Reality vs. Consciousness (Chicken-Egg Problem)

[yetineti]

14 minutes ago, James123 said:

 

Brother, The body is a temporary vessel, bound by limits and fragility, and that can feel heavy or painful. Yet Being (Our True nature ) itself is not tied to the body. It is the silent presence witnessing all states, free beyond pain or health. Though the body may suffer, the pure experience of life through it is the greatest expression of love. Experiencing fully, even with struggle, is Being’s deepest embrace. What a gift, what a beauty. 

From Being, this body arises and returns. A precious, temporary gift. Do you know how you move your hand, or does it simply happen? Why focus on pain when the beauty of this life flows effortlessly through you? The body is not you; it is a passing reflection. I too have known great trials, yet I remain untouched. Moreover, pure presence beneath all change. How can you be attached to what is fleeting? Simply be conscious of what You truly are: the timeless, formless Being beyond body and form. 

Our True nature is the pure presence that embraces all without judgment or limitation and love is the natural expression of that acceptance and wholeness. To be Truly Present is to be love in its simplest, most essential form.

Well, at the moment, my true nature has to poop. And it might just be temporary but— right now, it’s very, very real.

Edit: Well said. Don’t mind my crude humor.

Edited Sunday at 08:51 PM by yetineti

[Inliytened1]

12 minutes ago, James123 said:

 

Brother, The body is a temporary vessel, bound by limits and fragility, and that can feel heavy or painful. Yet Being (Our True nature ) itself is not tied to the body. It is the silent presence witnessing all states, free beyond pain or health. Though the body may suffer, the pure experience of life through it is the greatest expression of love. Experiencing fully, even with struggle, is Being’s deepest embrace. What a gift, what a beauty. 

From Being, this body arises and returns. A precious, temporary gift. Do you know how you move your hand, or does it simply happen? Why focus on pain when the beauty of this life flows effortlessly through you? The body is not you; it is a passing reflection. I too have known great trials, yet I remain untouched. Moreover, pure presence beneath all change. How can you be attached to what is fleeting? Simply be conscious of what You truly are: the timeless, formless Being beyond body and form. 

Our True nature is the pure presence that embraces all without judgment or limitation and love is the natural expression of that acceptance and wholeness. To be Truly Present is to be love in its simplest, most essential form.

Excellent brother.  

[James123]

8 minutes ago, yetineti said:

Well, at the moment, my true nature has to poop. And it might just be temporary but— right now, it’s very, very real.

Edit: Well said. Don’t mind my crude humor.

Good luck my brother. 😊 Much love. 

6 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Excellent brother.  

I love you brother, much love.

Best Regards,

Edited Sunday at 08:56 PM by James123

[Davino]

On 26/7/2025 at 0:18 PM, Breakingthewall said:

@Davino

The point is that if your perspective is that you are conciousness and conciousness metamorphoses into the things that appear, these things are unreal, as solipsism proclaims. Then when you say you've realized God, divinity, this God would only be an appearance that consciousness takes on. But then, this consciousness that takes on coherent forms would need to be God to take on those forms. But if that consciousness were aware of itself as God, this very fact would be a mirage, another creation of consciousness. This impossible paradox is resolved in a very simple way: consciousness is simply perception of change from form, and when this perception occurs, it can turn inward and perceive its true nature. The fact that it is perception does not imply that it is an illusion; it implies that it is relative. Relative is not equivalent to false; it is simply relative, like any perception.

Saying that Consciousness morphs into things is not saying they are unreal, it's saying how reality works. Or how you frame it afterwards, you could say things are relative to their particular form.

What I'm saying is that actually consciousness is God. There's a saying from Sri Anandamayi Ma that goes like this:

The point of spirituality is for God to manifest in its Godly form.

What does this mean? God is always already all that is, therefore attainment is but an appearance. At the same time, it's God recognising its own essence as pure Infinite Consciousness what constitutes the essence of spirituality. God can take all Infinite forms, but very rare are those which are like a mirror in mirrors, showing your own infinite and absolute nature. Do you see the dynamic?

Don't fall into the trap of horizontal ever-present reality. Yes there's that facet of Awakening. There's also the facet of Peak Infinite Godly Consciousness. Just saying, all those who've realized it say it's the best. I've seen it all, nothing beats God. Infinite Consciousness is what you thought the end of spirituality, when it happens you realise: oh... It's only the beginning 

[Breakingthewall]

6 minutes ago, Davino said:

Saying that Consciousness morphs into things is not saying they are unreal, it's saying how reality works. Or how you frame it afterwards, you could say things are relative to their particular form.

What I'm saying is that actually consciousness is God. There's a saying from Sri Anandamayi Ma that goes like this:

The point of spirituality is for God to manifest in its Godly form.

What does this mean? God is always already all that is, therefore attainment is but an appearance. At the same time, it's God recognising its own essence as pure Infinite Consciousness what constitutes the essence of spirituality. God can take all Infinite forms, but very rare are those which are like a mirror in mirrors, showing your own infinite and absolute nature. Do you see the dynamic?

Don't fall into the trap of horizontal ever-present reality. Yes there's that facet of Awakening. There's also the facet of Peak Infinite Godly Consciousness. Just saying, all those who've realized it say it's the best. I've seen it all, nothing beats God. Infinite Consciousness is what you thought the end of spirituality, when it happens you realise: oh... It's only the beginning 

I'm not talking about that, but about the ontology: reality is consciousness. This ontology implies that only consciousness is real and that it creates forms because it's playing, bored, or whatever, and these forms are unreal mirages. This leads to solipsism, but it also leads to the idea that your divine realizations of God are mirages of consciousness, just like everyone else or anything else. That ontology is fundamentally flawed. So, if you want, we can talk about that ontology, but without getting sidetracked.

So, If reality is conciousness, why do you think that your realizations about divinity are real and the other things that appears are maya?

Edited 5 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[Davino]

@Breakingthewall What do you say Reality is? What's your ontology? Matter, energy, ...?

[Breakingthewall]

21 minutes ago, Davino said:

@Breakingthewall What do you say Reality is? What's your ontology? Matter, energy, ...?

The reality is absence of limitations, that's the absolute. It's undefinable, but really and absolutely undefinable, because any definition happens in the relation that arises due the limitlessness. 

Then, the absence of limits makes fluctuation inevitable, the change of state with respect to itself, the reflection of the absolute upon itself raised to infinite power. All form is the relationship of the absolute with itself from infinite perspectives. All relationship is logical by definition, since non-logical is non-relation. Relation appears, not because God wants it, but because God is. God is the absence of limits manifested ; everything that exists is movement; static does not exist; it is precisely non-existence.

Existence is an infinite relational flux in all directions and dimensions, and as an inevitable consequence of this becoming, consciousness is, and is infinite, unoriginated, without end, the same as absolutely everything, but it's relation.

Nothing has limits, everything flows infinitely, and everything is, at its root, limitlessness. Enlightenment is the opening to limitlessness, which is not "something," nor is it consciousness; it is the absence of limits, total potential. It cannot be thought, said, described, or remembered; you can open yourself to it because it's your ultimate nature.

 

Edited 4 hours ago by Breakingthewall

[Davino]

@Breakingthewall I'm surprised someone can get this deep without realising the substance of Reality is Consciousness.

I don't think more conversation is going to help us. I'm pretty happy with where we've arrived so far. It's an awakening so nothing will make it but that. I'm happy to understand better your position and I'm in my view it's quite advanced. It just has that serious hole of misunderstanding consciousness and God, regarding the rest it's pretty fine. I would understand not getting God, it's quite rare and difficult, I'm barely starting, but def consciousness you should be grasped as the essential nature of existence. To realize that all your description is actually pointing to Consciousness.

[Breakingthewall]

19 minutes ago, Davino said:

@Breakingthewall I'm surprised someone can get this deep without realising the substance of Reality is Consciousness.

I don't think more conversation is going to help us. I'm pretty happy with where we've arrived so far. It's an awakening so nothing will make it but that. I'm happy to understand better your position and I'm in my view it's quite advanced. It just has that serious hole of misunderstanding consciousness and God, regarding the rest it's pretty fine. I would understand not getting God, it's quite rare and difficult, I'm barely starting, but def consciousness you should be grasped as the essential nature of existence. To realize that all your description is actually pointing to Consciousness.

Thanks for the appreciation, you are one with the will to see until the bottom. Let's see if you see this:

If you collapse the difference between observer and object at a given moment, then the experience completely changes perspective. There is no center, there is the flow of reality. You can't call this flow consciousness because that would imply that there is a conscious center; what there is is reality. Calling it consciousness would be like calling it a motorcycle. Reality is a motorcycle. No, it is reality, it is right now in its unlimited flow, you are it, it is indefinable because any definition divides it. This is the key, it is absolutely obvious, placing yourself in the flow provokes your laughter, it is total freedom, there is no meaning. Any meaning is duality. In the duality there is conciousness because there is two. If you collapse the duality, there is only one and it's meaningless. That doesn't implies that meaning is false, it's real from the dual perspective. From an unlimited perspective there is just flow, and the nature of the flow is the totality, your ultimate nature. Conciousness mean nothing, is the reality 

Edited 1 hour ago by Breakingthewall

[Xonas Pitfall]

@Breakingthewall How do you cope with or understand the inability to manipulate reality that much, even in the highest states of consciousness? Even the highest prophets and gurus didn’t leave historical records of being able to, let’s say, spawn an object in front of them, or even just in terms of things like growing hair, gaining or losing weight, morphing into different forms, or having a strong pigment/race change; just any type of reality manipulation that would be more evidential. This should be achievable at the highest states following the Logic, yet nothing. And by the way, I’m not asking this as an attack point. I just noticed this is one of the main blockages I have to fully embody and accept the "All is Mind" narrative. I find the logic of God fairly simple to follow and to make connections with, but when it comes to my ego accepting some of these truths, it’s more difficult, specifically because of this argument. Considering that it often leads me to believe the logic I’m plotting out is the logic of my perception and mind, not the actual source.

[Davino]

13 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

If you collapse the difference between observer and object at a given moment, then the experience completely changes perspective. There is no center, there is the flow of reality. You can't call this flow consciousness because that would imply that there is a conscious center; what there is is reality. Calling it consciousness would be like calling it a motorcycle. Reality is a motorcycle. No, it is reality, it is right now in its unlimited flow, you are it, it is indefinable because any definition divides it. This is the key, it is absolutely obvious, placing yourself in the flow provokes your laughter, it is total freedom, there is no meaning. Any meaning is duality. In the duality there is conciousness because there is two. If you collapse the duality, there is only one and it's meaningless. That doesn't implies that meaning is false, it's real from the dual perspective. From an unlimited perspective there is just flow, and the nature of the flow is the totality, your ultimate nature. Conciousness mean nothing, is the reality 

Aaaaaaaaaand you are conscious of all of that

Doesn't matter the content or the centre or whatever, you're always consciousness. This is obvious, all day long, always, for eternity. 

Absence of limits it's just a property of Consciousness. Why? Because you can become conscious of whatever. Everything is inside your consciousness. But this will not convince you. The point is to see the whole fabrication of reality for what it is, pure consciousness in front of your eyes. 

This whole 3D field of experience is the state and space of consciousness. All are sensations and hence every configuration is possible (absence of limitations).

It's like an infinite 360° 4k plasma TV. It can play anything on it. That's consciousness, this is the film! 

[Breakingthewall]

4 minutes ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

@Breakingthewall How do you cope with or understand the inability to manipulate reality that much, even in the highest states of consciousness? Even the highest prophets and gurus didn’t leave historical records of being able to, let’s say, spawn an object in front of them, or even just in terms of things like growing hair, gaining or losing weight, morphing into different forms, or having a strong pigment/race change; just any type of reality manipulation that would be more evidential. This should be achievable at the highest states following the Logic, yet nothing. And by the way, I’m not asking this as an attack point. I just noticed this is one of the main blockages I have to fully embody and accept the "All is Mind" narrative. I find the logic of God fairly simple to follow and to make connections with, but when it comes to my ego accepting some of these truths, it’s more difficult, specifically because of this argument. Considering that it often leads me to believe the logic I’m plotting out is the logic of my perception and mind, not the actual source.

The point It's that you're already doing it. To be the existence is to make it. It's not that you choose, because there is no self that chooses. There is the flow that flows. You, as flow, are flowing perfectly. Every vibration, modulation, change, energetic movement is occurring, and you are that. It's not that there is a will deciding that, it's that the fact that it is, it is the will. It is one, there is no other. Absolute intelligence is exactly this. Each infinitesimal vibration is absolute intelligence and absolute will. It is exactly what it is. Their separation is zero.

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, Davino said:

Doesn't matter the content or the centre or whatever, you're always consciousness. This is obvious, all day long, always, for eternity. 

That's duality, believe me. "You" "are" "conciousness" is duality. In one side is you and in other what you are doing, being concious. Collapse the duality It's just a change the perspective, it's the first step to the openess

2 minutes ago, Davino said:

This whole 3D field of experience is the state and space of consciousness. All are sensations and hence every configuration is possible (absence of limitations).

That also. "Sensation" is duality. Why you don't see it? 😂 Sensation is an appearance, same than conciousness, just seem that you are concious of something, it's real in the duality, but from a step back it's totally meaningless, if there is no difference from perceptor and perception there is no conciousness. It's impossible to transmit that idea, you have to collapse the duality absolutely totally, it's very difficult, like stopping to being you, absolutely dissolve the self. The real game. Then the absolute can manifest, the totality. Your mind must be a hole without structure. "Conciousness" is fucking structure 

[Davino]

10 minutes ago, Xonas Pitfall said:

Even the highest prophets and gurus didn’t leave historical records of being able to, let’s say, spawn an object in front of them

Forget past prophets. Just a few decades ago Satya Sai Baba was manifesting objects out of thin air. Aren't you aware of it? You haven't done your homework. There are many others as well. But your mind will come with excuses for why that is fake and impossible. Or maybe all videos are fake after all.

 

 

 

[Davino]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

That's duality, believe me. "You" "are" "conciousness" is duality. In one side is you and in other what you are doing, being concious. Collapse the duality It's just a change the perspective, it's the first step to the openess

That also. "Sensation" is duality. Why you don't see it? 😂 Sensation is an appearance, same than conciousness, just seem that you are concious of something, it's real in the duality, but from a step back it's totally meaningless, if there is no difference from perceptor and perception there is no conciousness. It's impossible to transmit that idea, you have to collapse the duality absolutely totally, it's very difficult, like stopping to being you, absolutely dissolve the self. The real game. Then the absolute can manifest, the totality. Your mind must be a hole without structure. "Conciousness" is fucking structure 

I talk this way because of the limitations of language. 

Collapsing all multiplicities ends in an Infinite Singularity of Consciousness.

There's no way around consciousness, because existence is consciousness. It's such a simple point. You need to recognise what is existence. The point is if you recognise Oneness then you have to see what is the one substance? you'll realize it's consciousness. You really don't know the substance of reality, see that. It's important to realise this facet of substance or essence of reality, the groundless ground.

[Breakingthewall]

5 minutes ago, Davino said:

Forget past prophets. Just a few decades ago Satya Sai Baba was manifesting objects out of thin air. Aren't you aware of it? You haven't done your homework. There are many others as well. But your mind will come with excuses for why that is fake and impossible. Or maybe all videos are fake after all.

All is false, no one did in a laboratory 

[Davino]

15 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

All is false, no one did in a laboratory 

I'm sure someone did it. Absence of limits means, that is possible.

[Breakingthewall]

19 minutes ago, Davino said:

I'm sure someone did it. Absence of limits means, that is possible.

means that the nature of reality is unlimited potential, and from it existence arises as infinite coherent relations developing as a becoming, and in that becoming everything that happens is absolutely synchronized with the totality of the form, nothing is independent, everything is interconnected, a breath has a butterfly effect that reach everything, and everything has to allow that breath 

Edited 2 minutes ago by Breakingthewall