LA Protests

[PurpleTree]

3 minutes ago, Apparition of Jack said:

What morons think is “Western civilisation” vs what it actually is: 

 

Western civilisation is democracy ♥️ free speech 💜 the right to criticise the govt 💚 womens and lgbt rights 💛 separation of state and religion 💜

hihi ☺️

Edited June 12 by PurpleTree

[Apparition of Jack]

1 minute ago, PurpleTree said:

Western civilisation is democracy ♥️ free speech 💜 the right to criticise the govt 💚 womens and lgbt rights 💛 

hihi ☺️

True. Liberalism is one its best developments.

[integral]

4 hours ago, oldhandle said:

You're kinda a massive piece of shit who isn't really gonna convince people that your way of thinking is correct if your favorite thing about Trump being elected is seeing the anger of people unfortunate enough to not have a father figure in their lives.

3 hours ago, oldhandle said:

Why'd you have to single out them not having fathers? Do you know that every person you've seen angry in a video has no father? Did your father teach you to mock those without fathers? U a dick lol

Try to avoid personal attacks in the future, if you wanna destroy someone do it intellectually  

But seriously personal attacks are against the form rules and I'll have to start dishing out warning points if it continues, take care. 

[carterfelder]

12 hours ago, Breathe said:

I used to eat at that restaurant. I left SD a couple years ago, cool that you know it. Best pizza!

He's strong, I admire him for that. But his actions have been questionable lately. Didn't he meet with Bannon on a podcast? I don't know what the fuck that was about.

1) Rape, citing an insurrection, tax fraud, money laundering, cozying up to mobsters, collusion with Russia, friends with epstein

2) You took the bait. The anti-woke agenda was meant to distract you from the above. Distract and deflect, that's Trump's survival strategy.

 

YOU TOOK THE BAIT. YOU TOOK THE BAIT. YOU TOOK THE BAIT. YOU TOOK THE BAIT. YOU TOOK THE BAIT. YOU TOOK THE BAIT. YOU TOOK THE BAIT. YOU TOOK THE BAIT. YOU TOOK THE BAIT. YOU TOOK THE BAIT. YOU TOOK THE BAIT. YOU TOOK THE BAIT. YOU TOOK THE BAIT. YOU TOOK THE BAIT. YOU TOOK THE BAIT. YOU TOOK THE BAIT. YOU TOOK THE BAIT.

 

YOU SHEEP

 

He's gutting the constitution, privatizing institutions that help people, creating policies that will kill and impoverish millions of people, destroying jobs, etc.

The leopard will eat your face too. It's unfortunate that you won't see any of this until it does. But I guess that's how the cookie crumbles. ( SHRUG )

 

WAKE UP

 

That was strategic. They killed it because they knew he'd have nothing left to run on. That and woke-ness. @carterfelderstill would have taken the bait though.

Rape: What specific allegations exist, who made them, and what evidence (e.g., court documents, testimonies) supports or refutes these claims?

Citing an insurrection: Are you referring to January 6, 2021? What evidence directly links Trump to inciting violence, and how do legal findings define his role?

Tax fraud: What specific instances of tax fraud are documented, and what are the outcomes of any investigations or court cases?

Money laundering: What financial transactions or investigations point to money laundering, and what authorities have substantiated these claims?

Cozying up to mobsters: Which individuals or groups are considered "mobsters," and what documented interactions suggest improper relationships?

Collusion with Russia: What findings from investigations (e.g., Mueller Report) confirm or refute coordinated efforts with Russia?

Friends with Epstein: What is the nature and extent of Trump’s documented relationship with Jeffrey Epstein, and what evidence suggests wrongdoing?

Gutting the constitution: Which specific actions or policies are claimed to violate the Constitution, and how do legal experts interpret their impact?

Privatizing institutions that help people: Which institutions are being privatized, and what evidence shows this harms public welfare?

Creating policies that will kill and impoverish millions: Which policies are predicted to cause these outcomes, and what data or analyses support these projections?

Destroying jobs: What specific actions or policies are linked to job losses, and how do economic data or studies assess their impact?

[zazen]

 

[Something Funny]

@Leo Gura correct me if I am wrong, but the issue people are protesting is that those ice raid are just completely random and even people who live here legally are being detained, or even actually deported in some cases.

Wouldn't a much better solution be to have police or even ICE (without masks and ARs) stopping people on the streets and asking them to show their documents (residence permit or visa or passport) and then detaining people if they fail to do so and then doing further checks?

A bunch of masked men with guns doing blind raids seems really fucked up.

The point about protests being violent and people burning waymo cars sounds really weak to me, because out of thousands of people that are protesting there will always be a few that will take advantage of the situation to start stealing and vandalizing things. They don't even have to be protesters, just literally random thugs taking this opportunity. Or you could even do it intentionally to create a bad image for protestors. It's super easy to sabotage any big enough protest like that. By that logic people shouldn't protest at all.

 

[Something Funny]

@Leo Gura to me, the proper solution to the illegal immigration should be:

- make people not able rent or buy an apartment unless they are able to show that they are in the country legally
- make people not able to get a job, introduce serious consequences for the employers who break the law
- make people not able to get a bank account and other basic things like that

How is it such a problem in the 21st century?

[Leo Gura]

22 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

@Leo Gura to me, the proper solution to the illegal immigration should be:

- make people not able rent or buy an apartment unless they are able to show that they are in the country legally
- make people not able to get a job, introduce serious consequences for the employers who break the law
- make people not able to get a bank account and other basic things like that

How is it such a problem in the 21st century?

But they will just do those things through a black market.

You have to prevent them from crossing the border because once they are here they are forced to survive by any way possible, legal or illegal.

[Something Funny]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

But they will just do those things through a black market.

this sounds like an excuse to me, to be honest. The same can be said about taxes. If the government is able to check if your business is paying taxes or if you are paying taxes from renting an apartment, it can't be much harder to do it with checking who you hire for work.

How many people will be willing to hire someone though a "black market" if there are serious repercussions for it? Maybe if you are sending people off to pick strawberries in a field. Not so much if you are running a restaurant in the middle of the city.

Similarly, having no bank account and having to rely on cash alone would make living really hard.

Sure some people will still try to stay and survive no matter what, but I think it will be a much smaller portion of people.

If you think about it, ICE raids won't prevent thugs and criminals from entering the country, cause what do they have to lose anyway? At worst they will just get deported and get back to the same life they are currently living. ICE raids will discourage people who want to build a serious, stable life in the US, possibly settling legally. All of the above things will do the same thing, just without all the cruelty.

 

[Something Funny]

@Leo Gura like honestly, I think that the biggest problem is just that nobody cares enough to do anything. There is no other explanation for how a person can live 20+ years in a country illegally, while having a family, a full time job, a car, a bank account, etc. It's not like they are secretly living in some underground, hiding from the police. Nobody just did anything about them, even if police would stop them, they probably didn't do anything to deport them.

I think this is a much bigger factor than just illegal border crossing.

Edited June 12 by Something Funny

[Twentyfirst]

5 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

Western civilisation is democracy ♥️ free speech 💜 the right to criticise the govt 💚 womens and lgbt rights 💛 separation of state and religion 💜

hihi ☺️

This fascination westerners have with free speech is crazy obsessive. Out of 100 Westerners all 100 will talk about free speech as if it's some god. Maybe it's because Western governments are so violent and such liars that Westerners feel a deep desire and need to be able to have free speech?

[PurpleTree]

27 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

This fascination westerners have with free speech is crazy obsessive. Out of 100 Westerners all 100 will talk about free speech as if it's some god. Maybe it's because Western governments are so violent and such liars that Westerners feel a deep desire and need to be able to have free speech?

I knew you would comment on that. Hihi a bit predictable no? 

[PurpleTree]

But i mean its funny that you call western governments so violent when you had Kadafi, Saddam, Iran, MBS and so on. And yes we need it to keep the govt in check. Don’t trust kings and politicians.

Edited June 12 by PurpleTree

[Twentyfirst]

1 hour ago, PurpleTree said:

But i mean its funny that you call western governments so violent when you had Kadafi, Saddam, Iran, MBS and so on. And yes we need it to keep the govt in check. Don’t trust kings and politicians.

None of the people under those leaders really cared about free speech

Protests don't keep the govt in check 

[Breathe]

@carterfelder I have no interest in teaching you how to learn

[DocWatts]

Timothy Snyder - one of the leading experts on fascism who wrote On Tyranny - is sounding the alarm bells that Trump is trying to incite a second Civil War.

Below are some quotes from the writeup, but I'd recommend reading the Substack article in full - it's chilling.

When people whose job it is to study fascism are telling us that the moment we're living through is a flash point, we should take them seriously. If you've ever wondered what you would have done in Nazi Germany or the US Civil Rights struggle, you're doing it right now.

A second civil war and the reforging of the United States into a white supremacist police state isn't a foregone conclusion, but preventing it requires that we be brave and step up to the moment. That means no more equivocating, no more burying our heads in the sand, no more compromising with extremes that need to be rejected. And no more saying that 'this doesn't effect me'. If you're on a conscious politics forum, you should be more willing than the average person to take responsibility for the current moment, and not watch from the sidelines as a petty, inhumane dictator tries to plunge your country into violence and chaos.
 

RESOURCES - How YOU can get involved in the pro-democracy movement:
No Kings Day: https://www.nokings.org/
Indivisible: https://indivisible.org/
50501: https://www.fiftyfifty.one/

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Trump's Civil War - Timothy Snyder
https://substack.com/home/post/p-165796793?source=queue

"Earlier this week Donald Trump called for a second civil war at a US military base. This scenario can be resisted and prevented, if we have the courage to listen, interpret, and act. And this Saturday we will have the occasion to act.

In general, we imagine that the US Army is here to defend us, not to attack us. But summoning soldiers to heckle their fellow Americans is a sign of something quite different. Trump seized the occasion to summon soldiers to join him in mocking the press. Reporters, of course, as the Founders understood, are a critical check on tyranny. They, like protestors, are protected by the First Amendment of the Constitution. Trump was teaching soldiers that society does not matter, and that law does not matter. He "loves" soldiers. He is personally responsible for the pay raises: "I gave you so much money for four years it was crazy." "We're giving you an across-the-board raise" This is the way a dictator speaks to a palace guard, or a fascist to a paramilitary.

We are witnessing an attempt at regime change, rife in perversities. It has a historical component: we are to celebrate the oathbreakers and the traitors. It has a fascist component: we are to embrace the present moment as an exception, in which all things are permitted to the Leader. And of course it has an institutional component: soldiers are meant to be the avant-garde of the end of democracy. Instead of treating the army as defenders or freedom, Trump presented soldiers as his personal armed servants, whose job it was to oppress his chosen enemies -- inside the United States. Trump was trying to instruct soldiers that their mission was to crush fellow Americans who dared to exercise their rights, such as the right to protest."

Edited June 13 by DocWatts

[Rafael Thundercat]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

But they will just do those things through a black market.

You have to prevent them from crossing the border because once they are here they are forced to survive by any way possible, legal or illegal.

Legal or illegal still is super weird to hear commentaries on the topic from people like Konstantin Kisin like this he just said in his X account:

 

" My thoughts after a few days in the US:

This is one of the reasons that allowing illegal immigration to happen is cruel and immoral.

Inevitably, many people get fed up of it, express that democratically and people who were allowed to enter or overstay illegally end up being deported, separated from their loved ones and having their lives upended.

Some people want to celebrate that this is happening. But this is not something to celebrate - at the human level, what's happening is objectively awful.

Other people want to pretend that the solution is simply to allow illegal immigration to go unprosecuted and uncorrected. That can't happen if you want to have a country. You cannot have some people spending thousands and years following all the rules while others simply skip ahead. What incentive does that leave for anyone to follow the rules? 

The fact that Western countries have allowed so many people to enter illegally is the reason for what is happening now. When those decisions were made, they made these decisions inevitable.

It's the same reason failing to teach children right and wrong by setting clear boundaries of acceptable and unacceptable behaviour is cruel rather than kind as many people think. A child who grows up without these boundaries will be taught those same lessons by life, which will be far harsher than loving parents.

It's always better to do the right thing as early as possible, or the problem gets bigger and bigger and a bigger and bigger correction is then necessary."

Yes, its always better to do the right thing as early as possible, like the rigth things settlers colonizers did with the real legal people who used to live in Turtle Island before being dicimated by the illegal imigrants from every part of the world, British Empire,French,Spanish etc..

Oh, the double standards..

[Apparition of Jack]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

But they will just do those things through a black market.

You have to prevent them from crossing the border because once they are here they are forced to survive by any way possible, legal or illegal.

So why Republicans shoot down a border enforcement bill last year?

[zazen]

29 minutes ago, Apparition of Jack said:

So why Republicans shoot down a border enforcement bill last year?

Probably for the same reason Trump is now calling off raids on farms and hospitality - economic interest. https://nypost.com/2025/06/12/business/trump-says-immigration-crackdown-hurting-us-workforce-signals-changes/

Like I wrote about a page or two back - incentives are the structural driver of decisions, ideaology is the overlay and justification.

The US is structurally captured by economic interests / corporates. We all know this, which is why we bitch about it here and there on this forum - before the conversation gets constantly de-railed into an emotional and ideological left right dialectic.

 

[Apparition of Jack]

1 minute ago, zazen said:

Probably for the same reason Trump is now calling off raids on farms and hospitality - economic interest. https://nypost.com/2025/06/12/business/trump-says-immigration-crackdown-hurting-us-workforce-signals-changes/

Like I wrote about a page or two back - incentives are the structural driver of decisions, ideaology is the overlay and justification.

The US is structurally captured by economic interests / corporates. We all know this, which is why we bitch about it here and there on this forum - before the conversation gets constantly de-railed into an emotional and ideological left right dialectic.

 

So Trump is willing to imprison harmless workers but not the influential businesses that are structurally responsible for them being there? Nice one