Why People Leave The Left

[Alexop]

11 minutes ago, Daniel Balan said:

@Alexop Counter-intuitively, The utopian climate polices that have a big impact on why a lot of people are losing their jobs, thus bringing the far right into power at the next election cycle, undoing every green climate policy that was adopted prior, deregulating business to the point the business can rape the earth of its resources, thus making the climate problems even worse than before the left took those too utopian climate policies. In the end the good intentions of the left, Exploded back in their face because the citizenry felt more bad consequences than the good that was done to the environment. My opinion is that the EU is doing a very poor job regarding the Green deal. To me this is total bullshit. We either do this climate action as a whole planet together or we don't. What The EU is doing right now is making sure that they will lose all the elections in the near future. Even if the whole EU would go totally Green deal, China doesn't give a fuck, The USA now doesn't give a fuck, 90% of the globe doesn't give a fuck about environmentalism. 

The thing is we will go green anyway. China has no woke shit in it but it still has more electric cars and I predict that they will have more and more renewable energy etc. That without any woke nonsense. Because it makes total sense to do that. Why do people buy Teslas and solar panels for their houses? Mostly because it is cool, cheaper in the long run, cleaner, better...  Jeremy Rifkin predicts we will switch to renewables by the end of the decade.

Edited June 3 by Alexop

[Alexop]

2 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

I think the left will gain in the US after Trump and MAGA. But i hope the real realistic left and not this woke.

Fingers crossed man. I hope Bernie wins, not some woke retard.

[Leo Gura]

There is no distinction between Bernie fans and wokes.

Bernie is a self-decribed socialist. What the fuck are you guys talking about?

Edited June 3 by Leo Gura

[Alexop]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

There is no distinction between Bernie fans and wokes.

Well that is good news. 

[Nivsch]

The Left in its excesses is too judgmental, and this radiates into its own circles and onto those who try to engage with it. Our mind seeks freedom, variety and flexibility more than it wants to fight for certain ideals again and again and these basic psychological needs tend to win in the end.

Edited June 3 by Nivsch

[Basman]

The right tends to be perceived as more actionable whereas the left is perceived as more idealistic and more like a collection of broad moral statements that don't have clear actionable steps. A bunch of "shoulds" essentially.

In my opinion, identity politics has soiled the image of the left as identity politics isn't actual politics with clear steps but a broad debate over norms and definitions. In multi-party systems, the furthest left parties tend to be ungrounded, ineffective, unwilling to cooperate across aisle and are overly concerned with their optics relative to their moral convictions (in my opinion). The US has less opportunity to distinguish between pragmatic economic leftism and far-left ideology because of the two-party system in my opinion. The far-left isn't concerned with political pragmatism and could perhaps be considered as more experimental if given a gracious treatment.

I think economic insecurity is making people lean more conservative as well as people tend to become more conservative during times of hardship at the same time that they are not seeing a strong presence of actionable left-wing calls to action.

[AtmanIsBrahman]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

There is no distinction between Bernie fans and wokes.

Bernie is a self-decribed socialist. What the fuck are you guys talking about?

There is a distinction. While many Bernie fans are woke, he actually appeals to a wider audience, which is why he did so well in 2016 and 2020. Bernie's appeal is to the left, but also to everyday working people who want policies that help them (that is, if they aren't brainwashed into MAGA). It's surprising that you wouldn't realize this with your understanding of politics.

[Joshe]

1 hour ago, AtmanIsBrahman said:

There is a distinction. While many Bernie fans are woke, he actually appeals to a wider audience, which is why he did so well in 2016 and 2020. Bernie's appeal is to the left, but also to everyday working people who want policies that help them (that is, if they aren't brainwashed into MAGA). It's surprising that you wouldn't realize this with your understanding of politics.

He sometimes misses the very obvious. He thought Elon Musk selflessly cared about humanity up until Trump’s election. Lol. 

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, Joshe said:

He thought Elon Musk selflessly cared about humanity

He still does.

That was the point you guys keep missing.

There is more than your way to care about humanity. Lol.

Edited June 4 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, AtmanIsBrahman said:

he actually appeals to a wider audience

Not as wide as leftists imagine.

[Jacob Morres]

12 hours ago, SwiftQuill said:

The job market already lacks meritocracy as is. We don't need to make it even more competitive and unfair.

 

I get you bro fr. Did you see this study?: https://bfi.uchicago.edu/working-paper/systemic-discrimination-among-large-u-s-employers/

"Contact gaps are highly concentrated in particular companies, with firms in the top quintile of racial discrimination responsible for nearly half of lost contacts to Black applicants in the experiment. Controlling false discovery rates to the 5% level, 23 [of the largest 108 companies] individual companies are found to discriminate against Black applicants. Our findings establish that systemic illegal discrimination is concentrated among a select set of large employers, many of which can be identified with high confidence using large scale inference methods." 

 

did you see this shit?? are you ready to fight with me?! 

12 hours ago, SwiftQuill said:

If the system is broken, do something to fix it. Don't make it even more broken and unfair.

are we still on the same page??

no? not anymore??

Edited June 4 by Jacob Morres

[Alexop]

@Leo Gura I don't perceive Bernie as woke. He is better than that.

[Joshe]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

There is more than your way to care about humanity. Lol.

Musk put on a show for years that everything he was doing, he was doing for humanity. At this point, you should be able to call that bs regardless the stories he tells himself. What one is actually driven by and what one claims to be driven by is more often than not, not the same. 

Elon says he has so many children because he’s worried about population collapse. Lol. Elon fucks for humanity bro. Just pure benevolence. 

Edited June 4 by Joshe

[Leo Gura]

46 minutes ago, Joshe said:

Musk put on a show for years that everything he was doing, he was doing for humanity.

You make it sound way too cartoonish.

Musk genuinely cared about advancing mankind via technology. He has done exactly that. Nowhere did he claim that he wouldn't also serve himself in the process.

He is helping mankind but also being a narcissistic man-child as well. No contradiction.

Humans are complex mixtures of benevolence and evil. Just because Musk is delusional about politics doesn't negate his desire to advance mankind.

Edited June 4 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

57 minutes ago, Alexop said:

@Leo Gura I don't perceive Bernie as woke. He is better than that.

That's all a matter how you decide to define woke. If you define woke as all the shitty and cringe parts of the left, that is not a very fair definition.

Lots of people like to define woke as "stuff I dislike".

If I say systemic racism exists, am I woke?

Edited June 4 by Leo Gura

[Alex4]

I've become more left-wing in the past few years. But I believe there are good values on the right that the left should adopt to broaden its voter base.

[Alex4]

14 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

For me the biggest turn-off about the left is the endless whining. Nothing is ever good enough for them. They will whine till they hit the grave. To me this is an improper attitude towards reality.

If you are always whining, maybe the problem is you, not the world.

After years of listening to their whining, I just can't stand it any more.

Damn, I really relate to what you said! I lean more to the left, but I get exhausted arguing with left-wingers. Nothing the right ever does is good enough for them. Even if there's a moderate, morally decent right-wing politician, they treat him the same as an extremist or a MAGA guy. 

I believe most leftists, the only acceptable outcome for a right-winger is for them to become left-wing. They really struggle to compromise or accept that conservatives exist, and always will.

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, Alex4 said:

They really struggle to compromise or accept that conservatives exist, and always will.

That's because they don't understand why conservatives exist or what conservatism is.

They only know strawmans and childish demonizations. They haven't bothered to actually see reality from the conservative perspective. Leftists are paradigm-locked.

[Alexop]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

If I say systemic racism exists, am I woke?

Great point. No, you are not necessarily woke in this case. What I perceive as "woke" is the ideological adoption of Stage Green ideas. If you further insult and shitpost about how many racists we have in society all day, then are you woke. You don't need more than 15 neurons in the head to throw shit, you will need many more to properly adress racism.

This is what these JP/Red Pillers miss, they criticise woke from an Orange perspective, instead of sorting out the good sides of the left. 

[Daniel Balan]

@Leo GuraYou could say that I'm a leftist( I'm not) but I lived all my life among conservatives, and I tell you that conservatives are exactly the strawmaned stereotypes the left makes them to be. I perfectly understand them, all their behavior is with the intent to maximize survival, hoard as many material possessions, money, land and status. For them status within society trumps everything. As long as they are viewed as a upstanding successful Christian, they will kill and dominate whoever stands in their way to attain that status. I have yet to find a single good characteristic about conservatives! Discipline and hard work ain't conservative traits! Those are good survival traits, which plenty of leftists posses too! Other than that, the words that depict conservatives best is endless greed, devil like selfishness, not the slightest fucks given about the environment, animals or minorities or the weak. Smiles in your face but would kill you if they could get away with it if you have different opinions than them.