Back to square one

[Someone here]

Why do Christians ride on the back of a man they have no proof of ever living and a man who has never done anything for them? if I ask a Christian what has Jesus ever done for you? They would say he died on the cross for our sins except we have no proof of that 😂. All Christians simply believe hearsay as a way to comfort themselves. That's the only way I can think of it. It's children play as osho have said . Sorry if this is saddening for Christians but truth be told .

[TheAlchemist]

16 hours ago, Flowerfaeiry said:

Quote from her Facebook: “I could never deny the growth I experienced in 12 years going so deep with the plants. But after so many years and still having so many questions and feeling unsatisfied with the loop I found myself in I knew what I was experiencing wasn’t truth. The gifts and blessings God has for us through his son Jesus is unlike anything I have ever known”

 

Sheesh! 

This is a perfect illustration of how the same underlying structural driver can lead someone to be both a new age shaman healer and a fundamentalist Christian.

For example here is one underlying, usually unquestioned driver:

I should be guaranteed permanent satisfaction, I should be secure, I should have a place, fulfillment and a sense of belonging. Being insecure, lacking, questioning, alienated and uprooted is categorically bad and should be avoided. 

No matter how many gallons of ayahuasca someone drinks, an underlying driver and fantasy such as this may never be uncovered. It requires a different approach and mode to uncover.

Even spirituality generally is very accommodating to many fantasies about eternal fulfillment, happiness and belonging. An even when these drivers and fantasies are uncovered they continue to drive behavior, so it could be a massive task to uproot something like that without significant internal turmoil.

 

Edited January 11 by TheAlchemist

[UnbornTao]

Christ Sutras by Bart Marshall.

Recommended read.

[Carl-Richard]

6 hours ago, Salvijus said:

In the end Langan is wet for Jesus.

What points did you take issue with in that video? The things he said about Jesus are the kinds of things I remember hearing even Sam Harris say. That out of many existing religious figures, Jesus is an exceptional moral exemplar.

Edited January 11 by Carl-Richard

[Salvijus]

2 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

What points did you take issue with in that video? The things he said about Jesus are the kinds of things I remember hearing even Sam Harris say. That out of many existing religious figures, Jesus is an exceptional moral exemplar. 

It's not about what he says precisely but about the wetness of his underwear when he speaks about Jesus. It's clearly written on his face that he's a christian. 

Edited January 11 by Salvijus

[Thought Art]

13 hours ago, Flowerfaeiry said:

Because if I don’t I’ll go to hell. Hypothetically. If you get what I mean.

When did this belief get adopted into Christianity?

[gettoefl]

15 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Wtf does that mean exactly? What does Jesus saving us look like? What does believing in that look like?

Save from death. Almost everyone thinks they're going to die until they encounter a Jesus. No Jesus ever dies! I prove Jesus didn't die by proving that Jesus lives inside me. This means Jesus helps me and saves me. Body will crumble and decay but the Jesus reality will endure. There may be another way but this one is fire. I do not fear death. I cannot die. I am not a body. And I have experienced this for myself. Seeing isn't believing. Believing is seeing. Jesus lived it then asked me to give it a try based on belief. I did and here I am. I am that I am. I am not what you think I am. I am pure observing awareness of being. You are too. Jesus is helpful for getting saved from the seemingly never-ending cycle of death and life. This place is nothing more than a seemingly hard to escape fantasy. Everyone is proud and stubborn. I ain't following no Jesus. I am way too smart. Besides I'm not ready for heaven; I've got way too much living and loving to do first. Hit me up in the next lifetime. After all I am practically living as a god down here as it is; everyone loves me, I make boatloads of cash and boy you should see me dance.

Edited January 11 by gettoefl

[zurew]

16 hours ago, Flowerfaeiry said:

Because if I don’t I’ll go to hell.

That doesn't necessarily follow, even if chrisitianity is true.

For example, you can be a universalist , where they believe everyone will eventually go to heaven no matter what.

But, regardless - going to hell or having a negative afterlife can all be true or false regardless of your beliefs about christianity.

 

There is also a weird possibility that if you believe in Jesus, then for some reason you will go to hell.  There is also a possibility that whatever happens to you in the afterlife is 100% outside of your control and isn't dependent on any of your beliefs or actions. There is also a possibility, that there is no afterlife at all.

I would stop worrying about adopting beliefs about the afterlife and would focus on doing my best with what I have in this current life. Maybe some of my thoughts, actions and beliefs will have horrible and terrifying consequences, but so be it, it is what it is, I will do my best with what I have. 

11 hours ago, Someone here said:

Why do Christians ride on the back of a man they have no proof of ever living and a man who has never done anything for them? if I ask a Christian what has Jesus ever done for you? They would say he died on the cross for our sins except we have no proof of that 😂. All Christians simply believe hearsay as a way to comfort themselves. That's the only way I can think of it. It's children play as osho have said . Sorry if this is saddening for Christians but truth be told .

I would dial down the smugness a bit. 

When it comes to claims about history , if you are not a scholar or historian , chances are you have 0 response to what christian scholars offer. You probably also don't have any well-thought out concept of what kind of evidence should be considered good quality or good enough quality, when it comes to historical events or figures.

Osho would have been intellectually dumpstered by any serious christian philosopher.

You are lucky there is no Christian scholar or debate bro here.

Edited January 11 by zurew

[Someone here]

@zurew well first of all i was being cute to help her loosen a bit this fear of hell if she doesn't follow Jesus .

secondly ..my spiritual work has revealed to me that the entire history is a fabrication.  If you are not yet aware that the past is something you're imagining then what are you doing here ?

From the absolute perspective..Jesus never even existed . And I mean this in the most literal sense possible . You're imagining Jesus.

Religion is based primarily and mainly upon fear.

It is partly the terror of the unknown and partly..(as I have said)the wish to feel that you have a kind of elder brother who will stand by you in all your troubles and disputes.

Fear is the basis of the whole thing.. fear of the mysterious.. fear of defeat..fear of death. And in her case fear of hell .

[zurew]

12 minutes ago, Someone here said:

secondly ..my spiritual work has revealed to me that the entire history is a fabrication.  If you are not yet aware that the past is something you're imagining then what are you doing here ?

This below doesnt sound like a dude, who thinks that history is a fabrication. Why bother asking for evidence for a fabrication?

Quote

Why do Christians ride on the back of a man they have no proof of ever living and a man who has never done anything for them? if I ask a Christian what has Jesus ever done for you? They would say he died on the cross for our sins except we have no proof of that

 

22 minutes ago, Someone here said:

secondly ..my spiritual work has revealed to me that the entire history is a fabrication.  If you are not yet aware that the past is something you're imagining then what are you doing here ?

Did this: ".my spiritual work has revealed to me that the entire history is a fabrication" happen in the past? If so, then it sounds like that you are believing in some sort of a fabrication my dude.

[Someone here]

@zurew OK fuck it ..lets suppose this masochist Jesus really existed in some dimension of time called the past or history..(just the regular set of assumptions of the naive realist materialist paradigm)...still ...there is zero rational reason to take him or whatever he is saying seriously.  You sound like you know your shit right?  Intelligent and left brained ..have you heard of evolution?  Then you go to the freaking bible and you encounter bullshit in the very first chapter about Adam and Eve which is a Jewish mythology. So the whole backbone of Christanity which is the story of the sin of Adam (which then demands there must be crucifixion and Jesus dying for our sins) is based on  a myth .  Do I really need to say this ? There's your relative perspective. I just prove to you that Christianity is bullshit from the relative perspective as well. 

[Oppositionless]

There's something valuable in worship. Even in a nondual framework. You can have nondual worship when you recognize that you're not fully conscious of yourself. 
 

On Easter I went to church and it was a profoundly healing experience. I wish I could have resonated with the doctrine, because the content was good. Maybe I'll start something to fill that gap.

[zurew]

3 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Then you go to the freaking bible and you encounter bullshit in the very first chapter about Adam and Eve which is a Jewish mythology. So the whole backbone of Christanity which is the story of the sin of Adam (which then demands there must be crucifixion and Jesus dying for our sins) is based on  a myth .  Do I really need to say this ? There's your relative perspective. I just prove to you that Christianity is bullshit from the relative perspective as well. 

I won't derail this thread, nor I want to argue in favour of Christianity but whatever you are doing there is a very poor attempt at arguing against it. 

Its unclear why you think that it is necessary for the Adam and Eve story to be literally true in order for Christianity to be true. But regardless, a Christian can just take a non-literalist view and the problem you are talking about is immediately solved, without any need to abandon Christianity.

There being myths in the Bible doesn't mean there aren't historical facts in the Bible. But even if there wouldn't be any historical fact in it, from that wouldn't necessarily follow that Christianity is false.

You can respond to this, I won't respond so that I won't derail this thread further.

[Carl-Richard]

9 hours ago, Salvijus said:

It's not about what he says precisely but about the wetness of his underwear when he speaks about Jesus.

You would have to explain what that means. 

 

9 hours ago, Salvijus said:

It's clearly written on his face that he's a christian. 

What do you mean by him being a Christian? What kind of Christian is he?

Edited January 11 by Carl-Richard

[Jowblob]

Christianity has a lot of quotes in it that are definitally truth, the quotes that are written there are well understood from higher consciousness.

But you shouldn't hang on to it as it will be a trap, specially because most people that are trapped in there live in fear consciousness.

Christianity/Bible is just a symbol for many things, so take it as that.

 

Also a big reminder, is that anything your mind clings to will use it for or against you in higher consciousness so just be aware/witnesser of that and then let it go. It doesn't matter... Everything is imagination.

[Flowerfaeiry]

18 hours ago, TheAlchemist said:

This is a perfect illustration of how the same underlying structural driver can lead someone to be both a new age shaman healer and a fundamentalist Christian.

For example here is one underlying, usually unquestioned driver:

I should be guaranteed permanent satisfaction, I should be secure, I should have a place, fulfillment and a sense of belonging. Being insecure, lacking, questioning, alienated and uprooted is categorically bad and should be avoided. 

No matter how many gallons of ayahuasca someone drinks, an underlying driver and fantasy such as this may never be uncovered. It requires a different approach and mode to uncover.

Even spirituality generally is very accommodating to many fantasies about eternal fulfillment, happiness and belonging. An even when these drivers and fantasies are uncovered they continue to drive behavior, so it could be a massive task to uproot something like that without significant internal turmoil.

 

This is very interesting. 

[Flowerfaeiry]

On 1/10/2025 at 6:05 PM, Sugarcoat said:

I’m not sure I get what you mean. Are you genuinely afraid you’ll go to hell if you don’t believe firmly in Jesus ?

I ultimately just want to do the right thing. Yes there is a little fear in me that I will spend eternity in a fiery hell if I don’t accept Jesus. AND there is the side of me that is afraid I’ll be living in a type of “hell” here on earth if I don’t believe in Jesus. 

[aurum]

Having been raised Christian, I want to add my perspective that Christianity is a fantasy.

I couldn't handle the cognitive dissonance of knowing that. You will undoubtedly handicap your spiritual growth and understanding of reality if you seriously become a Christian and actually believe what they teach you.

That said, you may find some practical benefits to joining the club. That is why most people do it. But I would also strongly encourage you to consider the downsides.

[Salvijus]

3 hours ago, Flowerfaeiry said:

I ultimately just want to do the right thing. Yes there is a little fear in me that I will spend eternity in a fiery hell if I don’t accept Jesus. AND there is the side of me that is afraid I’ll be living in a type of “hell” here on earth if I don’t believe in Jesus. 

Just reframe it like this:

"Unless you put your whole faith in love and truth, your life will be miserable. And where there's love, there He stands with you" 

Edited January 12 by Salvijus

[Salvijus]

14 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

You would have to explain what that means. 

It means he has devotion and reverence in his heart for Jesus. 

Quote

What do you mean by him being a Christian? What kind of Christian is he?

The angels of christ lineage are surrounding him. Perhaps he himself is not aware of it but the spirit of Christ has been watching over him and using him to be in service of yeshua's vision. He's not doing this work by accident. The grip and grace of yeshua is hovering strongly over him. That same spirit hovers over many people, even those who consider themselves atheists are often just unconscious christians lol. Makes me laugh every time. There are rivers like spokes from the hub of one wheel that extend to the wheel of samsara and bring people back to God. These spokes you can call different lineages. And we all belong to one or to the other. A spiritual family(religion) is not something you believe or disbelieve in. It's something that flows in your blood. 

In anticipation of your next response, If you ask me how I know all this, let's just say it's my direct experience. You may say, that's not an objective evidence that he's a christian and I will say it is objective, it's just not physical and requires a different kind of senses to perceive it. It's like a blind person asking to give an objective evidence that the weather is cloudy, but you need to have eyes to perceive this evidence. However there are other signs by which you can recognize that the weather is cloudy. Similary there are certain signs that show Langan's a christian. Just look at his audience, look at the comment section, it's all "praise Jesus" like. People are having their faith restored listening to him. The only reason Michael Knowles invited him on his podcast is because he's a christian. He doesn't invite any other types of guests. And so on. Signs like these are your clues. Otherwise it's just plain obvious if you ask me. 

Edited January 12 by Salvijus