Is it worth it to try and get my family off Trump?

[mud]

As I learn, develop, and as the world heads towards further instability under Trump, it's becoming much harder for me to tolerate my conservative Trump supporting mom and brother. I love them both so much obviously but here and there and at the dinner table it just becomes unbearable to hear them spew about Fox News propoganda and other overblown and unsubstantiated right-wing talking points. My stage Green passion doesn't prove to be a force for them to change or consider things differently. I see them ultimately as victims to the machine and it hurts. 

My mom is someone who was otherwise apolitical for most of her life, but she got tired of CNN/MSNBC years ago and how they would always seem to bash Bush. So for years she's been watching Fox. She's able to retain liberal views on certain things but overall still falls for a lot of right-wing BS at face value. But with enough time and thorough convincing I could maybe try to get her to see things more rationally and big picture again. Stage Blue/Orange

My brother on the other hand, in many ways he is wired differently, developmentally behind his age and doesn't seem to care about much beyond himself. Very Stage Red/Blue.

Recently I've decided that it might not be worth talking to them about this stuff especially because I don't have commentator-level political knowledge and wherewithal to talk. 

Do I set a boundary and walk away from the table, in a way sticking my head in the sand whenever politics come up, plagued by cognitive dissonance indefinitely? Or do I try so hard to educate myself on politics for hours a day so I can feel confident and substantive to try and only possibly convince them? I don't know. 

As someone who went from Stage Blue trump supporter, to orange libertarian/liberal, to mostly tapping Green left nowadays, and starting to access Yellow non-judgement of the stages, I want to know what a good course of action would be. I love my family and I just want them to think critically and not fall for bullshit.

[samijiben]

Use it as meditation non-reactive practice. When they are talking shit, u train your mind to not be emotionally reactive & to remain indifferent. Will help you understand human psychology & politics & yourself better. 

Ultimate solution = move out

[samijiben]

Trying to change someone else's mind is a big NO. Doesn't work. 

[mud]

12 minutes ago, samijiben said:

Use it as meditation non-reactive practice. When they are talking shit, u train your mind to not be emotionally reactive & to remain indifferent. Will help you understand human psychology & politics & yourself better. 

Yeah, straightforward. Although I'm not sure exactly how it will help me understand psychology and politics better. You mean their psychology? And for politics yes I know that where I stand isn't 100% correct on everything and that nuances are everywhere to be found but from my experience getting out of the right-wing, getting down to it there isn't much substance to most arguments. At least in an interobjective sense.

17 minutes ago, samijiben said:

Ultimate solution = move out

In due time.

[samijiben]

When I say will help you understand psychology & politics better, is because observation = most powerful way to learn

If you do practice I told you, you will learn all kinds of shit abt all kinds of things. WHAT you will be learning is irrelevant. You Shall See! Do it!

Again, just observing and not being reactive. Just perceiving, not reacting. Simple. Don't get caught up in the psychology or politics. Then you will have the best understanding of the psychology & politics.

[PenguinPablo]

If they were so undeveloped they fell for Trump, you won't be able to make any meaningful changes.

[mud]

4 hours ago, PenguinPablo said:

If they were so undeveloped they fell for Trump, you won't be able to make any meaningful changes.

For my brother probably but for my Mom I see the same kind of views and local maxima thinking that I had when I was MAGA in middle school. To say that you can't make meaningful changes to anyone who falls for Trump is pessimistic.

[LordFall]

@mud I would mostly ask questions and keep the open mindedness instead of injecting your opinions into the conversation. Low consciousness is mostly based on lack of introspection so if you get them to dig deeper into their own beliefs by sharing them with you in a non judgemental setting that goes a long way I find. That's spiral wizardry 101, you're also failing by considering your stage green perspective superior and looking to proselytize them. 

I would also watch both the Leo videos on understanding the conservative/liberal mind, its a beautiful explanation of what makes people liberal or conservative. Seek first to understand then to be understood. 

[Spiral]

Trying to change people(that don’t want to change) is not a worthwhile endeavor.

Only being objectively right won’t change people’s mind. Regardless of the topic.

Learn to tolerate them, try to understand their point of view. Be compassionate, towards their failures.

[Jacob Morres]

12 hours ago, PenguinPablo said:

If they were so undeveloped they fell for Trump, you won't be able to make any meaningful changes.

You'd be surprised. I've had some conversations where I helped move the needle with some people. Usually their ideology is really baked and there is like 50 philosophies that their ideology is based on but you can probably help with a couple here or there 

Edited June 22 by Jacob Morres

[mud]

On 6/22/2025 at 4:07 PM, Spiral said:

Trying to change people(that don’t want to change) is not a worthwhile endeavor.

Only being objectively right won’t change people’s mind. Regardless of the topic.

Learn to tolerate them, try to understand their point of view. Be compassionate, towards their failures.

How would you approach someone if they have more destructive behaviors agains their own interest? Like heroin addiction?

[Deziree]

They are Tier 1 people and you can't change them. You have to let them be. You also have to engage with them at their level to get along with them or to thrive among them. Their survival agenda is too constricted and non-inclusive.

[Jacob Morres]

5 hours ago, mud said:

Like heroin addiction?

Thats tough. Maybe you can search for books and material of successful heroin recoveries and share that info with them. And also provide them options for recovery like centers/therapy etc.

Ultimately they need to go through the therapy themselves but providing the infrastructure in a low resistance way can help them go through it 

Theres prob also books on how to help someone with heroin addiction that u can pull insight from

 

Edited June 26 by Jacob Morres

[Basman]

Political polarization is now as American as apple pie. Walking out of a dinner because of politics is both hilarious and sad. Social media has been awful for the two party system. 

assuming they are not too ideological, you can at at least soften their views if you can present well grounded arguments. At the root of authoritarian populism is a distrust of institutions and a sense that the technocracy doesn't have the interest of the people in mind. These are valid concerns and Trump has a willingness to say how it is and leans on economic populism at times. He however doesn't actually back any of that up with meaningful action, which is the crux of the argument against him. The issue with Trump and authoritarianism is that they are not for the people but to self-serve. Trump doesn't have a plan and his need for drama is creating chaos around the world. You can like Trump on a personal level but you can also agree that he shouldn't be anywhere near power on a factual level.

It is important that you yourself are grounded in reality politically or you will just be arguing for your own polarized camp. The whole problem is that the information environment is so polluted that the discourse is effectively a dreamland of falsehoods and misrepresentations. You need to elevate yourself above the miasma of left VS right and focus on having concrete political aims.

These are some of my political aims very generally as an example:

• Maintain checks and balances of power
• Effective economic regulation
• Effective immigration control
• Effective military and security
• Effective climate change policy
• Regulation of the information environment

[Twentyfirst]

Did they try to convert you from Biden to Trump? Or is it just you trying to convert them

[Spiral]

@mud It’s the same, be compassionate and listen to them. Help them if they want it. You can not carry the all the worlds burdens on your shoulders.

If it’s your kids it’s a bit different. You are responsible for them in a different way.

[Applegarden8]

You do talk about it when you are making jokes about it or if they ask you. Otherwise, focus on your life and what is right for you. World is large and diverse ecosystem. If they push shit on you, this is where you take a stand. Make known to them that you don't support their views. That's all. If they further gaslight you or are mean about it, move out or tolerate.

[Joshe]

You won’t be able to change their minds. I know from years of experience. The main reason why can be found in cognitive dissonance theory. Things like belief perseverance and commitment bias.

People latched so hard onto Trump largely because of how many times they defended him. Since he was so despised, there were many attacks against him. Every attack against him provided opportunity for them to defend him. Each defense, numbered in the hundreds for most Trump supporters, entrenched them deeper and deeper. The degree of emotional investment involved in each defense also determines how deeply that defense serves to entrench.

You can’t break that. They’ll mold reality around it, unfortunately. 

[Cocolove]

Use it to move into yellow brah and love them unconditionally brah.

At this point they are in a crazy maga cult there is no getting them out of it.

I'm in the same situation. When it comes up, rise above it, float above concept and human affairs and pretend you're watching beavers debate who should be president of the dam and who should be sent downstream to the other dam. 

[Leo Gura]

It would be worth it if it worked. The problem is it's not likely to work.

They would need to care about truth and want to change.