Monk says psychedelics have no enlighthenment value

[PolyPeter]

Hi forum !! I hope you are doing epic 

Recently, I came across this well-articulated human, who says very confidently that psychedelics, and psychedelic experiences add no value to getting one into "the path". 

He tries to use Logic to create a narrative to prove the point, but I find it vague and misleading. 

He says he has the authority to talk because of experience, in the past he took "almost every drug". He is not telling you which or how much or how many times (which makes me doubt instantly).

I feel like I he is missing a lot from what's the real value of psychedelics, alongside meditation! 

Mind experiment: If you ever come across this human, and get to talk with him and he says this things. What would you say to him, in order to truly start to understand what psychedelics can offer, if used properly as tools?

I thought that the clinginess that he refers to, is the same clinginess that he has, by not letting go of the idea that psychedelics are essentially bad and just appearances. 
 

 

 

[Leo Gura]

He didn't use them correctly.

[CosmicExplorer]

Timestamped:

 

[Inliytened1]

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

He didn't use them correctly.

Let's be honest.  If they lead to enlightenment as an Absolute everyone would be doing it.  You had a gift and were meant to awaken even before the tools. 

Edited Monday at 02:20 PM by Inliytened1

[Jodistrict]

I think the best use of the medicines is in healing.  For example, I have a friend who uses ayahuasca to help him live with fibromyalgia.  Of course, healing and spirituality are inseparable.  Psychedelics capture your imagination and can use your memory to simulate an awakening experience, but not the real thing

[ExploringReality]

@Inliytened1 I resonate with this response.

[ExploringReality]

@Leo Gura I swear. I despise "enlightened" people dismissive of psychedelics. Like that one fool on YouTube that was dissing your psychedelic use, I don't even bother to listen to them. Some moron will say psychedelics are just chemicals in the brain and they only change your state temporarily, but ordinary State of consciousness is just neurotransmitters and chemicals as well. You're always in a state whether it's induced or not.

[kbone]

3 hours ago, CosmicExplorer said:

Timestamped:

 

That video more or less aligned with my general stance with the use of psychedelics. It talks about the potentials and the limitations. 

Thanks for sharing.

[kbone]

50 minutes ago, ExploringReality said:

@Leo Gura I swear. I despise "enlightened" people dismissive of psychedelics. Like that one fool on YouTube that was dissing your psychedelic use, I don't even bother to listen to them. Some moron will say psychedelics are just chemicals in the brain and they only change your state temporarily, but ordinary State of consciousness is just neurotransmitters and chemicals as well. You're always in a state whether it's induced or not.

You sound upset, and maybe even a little confused between what states are versus what realization is. I could be wrong, but it's just how the post sounded.

Psychedelics can have their value, but they can't ground you in the present with an innate gratitude. Quite often, people feel the need to persistently seek such gratitude via the use of such medicines.

Metaphorically, crutches also have functional value, but if you feel the need to use them even though you can walk without them just fine, one might notice the psychological component of the dynamic.

[kbone]

3 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

Let's be honest.  If they lead to enlightenment as an Absolute everyone would be doing it.  You had a gift and were meant to awaken even before the tools. 

Are you stating predeterminism is real, then? Slippery slope.

[Something Funny]

4 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

Let's be honest.  If they lead to enlightenment as an Absolute everyone would be doing it.  You had a gift and were meant to awaken even before the tools. 

Leo did like 200+ trips and spent thousands of hours on this work in general.

No, not everyone would be doing it.

 

[Pudgey]

@ExploringReality Most of them are punks. Non-psychedelic users are mostly full of shit and scared. It's easy to get comfortable with most common spiritual techniques, such as meditation and looking at your hand for 1-hour a day. It's easy to put a dress, get on Youtube and build a following and call yourself a monk. But, it's much harder to get mind-fucked by consciousness and get told that you don't know shit about God with psychedelics. It's ego-crushing. 

Edited Monday at 07:58 PM by Pudgey

[PolyPeter]

13 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

He didn't use them correctly.

Pretty much, but what can you say to someone in that position to reconsider their perspective on psychedelics?

[PenguinPablo]

15 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

Let's be honest.  If they lead to enlightenment as an Absolute everyone would be doing it.  You had a gift and were meant to awaken even before the tools. 

Leo was pretty stuck before psychedelics. 

He looks like a totally different person.

I do agree that life itself is every bit as trippy.

And many people I know have these same insights as me or people on this forum while just living their life lol and never really going into spirituality. More specifically, I am talking about my siblings. I guess it could be genetic or something. 

Edited Tuesday at 05:34 AM by PenguinPablo

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, PolyPeter said:

but what can you say to someone in that position to reconsider their perspective on psychedelics?

Psychedelics are essential for deconstructing the illusion of material reality. This is nearly impossible without them.

Take a hit of salvia and see for yourself.

[Thought Art]

18 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

Let's be honest.  If they lead to enlightenment as an Absolute everyone would be doing it.  You had a gift and were meant to awaken even before the tools. 

Well, tha why Leo said “use them correctly” not “they work 100% of the time”. Genetics also play a roll. But, they do in all things. 

[kbone]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Psychedelics are essential for deconstructing the illusion of material reality. This is nearly impossible without them.

They (can) play a role, yes, but more deeply essential is self-honesty, without which all else eventually goes to the dung heap. 

[Leo Gura]

Even if they do not lead to enlightenment it doesn't matter. They are still effective for therapeutic work and deconstructing reality. That is core to this work.

Not everything needs to lead to enlightenment. This work is way bigger than that.

Edited Tuesday at 10:45 AM by Leo Gura

[Princess Arabia]

Some people can just at be highly intuitive and naturally gifted in this arena like myself. Yadi de yadi da. Don't hate. Boing bong. 5meo anyone or maybe some cream of shrooms soup. Don't mind me I'm giftedly silly. 😜🥰

[kbone]

3 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

Some people can just at be highly intuitive and naturally gifted in this arena like myself. Yadi de yadi da. Don't hate. Boing bong. 5meo anyone or maybe some cream of shrooms soup. Don't mind me I'm giftedly silly. 😜🥰

Everyting irie, gonbe irie. 😎🥰