Reality vs. Consciousness (Chicken-Egg Problem)

[Sugarcoat]

3 minutes ago, Someone here said:

No . The suffering of this life is one thing and religious hell is something else . Its a blazing boiling lava and fireworks that will make your body go through a pain orgasm .

My life is not that.

Good for you …

Even if life for most isn’t like religious hell people go through a kind of hell still. Chronic diseases etc

[James123]

6 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@James123 what is hell ? 

Hell is an attachment. However, if you are attached with any belief, experience etc... hell is a place that, that any belief therefore, you, is burning to ashes, actually not even ashes, till nothing left from you.

[Someone here]

@Sugarcoat

7 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

Good for you …

Even if life for most isn’t like religious hell people go through a kind of hell still. Chronic diseases etc

so what ? I stopped caring. I experience excruciating pain in my chest and lungs because of smoking intensely for 9 years .  I Haven't done a check-up but im 100% certain that I have a cancer tumor.  Yet ..I stil smoke everyday like a mofo .

[Sugarcoat]

3 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@Sugarcoat

so what ? I stopped caring. I experience excruciating pain in my chest and lungs because of smoking intensely for 9 years .  I Haven't done a check-up but im 100% certain that I have a cancer tumor.  Yet ..I stil smoke everyday like a mofo .

You have developed a strong mindset then. Good for you

[Someone here]

4 minutes ago, James123 said:

Hell is an attachment. However, if you are attached with any belief, experience etc... hell is a place that, that any belief therefore, you, is burning to ashes, actually not even ashes, till nothing left from you.

So is hell metaphorical or literal/actual? 

As in ..hell refers to attachment to ego...or hell is a fire you gonna burn in after you die because you jerk off to hentai porn and that makes god angry? 

[Xonas Pitfall]

38 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Sure, because although everything you've said is true, they are positive properties that define "something," and therefore close the doors of your perception. The absolute total can only have a negative definition: limitlessness. Or redundant: absolute total.

What is sought is the total rupture of the human structure to achieve total openness to the absolute. The rupture must be TOTAL ,leaving nothing behind. Consciousness, intelligence, whatever, are structural frameworks of the human mind. They are not false; they are structures, and structure is synonymous with limit. They seem like open, unlimited structures, but they are not. It is extremely subtle. It is not about having a debate to define what reality is, but about adopting the energetic vibration that allows for openness. It is a fact, not a definition.

What do you think would be a better definition, pointer, or expression for it?

[Breakingthewall]

5 minutes ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

What do you think would be a better definition, pointer, or expression for it?

You could say open, bottomless, alive, truth, total, everything, limitless, you. 

But conciousness is like....closed. Anyway it's just the effect that the word conciousness makes in my mental structure, like limited

[Max1993]

@James123 Why not verify what Leo claims directly? I was at the stage you are at, but I had to bust through it. Glory awaits you. 

[yetineti]

3 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

If consciousness/awareness is reality then what do we call the personal consciousness/awareness that the person possesses and is aware of itself (subject) and the world (object)?

They are both consciousness because they are the same.

It is impossible to distinguish the two with words for this reason.

They are the same, although it feels they are not.

There are differences. But they are the same.

Edited Thursday at 08:09 PM by yetineti

[yetineti]

@Breakingthewall

You’re being overly semantic.

Redefining terms like ‘consciousness’ to fit your view or preferred use may feel insightful, but it is actually a counter-productive paradox.

The stronger your internal framework becomes, the less communicable it becomes.

You’re isolating your ideas by distorting the language used to connect them.

This is not sustainable.

I’d look into ‘The Nine Stages of Ego Development’ and consider the ‘Expert’ stage’s shortcomings. The stage after, ‘The Achiever’ is interesting as well.

 

 

Edited Thursday at 08:08 PM by yetineti

[James123]

53 minutes ago, Max1993 said:

@James123  I was at the stage you are at, but I had to bust through it. 

Where is that I? Did you jump or walk the stages to stage? 😂 

54 minutes ago, Max1993 said:

@James123  Glory awaits you. 

Which Olympics you are at? 😊 Winning or loosing belongs to the self. 😂 

Just Be 😊 

You are it.

That's it. 😊 

[James123]

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

So is hell metaphorical or literal/actual? 

If you are actual (for you), hell is actual. If you be conscious of "you" is a belief itself, hell is metaphorical.

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

As in ..hell refers to attachment to ego...or hell is a fire you gonna burn in after you die because you jerk off to hentai porn and that makes god angry? 

No. Hell is the attachment of ego, body or mind. Actually, it is your own self punishment, with attachment to body or mind. Because , you are not body nor mind. And when you jerk off you attached to them. Moreover, death is surrendering those attachments. And if you are addicted to body (porn is a proof), believe me you will have hard time to surrendering. There is no "me, any thought (including universe or infinity) can not pass there. 😊 

[yetineti]

Hell is whatever you say it is.

[Inliytened1]

@Xonas Pitfall As far as the chicken egg problem think of God as the ultimate paradoxical strange loop.  Thats a feature not a bug.   Infinity can do the impossible because it has no limits.  There's nothing outside of it to limit it.  Anything outside of it is inside of it.

 

Edited Thursday at 11:39 PM by Inliytened1

[Leo Gura]

23 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

@Xonas Pitfall As far as the chicken egg problem think of God as the ultimate paradoxical strange loop.  Thats a feature not a bug.   Infinity can do the impossible because it has no limits.  There's nothing outside of it to limit it.  Anything outside of it is inside of it.

Bingo

[James123]

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

@Xonas Pitfall As far as the chicken egg problem think of God as the ultimate paradoxical strange loop.  Thats a feature not a bug.   Infinity can do the impossible because it has no limits.  There's nothing outside of it to limit it.  Anything outside of it is inside of it.

 

 

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Bingo

I don't want to be jerk or like keep coming on you guys. However, I have a question;

This is what the web says the interaction between knowledge and experience;

"Experience often leads to a more nuanced understanding of a subject, but one can have knowledge without having had the corresponding experience."

According to your experience; mind takes psychedelics and experience, become or realize one's true self or absolute Truth is infinity. Moreover, meaning or experiencing of infinity covers anything and everything. Therefore, experiencing infinity covers the mind. 

However, you have already know what is the infinity before the experience, only experience made more connection or understanding with the infinity. Did you learn any new word or language etc... that you have never had a knowledge before the experience with the experienxing of infinity? 

Moreover, have you ever considered that, if there is no mind in first place how one can experience what infinity is with taking psychedelics or sober?

Therefore, absolute Truth can not be experienced, realized or depends on knowledge.

Only, Be.

 

[yetineti]

@James123 

Could you clarify your question?

It experiences it without mind because experience is all there is. Experience, awareness, consciousness, etc. that’s all anything is and they are all the same thing.

You can experience all of this without a mind because the mind is just a part of experience and experience (awareness, consciousness, etc.) is fundamentally the only thing that exists absolutely.

 

 

Edited Friday at 02:10 AM by yetineti

[Breakingthewall]

8 hours ago, yetineti said:

@Breakingthewall

You’re being overly semantic.

Redefining terms like ‘consciousness’ to fit your view or preferred use may feel insightful, but it is actually a counter-productive paradox.

The stronger your internal framework becomes, the less communicable it becomes.

You’re isolating your ideas by distorting the language used to connect them.

This is not sustainable.

I’d look into ‘The Nine Stages of Ego Development’ and consider the ‘Expert’ stage’s shortcomings. The stage after, ‘The Achiever’ is interesting as well.

 

 

10 hours ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

 

I think it's better don't use word to define the absolute, but if we have to use some it's better to use words that are open. Anyway the point in spirituality is understanding what closes and understand that the push has to be towards openenss and dissolution 

What I see is that in modern spirituality the word conciousness is used as sinonimous of absolute reality and it's extremely confusing because conciousness points to a relative idea, being concious of. If you start with a confusing base then everything grows is confusion 

Edited Friday at 04:24 AM by Breakingthewall

[James123]

2 hours ago, yetineti said:

@James123 

Could you clarify your question?

It experiences it without mind because experience is all there is. Experience, awareness, consciousness, etc. that’s all anything is and they are all the same thing.

You can experience all of this without a mind because the mind is just a part of experience and experience (awareness, consciousness, etc.) is fundamentally the only thing that exists absolutely.

 

 

Hey brother.

Thank you very much for your answer.

However, please do not believe what you said. These are all beliefs.

Best Regards,

[Breakingthewall]

3 hours ago, yetineti said:

@James123 

Could you clarify your question?

It experiences it without mind because experience is all there is. Experience, awareness, consciousness, etc. that’s all anything is and they are all the same thing.

You can experience all of this without a mind because the mind is just a part of experience and experience (awareness, consciousness, etc.) is fundamentally the only thing that exists absolutely.

 

 

Exactly, the experience is the only thing that exists because experience=existence. But the reality, the absolute, is the nature of the existence. Existence or experience is the movement of the reality. It's always existence because non existence doesn't exist, but the absolute is the nature of the existence not the existence itself. The existence is movement, becoming. 

Do you see what I mean? Imo is absolutely essential to see that point to free the mind 

Edited Friday at 05:28 AM by Breakingthewall