Biggest Fumble of My Life (DO NOT REPEAT)

[meta_male]

16 hours ago, integration journey said:

Interesting question. Any thoughts on this? 

Only thing I see working is reps under pressure. Doesn't have to be in domain of dating. You don’t fix freeze by thinking your way out of it, you fix it by pushing through it over and over until your body stops hesitating. Then challenges become invitations.

[theleelajoker]

1 hour ago, meta_male said:

Only thing I see working is reps under pressure. Doesn't have to be in domain of dating. You don’t fix freeze by thinking your way out of it, you fix it by pushing through it over and over until your body stops hesitating. Then challenges become invitations.

Thinking definitely doesn't help. That makes it worse, because then scenarios in your head just create more of what's not real.

I wonder how much you can do yourself because I feel there is this inner conflict of  1) the situations and reps you mention and 2) at the same time avoiding at all costs exactly these situations.  I know a guy that does flirt coaching, pays tons of money and he say's he's not making progress at all. And I know similar stories.

The subconscious and the limbic part of the brain can be very strong. Guess you need a system that 1) addresses the body, kinda resetting the nervous system 2) a social component, guidance from the outside that keeps you from your own avoidance and 3) Awareness re mindset, your own thought structure. Then you can go for the reps, kind of surprise yourself and do it before you notice that you are doing it  

But also - just my guess, don't have the perfect solution. The only thing I am pretty sure of is that you definitely need to integrate the body, doing somatic work. 

1 hour ago, meta_male said:

Bro, I'd have to come up with some other problem. Let's say my dream girl messages me and asks me out, I'd be like: something's off here.

Yeah...too good to be true! It's a trap! Get out as fast as you can!

1 hour ago, meta_male said:

Haha alright, I can live with 15 fumble points. Let me not even bring up the time a girl invited me to sleep at her place (too late to head home after date)…and I did, literally just slept there. Sleep > sex (but blue balls). She did become my gf later though, so I guess it worked out and cancels out the additional points of not making a move in bed. 😂 Which proves you can go through life with roughly 15 fumbling points and still win.

Yeah probably she was like "OMG he likes me not only for sex! I planned a ONS, but NOW he's interesting". Sleep > Sex. 

I also think culturally and individually (=me) we have to get away (even more) from "always need to make a move". Yesterday, a girl I already knew was at my place. Sex was clearly implied by us both the way the other meetings went. So, things happened, it was OK, but not was good as the times before. We don't fit long term, so in my head I'm like "OK I think that was the last time with her".

And also I wondered "was I really 100% present and relaxed when having sex with her? Or was I more on autopilot going thought the whole thing, from kissing to foreplay and then sex? The answer became clear pretty fast - I was not 100% in touch with myself, not really present, not really feeling what I want & need right now.   So I am awarding myself 10 fumble points for having sex when I probably shouldn't have. Fumbling my own priorities. 

Quote

BRUTAL. That freeze when you know it’s your moment and your body just ditches when you get cut off. Worst part is walking home and lying in bed after. You can’t even comfort yourself with “at least I tried” because she was like: nah, don’t even start.

Simply yes  Verbal punch right in my face...

[meta_male]

1 hour ago, theleelajoker said:

I wonder how much you can do yourself because I feel there is this inner conflict of  1) the situations and reps you mention and 2) at the same time avoiding at all costs exactly these situations.  I know a guy that does flirt coaching, pays tons of money and he say's he's not making progress at all. And I know similar stories.

Btw, I don’t mean reps as in cold approaching women on a loop. I mean reps in facing fear. Something scares the shit out of you but you gotta do it...you move anyway. Do that enough times and your body learns to stay calm under pressure. So maybe if your friend invested his money into learning how to skydive instead of flirting he'd have more success with women overall.

2 hours ago, theleelajoker said:

Yeah probably she was like "OMG he likes me not only for sex! I planned a ONS, but NOW he's interesting". Sleep > Sex. 

Yep, had a couple women tell me they admired me not going for sex, which I took as an insult because I wanted to be the dude who did and could. But I get laid more when I just focus on getting a good night's rest 

2 hours ago, theleelajoker said:

The answer became clear pretty fast - I was not 100% in touch with myself, not really present, not really feeling what I want & need right now.   So I am awarding myself 10 fumble points for having sex when I probably shouldn't have. Fumbling my own priorities. 

Haha, awarding yourself 10 points for having sex is next level fumbling. But yeah that moment when you know it was the last time with a girl...kinda weird. Makes me feel dirty.

Biggest fumble at the moment is with a chick from HR. One year of signals such as: "I'm looking for something uncomplicated too," and I never made a move cause I was only 99.9% sure. She's gone from warm to bitter. Basically a slow burn fumble, worth many points.

[theleelajoker]

1 hour ago, meta_male said:

Btw, I don’t mean reps as in cold approaching women on a loop. I mean reps in facing fear. Something scares the shit out of you but you gotta do it...you move anyway. Do that enough times and your body learns to stay calm under pressure. So maybe if your friend invested his money into learning how to skydive instead of flirting he'd have more success with women overall.

Yeah, there is definitely SOMETHING to it. Acting despite fear certainly trains you.

But it's also different. I dated one girl that did martial arts, one that did climbing and another once that actually learned skydiving + horse riding (this big beast can be scary, too). And with all three it was clear that fear ruled some areas of their life immensely - and one area was always in relation to other people (scared of commitment, scared of conflict, scared of intimacy, scared of being loved...).

And I know guys that are incredibly cool and calm with some things (boxing, MMA, flirting, business) but freak out in other emotional situations. Seems like life just wants to fuck you one way or another and karma just chooses your fear  

1 hour ago, meta_male said:

Yep, had a couple women tell me they admired me not going for sex, which I took as an insult because I wanted to be the dude who did and could. But I get laid more when I just focus on getting a good night's rest 

Ahh yeah thin line. It get's better over the years IME. If I want yo, I can make a move more often, more determined. And if not I can stay calm more easily. Not every time, as my stories show, but the trend over time is good. That's the good stuff about age and experience, it does have SOME effect (which connects to your first point). When I was younger, I probably wouldn't have noticed that the sex with the last girl was unnecessary ( I did semen retention for one week and did not feel satisfied after sex - then clearly something is/was off ) . 

1 hour ago, meta_male said:

Haha, awarding yourself 10 points for having sex is next level fumbling. But yeah that moment when you know it was the last time with a girl...kinda weird. Makes me feel dirty.

For me it's not dirty, it's more...empty. I love the phase when you meet someone new, and then you can't keep your hands of each other. So it's strange when there's an attractive, nice women next to me and I just don't feel anything. BTW, I think she feels the same. The way she said goodbye was already a big difference compared to before 

Quote

Biggest fumble at the moment is with a chick from HR. One year of signals such as: "I'm looking for something uncomplicated too," and I never made a move cause I was only 99.9% sure. She's gone from warm to bitter. Basically a slow burn fumble, worth many points.

Hmmmmm workstuff is complicated mate. But if you're actually not in touch much work-wise (which would be good reason for hands off), you get 75 fumble points. 50 because it was not a one-time thing but one year. And 25 because if she's bitter, this might decrease your chances with others. Women tend to talk. And if you don't want her, it's not her but you so maybe she creates negative picture of you in her mind. Or you talk to her and have some fun because nobody like to be bitter In this case we turn the fumble points into coupons for Ben&Jerry's

Edited August 25 by theleelajoker

[Carl-Richard]

The fumble of all fumbles:

 

Edited August 25 by Carl-Richard

[meta_male]

4 hours ago, theleelajoker said:

And with all three it was clear that fear ruled some areas of their life immensely - and one area was always in relation to other people

Interesting point. I can't say I didn't build fear of intimacy after getting burned a few times. For me, doing that stuff was about having something bigger than telationships to challenge me. These days, after all the trauma work, it’s bugs that scare the shit out of me. There's always something 

4 hours ago, theleelajoker said:

That's the good stuff about age and experience, it does have SOME effect

What's your age btw? Must be "burning through karma" before you can ease up a bit, ay? And that tracks about her feeling the same way. For me, I thought that empty feeling just meant I hadn't met the right girl yet. If it's gonna stick you gotta be on the same wavelength about way more than just the honeymoon phase.

4 hours ago, theleelajoker said:

you get 75 fumble points. 50 because it was not a one-time thing but one year. And 25 because if she's bitter, this might decrease your chances with others. Women tend to talk. 

75 points is insane, bro. I was in a relationship for half that time, so take 38 off. Plus the girls at work know everything anyway, so she probably knows I only just asked another one out. I'll ask her out sometime soon, so take another 25 off. Puts me back to 13...round it down to 10 so I'm back in fumble tolerance. But yeah, Ben & Jerry's > sex. 

Edited August 25 by meta_male

[Leo Gura]

On 8/20/2025 at 2:02 PM, vinc3nc said:

How many such situations does a guy get to experience in his life???

Thousands, if you do pickup.

Your problem is not that you failed to hit on her. Your problem is deeper: that you interact with so few women that you care even a bit about losing that one.

The solution is to change your lifestyle so that you meet 20 new girls like her every week.

Do you think she cares about losing you? No. Why? Because she meets 20 guys like you every week.

The reason you care so much is because your lifestyle puts you in deep scarcity. You should be meeting hundreds of new girls each month.

BTW, this scarcity also makes you very unattractive because you are going to be so needy and clingy even if she dates you.

Edited August 25 by Leo Gura

[Majed]

@vinc3nc I think the solution here is to stop caring about girls and sex entirely. I used to be stuck in similar obsessions around girls and sex. Eventually you realize that it is an addiction, and that it is not about the next hit, the real solution is to go sober. 

[theleelajoker]

11 minutes ago, meta_male said:

Interesting point. I can't say I didn't build fear of intimacy after getting burned a few times. For me, doing that stuff was about having something bigger than telationships to challenge me. These days, after all the trauma work, it’s bugs that scare the shit out of me. There's always something 

There's always something  Next thing, you not only get used to bugs, you start to love them. You start to love them so much, you will grow them and keep them at your place. You will give them names. And then? You will love them so much, your biggest fear will be loosing them. 

14 minutes ago, meta_male said:

What's your age btw? Must be "burning through karma" before you can ease up a bit, ay? And that tracks about her feeling the same way. For me, I thought that empty feeling just meant I hadn't met the right girl yet. If it's gonna stick you gotta be on the same wavelength about way more than just the honeymoon phase.

38. Yeah, you can call it burning through karma. When I was younger I was incredibly shy, insecure, scared of approaching women. Had a long relationship in my twenties (almost 7 years) but was very inexperienced with women until my early 30s. Also, I was not very good at socializing, could only connect to few people. Traveling changed that a lot, teaching was crucial because you HAVE to interact all the time and then Vipassana gave me another jump.

Now it seems that it's one of my biggest assets, women often give me comments and compliments about how I approach people (men, women, old young, rich, poor,....)  I just got interested in people in general + solo traveling, hostels and you just have to become open or stay lonely forever. Great connections and friendliness of others helped me to become more confident.  I have never seen it as " developing game" and I always cringe when people say that because it seems inauthentic to me.

But hey, to all shy men reading this, I am an example that you can really grow over the years re social interactions towards men and women without strategically planning to do so. 

28 minutes ago, meta_male said:

75 points is insane, bro. I was in a relationship for half that time, so take 38 off. Plus the girls at work know everything anyway, so she probably knows I only just asked another one out. I'll ask her out sometime soon, so take another 25 off. Puts me back to 13...round it down to 10 so I'm back in fumble tolerance. But yeah, Ben & Jerry's > sex. 

My bad! The information about relationship was not in the equation yet. Wait, let me turn on the quantum computer....10,7649 fumble points, but hey we are generous today so we round down and 10 sounds alright! 

Let us know how it goes with asking her out! : )  

[Leo Gura]

33 minutes ago, Majed said:

I think the solution here is to stop caring about girls and sex entirely.

That's a trap because it's just ignoring the problem. Your desire for sex and companionship is not just going to go away. You will feel like you missed out.

Edited August 25 by Leo Gura

[Majed]

@Leo Gura Dude i used to get suicidal because of obsessing with girls and sex. Now that i just don't care anymore i feel at peace. Most men don't do pick up, and they don't feel suicidal because of it. My peace of mind is worth more than any sex or girl. Just realize you don't need sex and girls, and you'll be at peace.

[Davino]

@Majed Or maybe find a balanced way of attracting girls. Notice it's the same extreme pattern playing in your mind. First so obsessed. Now you completely throw it out. In some years you'll be obsessed again, just to be feed up again. 

Maybe it's time to find the middle way.

 

Just saying, maybe I'm wrong.

[ExploringReality]

1 hour ago, Davino said:

@Majed Or maybe find a balanced way of attracting girls. Notice it's the same extreme pattern playing in your mind. First so obsessed. Now you completely throw it out. In some years you'll be obsessed again, just to be feed up again. 

Maybe it's time to find the middle way.

 

Just saying, maybe I'm wrong.

Your Right. Ken wilber talks about dysfunctions that can arise from addiction and clinging or from disowning and neglecting some area of our lives. Sex and relationships are crucial for self actualization and shouldn't be repressed just because it's the lower half of human nature, and you just couldn't get some lol

Edited August 25 by ExploringReality

[BlessedLion]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That's a trap because it's just ignoring the problem. Your desire for sex and companionship is not just going to go away. You will feel like you missed out.

I think once you’ve experienced it enough you can kinda let it go. The amount of time, energy and compromise sex & companionship require is quite staggering. Investing thousands of hours, dollars and energy units into that now seems very much not worth it. I’ll keep myself open for someone really aligned but I don’t feel a gaping hole where a woman should be 

Edited August 25 by BlessedLion

[Leo Gura]

19 minutes ago, BlessedLion said:

I think once you’ve experienced it enough you can kinda let it go.

This is very different from craving it and not being able to get it.

If you don't want it then there is no problem. But don't kid yourself about not wanting it.

Also, as you get older you might want companshionship more, not less. Depends. It's hard to predict.

Edited August 26 by Leo Gura

[BlessedLion]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

This is very different from craving it and not being able to get it.

True. Honestly as I’ve done more work on myself and gone down this path I’ve had LESS sex. I was getting laid way more when I was unconscious. I have an opening for someone truly aligned but my standards are quite high. Many of the women I’ve dated recently (while wonderful women) have felt ultimately like a net negative to my joy and freedom.

 

I do question if it’s actually a necessary part of life/being whole 

[AION]

8 hours ago, BlessedLion said:

True. Honestly as I’ve done more work on myself and gone down this path I’ve had LESS sex. I was getting laid way more when I was unconscious. I have an opening for someone truly aligned but my standards are quite high. Many of the women I’ve dated recently (while wonderful women) have felt ultimately like a net negative to my joy and freedom.

 

I do question if it’s actually a necessary part of life/being whole 

Relationship is sacrifice too. It is not only about how much can I get for myself. If everybody thought like that there wouldn’t be relationships and kids. 

[meta_male]

14 hours ago, theleelajoker said:

But hey, to all shy men reading this, I am an example that you can really grow over the years re social interactions towards men and women without strategically planning to do so. 

Agreed, game is a cringe word. You look robotic if you strategize every move instead of just living and connecting. But when you haven’t had success, it’s easy to think you need to overcompensate with pickup. That's why PUAs are the biggest creeps. Pure inauthenticity and desperation. 

35 minutes ago, AION said:

Relationship is sacrifice too. It is not only about how much can I get for myself. If everybody thought like that there wouldn’t be relationships and kids. 

Nah, relationships aren’t built on sacrifice...they’re built on people wanting something for themselves. If it was really about sacrifice people wouldn’t be pumping out kids into an overpopulated world.

[Schizophonia]

11 hours ago, BlessedLion said:

I do question if it’s actually a necessary part of life/being whole 

I was playing at asking myself the question to realize that my subconscious was in fact completely obsessed to the point of not being able to talk to a girl without imagining myself fucking her doggy style meanly, making dirty jokes constantly even with parents, watch several porn movies a day etc.

Edited August 26 by Schizophonia

[AION]

1 hour ago, Schizophonia said:

I was playing at asking myself the question to realize that my subconscious was in fact completely obsessed to the point of not being able to talk to a girl without imagining myself fucking her doggy style meanly, making dirty jokes constantly even with parents, watch several porn movies a day etc.

Meanly 🫣

 

3 hours ago, meta_male said:

Agreed, game is a cringe word. You look robotic if you strategize every move instead of just living and connecting. But when you haven’t had success, it’s easy to think you need to overcompensate with pickup. That's why PUAs are the biggest creeps. Pure inauthenticity and desperation. 

Nah, relationships aren’t built on sacrifice...they’re built on people wanting something for themselves. If it was really about sacrifice people wouldn’t be pumping out kids into an overpopulated world.

Kids don’t make sense for selfish people. It is purely sacrifice which selfish people don’t want to do thus the population decline you dummy.  

Edited August 26 by AION