Leo's take on solipsism is confusing

[patricknotstar]

You have a screen of awareness. Whatever exists within the moment right now within this screen of awareness including sight , sounds, bodily sensations is all that we can know for certain. Everything outside of that is a web of assumptions and concepts. Even the labels we assign to what we see in this screen such as "tv, desk, wife" is arbitrary and relative. 

I totally agree with that despite not being enlightened. Just being a rationalist and based on epistemology 101 this is true. So I am curious how you derive solipsism from this?

Yes you could very well be the only conscious entity in existence, but you also couldn't. You have no way of discerning which is true as you can only verify your own self awareness, through direct experience, not anyone else's. 

Yet Leo claims solipsism is true and I don't see how that can be verified through direct experience and isn't just an assumption. To me it seems like an eternal mystery. 

[Breakingthewall]

17 minutes ago, patricknotstar said:

the moment right now

Only this quote proves the falsehood of solipsism. "Right now" implies before and after. Where are "before" and "after" in infinity? Is infinity a time sequence that never ends? It seems limited in all dimensions except that one, therefore not absolutely infinite.

The absence of limits implies total expansion in all directions, which makes it certain that infinite perspectives are always occurring. The timeline only exists in relation to one of those perspectives; there are infinite lines in infinite directions. Anything else is limited.

[Sugarcoat]

Spirituality in general is confusing. Have you noticed every person that writes has like their own unique interpretation of it? It’s like we all speak our own language. I notice this both here and in spirituality forums on Reddit. I’m okay with not knowing, with being confused though , so it’s not a problem. But damn there’s so many ways to speak of the same concepts, for example the idea of consciousness, let’s not even start with that

[Sugarcoat]

I just think regards to solipsism. 
 

Why the hell would reality limit itself to only one perspective (yours)?

[Davino]

3 hours ago, patricknotstar said:

You have a screen of awareness. Whatever exists within the moment right now within this screen of awareness including sight , sounds, bodily sensations is all that we can know for certain. Everything outside of that is a web of assumptions and concepts. Even the labels we assign to what we see in this screen such as "tv, desk, wife" is arbitrary and relative.

Assumptions, concepts and multiplicity still happen within consciousness, they "exist"

3 hours ago, patricknotstar said:

So I am curious how you derive solipsism from this?

By realizing the One that divides itself into all the multiplicity.

Existence takes the form of this sentence, your present sensations and the 360 experiential field... 

If you look at the different figments, then there are many happening with complex and intelligent interconnections, yet if we look at the metaphysical essence we see it's the One Infinite Reality that fragments itself into all of that. 

3 hours ago, patricknotstar said:

Yes you could very well be the only conscious entity in existence, but you also couldn't. You have no way of discerning which is true as you can only verify your own self awareness, through direct experience, not anyone else's. 

In my experience, I'd say the one consciousness manifests through all beings. Even I could say there's only one Self or I-principle that manifests in each beings. Ramana used to say:

Quote

 

Please find out this:

In planet earth, are there 7 billion individual "I" ?

Or is there only one I happening throughout all beings

 

Sri Anandamayi used to say:

Quote

See from just one seed

A plant grows and becomes a mighty tree

In spring flowers blossom and dozens of seeds fall again to the ground

What is the One seed?

Which divides itself into all that is and is able to fully recreate itself for infinity?

 

 

 

3 hours ago, patricknotstar said:

Yet Leo claims solipsism is true and I don't see how that can be verified through direct experience and isn't just an assumption. To me it seems like an eternal mystery. 

Actually the assumption is non-solipsism, the default present experience is Solipsistic, as you said: "you can only verify your own self awareness, through direct experience, not anyone else's. 

You're locked into The One Absolute Consciousness and our body and other people's body are happening as forms existence takes. So they can have experience yet we all are existing and this existence in wich duality and limitations co-arise is unlimited and Infinite and therefore Solipsistic (the one seed) from which all multiplicty (other trees) are born. This is the present Field of Experience.

Edited May 2 by Davino

[Someone here]

 everyone are convinced they are the nexus of the universe.. then who do you trust? Only your direct experience.  Solipsism smells like truth to me sometimes. And sometimes it smells like bs . I chose to stop inquiring into it completely. Do that and see what happens. 

[meta_male]

@patricknotstar Did you listen to Curt's interview with Leo? Part 1. Somewhere around the 5 hour mark I think he explains it a little different than in his solipsism video.

 

[ExploringReality]

@patricknotstar

First, you are Awareness. But you don't know what awareness is. Have you ever had an experience of anything outside of your awareness? No, based on your own direct experience correct? Direct experience is the highest validation of Truth. What kind of Truth requires one to know oneself? People require the truth to be something new, but it is eternal and ever present. The mind, your mind with all its clever tricks and self-deception will come in here and try to dissect these words and cherry pick words that point to the Self, your Self cuz you are lost and confused, playing the shallows skeptical games. You have simply forgotten who You Are, Lost in your own dream that you are somehow apart from. Being self-realized is not some goal that you achieve or something new that you experience, it's realizing what you always been and always will be. There is nothing outside of your consciousness, but you don't know what Consciousness is.

[LastThursday]

5 hours ago, patricknotstar said:

You have a screen of awareness. Whatever exists within the moment right now within this screen of awareness including sight , sounds, bodily sensations is all that we can know for certain. Everything outside of that is a web of assumptions and concepts. Even the labels we assign to what we see in this screen such as "tv, desk, wife" is arbitrary and relative. 

Yes! 

One of those concepts is "the self" that is experiencing all that stuff. No self, no solipsism. If the self is a construct then so is solipsism. 

The other problem with solipsism is that reality isn't countable. Awareness (aka reality) is like water, there isn't one water, two waters etc, there is just water. From that point of view solipsism doesn't make sense either.

To say "my experience is the only one", then there has to be an absolute self, and the potentiality for multiple experiences happening simultaneously - of which yours is the only one currently active.

Solipsism is then tripping up in the semantics of language, not an actuality.

Edited May 2 by LastThursday

[Hojo]

You cant ever know when someone comes into your field its automatically part of the experience that you are having. So if someone came into your field with their own conciousness that would automatically become your conciousness. If others existed outside the second they became of aware of thats your conciousness you are using to become aware of them and cant know if its you doing it or you cant know they are doing it.

He could def be wrong there are others who say its not solipsism. There are basically two paths you can take its all me and its solipsism or I dont exist and surrender my life to everyone else.

When it becomes solipsism you see that the room you are is the only room you have ever been in and any other experience you have ever had is made up from the room you are in. Like starting a story from its conclusion and remembering your life vividly from a single room.

Edited May 2 by Hojo

[Salvijus]

6 hours ago, patricknotstar said:

To me it seems like an eternal mystery.

It's not an eternal mystery. You can recognize that everything in existence is made out of conciousness and contains certain degree of sentience. That alone debunks solipsisms. Because consciousness recognizes conciousness you can easily know the degree of conciousnesses in any other life form. 

Ggwp. 

Edited May 2 by Salvijus

[Nemra]

I know the following: I will never be conscious of an experience that is not my experience. If I become aware of a new experience, it becomes mine.

Literally, nothing exists outside my experience, as I am not conscious of any other experience apart from mine right now, which is not to imply that my experience is not changing.

Edited May 2 by Nemra

[Breakingthewall]

23 minutes ago, Nemra said:

I know the following: I will never be conscious of an experience that is not my experience. If I become aware of a new experience, it becomes mine. And literally, nothing exists outside my experience, as I'm not conscious of any other experience apart from mine right now, which is not to imply that my experience isn't changing.

This is the logic of solipsism, which confuses the absolute with the relative, needs a step back. The absolute is not experience; it is the matter of experience, its source. Experience is always relative because it requires perception, and for perception to exist, movement and change are necessary. In the absence of change, perception disappears.

The absolute is where change occurs; it is the source of change, the total potential, but it is not change itself. Change is a manifestation of its unlimited essence. Therefore, you will never leave experience because you are the experience. But ultimately, experience is an emergence from infinity. Therefore, it requires another experience to exist: infinite intertwined experiences reflecting each other in perfect synchrony. Otherwise, perception would be impossible.

Edited May 2 by Breakingthewall

[Nemra]

@Breakingthewall, do you experience another experience that you aren't conscious of?

Of course not. Because if you did, you would be conscious of it.

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, Nemra said:

@Breakingthewall, do you experience another experience that you aren't conscious of?

Of course not. Because if you did, you would be conscious of it.

Do you think that in eternity there have been different experiences than yours now? not human experiences, totally different . If you answer yes, where are they now, if you are not experiencing them right now? Are in the past? Then reality is a timeline? 

[Nemra]

16 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Do you think that in eternity there have been different experiences than yours now? not human experiences, totally different . If you answer yes, where are they now, if you are not experiencing them right now? Are in the past? Then reality is a timeline? 

There is only the experience that I am conscious of right now. I'm not conscious of any other experience at this moment.

E.g., if I go home from the office, I will have the experience of my home and not the office. However, it does not mean that I did not have the experience of the office. If I go back to office, I will experience the office again.

Edited May 2 by Nemra

[Hojo]

@Nemra Where is going back

[Breakingthewall]

18 minutes ago, Nemra said:

There is only the experience that I am conscious of right now. I'm not conscious of any other experience at this moment.

E.g., if I go home from the office, I will have the experience of my home and not the office. However, it does not mean that I did not have the experience of the office. If I go back to office, I will experience the office again.

Without something exterior to your field of perception perception is impossible. You are perceiving a phone now, then how this phone appears, who created it? You? Then make it levitate with your will. You can't control what appears, then it's external to you. You could answer like Leo in the solipsism video: you as god created it but you hidden this fact to have an experience. Then this fact is outside of the experience, then something is outside, then infinite things are outside 

[Yimpa]

13 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

You are perceiving a phone now, then how this phone appears, who created it? You?

Chocolate Bar Phone

 

15 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

**Knock, knock**

Who's there?

You.
You who?       

 

You: 

[Nemra]

17 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Without something exterior to your field of perception perception is impossible.

There is no exterior, as in you are not conscious of that exterior experience now.

You could say that the exterior is a memory of an interior that you experienced. However, the exterior becomes interior when you experience it, which was the thing that your memory pointed to.

17 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

You are perceiving a phone now, then how this phone appears, who created it? You? Then make it levitate with your will.

There is more stuff than I could think of that I am not in control of in my experience.

Also, why would I be able to levitate my phone?

Edited May 2 by Nemra