond speculating, notice that no ending of activity needs to take place, nor is it necessary to engage in yet another process. It's simply recognizing what's already the case. You may think of yourself as needing to be 'fixed' first before being "worthy" of such a "grandiose" event, but that's not necessary. It's what you are now. You’re making up a requirement in your mind, whereas "getting it" is the only indispensable one.

And if you're Leo, you're shit out of luck getting a new haircut.

[Sugarcoat]

2 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

No. And I do. The brain is part of the body. Beyond speculating, notice that no ending of activity needs to take place, nor is it necessary to engage in yet another process. It's simply recognizing what's already the case. You may think of yourself as needing to be 'fixed' first before being "worthy" of such a "grandiose" event, but that's not necessary. It's what you are now. You’re making up a requirement in your mind, whereas "getting it" is the only indispensable one.

And if you're Leo, you're shit out of luck getting a new haircut.

Upon that recognition, which may happen spontaneously for a few, there is a kind of shift that occurs: the person goes from a sense of self to no sense of self. 
 

In that, if it were to be looked upon in the brain, perhaps a difference could be seen (I don’t know because I haven’t read science that studies that)

Maybe it’s not absolutely true; because absolutely there might not even be separate objects.

But it seems the appearance works a certain way. If you drop a glass on the floor it will break : both before and after enlightenment.

It might be that the appearance of the brain gives rise to the appearance that is the mind and the self. So if any of those forms change, the rest changes.

Such knowledge might not be useful. It’s enough to know that certain techniques might increase the chance of at least an enlightenment experience (like meditation)

[UnbornTao]

@Razard86 How are you holding state?

When one's human self dies, what state will he or she be in? See, could you be sleepy and enlightened? The question would be irrelevant in the first place. The notion of "state" doesn't really directly apply to consciousness, as the latter precedes the former. Would you be less (or more) awakened if you got drunk, or if you hit your head on the bathroom counter - or fell in love? There might be degrees of awakening, but those seem more related to the depth of a person's consciousness than to the truth itself. We're most likely already assuming ourselves to be "persons," too, to whatever degree.

State itself is relative. I think you might be referring to (altered) mind states, which are invariably a function of biology - unless you're holding state differently - but how could they be absolute? State involves process and can (and does) change, because it's about perceptive-experience. For example, Sugarcoat brought up the brain. I propose that there's no such thing as "state" without a brain. But again, maybe we're using these terms differently.

It's like the hardware and software of a computer, while consciousness is the electricity - so to speak.

Edited August 26 by UnbornTao

[Hojo]

@PurpleTree every single person on the planet. 

[Inliytened1]

6 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

Sitting on benches and under trees are two of my favourite things to do.

Sitting on benches in busy nice cities.

Sitting under beautiful trees.

Eckhart Tolle was sitting on a bench for months or years.

Buddha sat under the bodhi tree when he got enlightened.

I‘m doing both to heighten my chances you know what i mean?

It‘s lovely.

😀.

Tolle was suicidal though wasn't he?

And Buddha..well..

[UnbornTao]

20 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

Upon that recognition, which may happen spontaneously for a few, there is a kind of shift that occurs: the person goes from a sense of self to no sense of self. 
 

In that, if it were to be looked upon in the brain, perhaps a difference could be seen (I don’t know because I haven’t read science that studies that)

Maybe it’s not absolutely true; because absolutely there might not even be separate objects.

But it seems the appearance works a certain way. If you drop a glass on the floor it will break : both before and after enlightenment.

It might be that the appearance of the brain gives rise to the appearance that is the mind and the self. So if any of those forms change, the rest changes.

Such knowledge might not be useful. It’s enough to know that certain techniques might increase the chance of at least an enlightenment experience (like meditation)

Enlightenment is always a sudden increase in consciousness. It is not a process, even though what precedes it may contribute in some ways - such as by being open and wanting to know. That's the "direct" aspect. Everything you think about in relation to this matter will involve some kind of process, which is fine.

Again, that is largely irrelevant to enlightenment itself. It may affect the body-mind, and these are side effect that come after the fact.

Sure, the physical world we share works a certain way, as does your body. They aren't random occurrences. This belongs to the relative domain. You can't work your way around gravity, for example.

One should actually set aside everything they think they know about awakening and confront their experience as it is - contemplating, usually, the very one they are (or take themselves to be). 

Edited August 27 by UnbornTao

[PurpleTree]

34 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

Enlightenment

So with enlightenment, do you basically mean no self/no story/centerless?

[cetus]

@PurpleTree @Razard86 Sing it with me...

 

[PurpleTree]

26 minutes ago, cetus said:

@PurpleTree @Razard86 Sing it with me...

 

Niiice 🌲

[cetus]

@PurpleTree It's really simple. What you once thought was you, the world, other ect, it's all God/ Heaven happening all around you. If you search for it, you miss it.

Edited August 26 by cetus

[Natasha Tori Maru]

3 hours ago, SOUL said:

Don't let the miserable disturb your peace...it is lovely.

Holy crap - the following is no lie ( @Carl-Richard @Carl-Richard @Carl-Richard )

There is a small bench along the river I walk along each morning. 

I do a 15 minute moment of focused presence (on my experience: feeling, sensation, sound, light and colour) here, each morning, before the insanity of engaging in society takes over.

Today something cold and wet flung out at me (it is very windy in Melbourne, Australia at the moment)

Initially I didn't register anything, but then a strange, moving, cold and clammy wiggly sensation was perceived near my neck.

It was this bastard (below) - so I actually came directly to this thread to post: 'I sat on a bench on a nondescript day, and my experience was one of wild frogs being flung at me while meditating, under gumtrees by the river  ' 

... only to find a frog already waiting for me!!!

 

[Salariatu]

Nobody got enlightened, not Buddha, no humans. They just hallucinated and they accepted the society's ego to live a spiritual experience made up by people, another level in the Matrix. haha. Wake up!

[Inliytened1]

31 minutes ago, Salariatu said:

Nobody got enlightened, not Buddha, no humans. They just hallucinated and they accepted the society's ego to live a spiritual experience made up by people, another level in the Matrix. haha. Wake up!

We used to say that God enlightens itself.

[Razard86]

3 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

@Razard86 How are you holding state?

When one's human self dies, what state will he or she be in? See, could you be sleepy and enlightened? The question would be irrelevant in the first place. The notion of "state" doesn't really directly apply to consciousness, as the latter precedes the former. Would you be less (or more) awakened if you got drunk, or if you hit your head on the bathroom counter - or fell in love? There might be degrees of awakening, but those seem more related to the depth of a person's consciousness than to the truth itself. We're most likely already assuming ourselves to be "persons," too, to whatever degree.

State itself is relative. I think you might be referring to (altered) mind states, which are invariably a function of biology - unless you're holding state differently - but how could they be absolute? State involves process and can (and does) change, because it's about perceptive-experience. For example, Sugarcoat brought up the brain. I propose that there's no such thing as "state" without a brain. But again, maybe we're using these terms differently.

It's like the hardware and software of a computer, while consciousness is the electricity - so to speak.

State is just how reality is appearing to be. With that understanding everything is a state even God consciousness. You can substitute the word state with imagination if you want but it is more easily understood that drunkeness is a state or sleepiness is a state of consciousness. What's harder for a person to understand is human is a state of consciousness, a door knob is a state of consciousness, a frog is a state of consciousness,

Now in regards to holding state, the neurological and endocrine system of the human gets changed when enlightenment happens. Not only did it happen to me but various people who have experienced it have reported feeling it happen as well. For example I feel the neurons firing in my brain as my daily experience. With that said each person's enlightenment will be experienced differently.

[Sugarcoat]

8 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

Enlightenment is always a sudden increase in consciousness. It is not a process, even though what precedes it may contribute in some ways - such as by being open and wanting to know. That's the "direct" part. Everything you think about in relation to this matter will involve some kind of process, which is fine.

Again, that is largely irrelevant to enlightenment itself. It may affect the body-mind, and these are side effect that come after the fact.

Sure, the physical world we share works a certain way, as does your body. They aren't random occurrences. This belongs to the relative domain. You can't work your way around gravity, for example.

One should actually set aside everything they think they know about awakening and confront their experience as it is - contemplating, usually, the very one they are (or take themselves to be). 

It’s not important to know the science (if there is any) of enlightenment because what u gonna do with that info? You already heard self inquiry and meditation works, so you might already be doing that.

It might all be relative, but so is also “contemplating/confronting oneself/ones experience”…

When you are in this relative world it seems wise to do the things that seem correlated to enlightenment (if that’s the goal) even if maybe ultimately there’s no correlation to enlightenment, or anything for that matter! But then you might as well do nothing (which might be beneficial to enlightenment lol)

So I’m not really disagreeing with you..I agree it’s important to confront the very self you identify as because that’s the very “block”

Edited August 27 by Sugarcoat

[theleelajoker]

49 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

When you are in this relative world it seems wise to do the things that seem correlated to enlightenment (if that’s the goal) even if maybe ultimately there’s no correlation to enlightenment, or anything for that matter! But then you might as well do nothing (which might be beneficial to enlightenment lol)

That made me laugh  

[Sugarcoat]

16 minutes ago, theleelajoker said:

That made me laugh  

Aw😄

[theleelajoker]

2 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

Aw😄

Imagine there is zero causality and zero correlation, just the illusion of those two. And every "teacher" every person saying "so and so" is simply wrong. 

Not saying IT IS like that (I could never know) but entertaining this thought make me laugh again  

[Sugarcoat]

41 minutes ago, theleelajoker said:

Imagine there is zero causality and zero correlation, just the illusion of those two. And every "teacher" every person saying "so and so" is simply wrong. 

Not saying IT IS like that (I could never know) but entertaining this thought make me laugh again  

I have also entertained that thought and yea I’m like you I don’t know either. The thing is anything we say is a concept: so you could say nothing is absolutely true

If someone gets enlightened by hearing the message “there’s nothing to get , nothing to do” . How come another person hears the exact same thing and doesn’t get enlightened? There seems to have been a difference in the happening there. And maybe it could be useful identifying that difference.

Even if in absolute truth nothing leads to nothing. We still live in a world that “seems to work a certain way”. So one might as well do what one thinks is most likely to lead to one’s goal : even if that is “doing nothing” which is still a kind of “action”. 

[PurpleTree]

15 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

So with enlightenment, do you basically mean no self/no story/centerless?

@UnbornTao