Leo's Blog Discussion Mega-Thread

[Mondsee]

@Leo Gura best to stop making a fool out of yourself while you’re chair-dependent.

Recognizing what your entry level is, and doing whatever works at that point is very valid for a start, but If you’re serious about going deeper in the yoga path, my sincere advice to you would be to make a progressive effort to improve your physical condition, such that you may one day know the privilege of sitting on the ground in bliss for hours on end, without your back / knees pulling you out of it. Godspeed!

Edited 9 hours ago by Mondsee

[bazera]

@Mondsee

https://www.youtube.com/@KriyaYogaOnline

Do you know this guy? He has like 25+ years of Kriya Yoga experience, and I remember in one video (can't find it now) he mentions that he practices just sitting on his chair because it's more comfortable (as I remember him saying). I'll try to find the exact video.

So what's the problem with that?

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, bazera said:

So what's the problem with that?

The problem is it don't conform.

Gotta conform.

Gotta wipe ass with hand the traditional way or no enlightenment for you.

Edited 9 hours ago by Leo Gura

[Natasha Tori Maru]

9 minutes ago, Mondsee said:

@Leo Gura best to stop making a fool out of yourself while you’re chair-dependent.

Christ almighty, makes it sound like a geriatric with a walker 💀

[Mondsee]

@bazera I’m not demonizing chairs. They’re surely better than nothing for those with any physical impediments that make sitting crosslegged hard. Yoga doesn’t discriminate and offers modifications to meet anyone at their current level. But in my own experience, I’ve come to experience that the “full poses” are the way they are for a good reason. And no, the reason is definitely NOT that “that’s how we’ve always done it”, though it may seem so for those with little experience. Remember that more often than not, correlation doesn’t mean causation.

[Ajay0]

 

Most yoga asanas were developed watching animals and birds relax themselves.

You can clearly see a dog performing yoga after getting up from a nap and stretching its legs.

Also sitting in an asana is also stated by yogis to stabilize the mind quickly and thereby bring clarity of mind faster.

I had created a thread in this regard as well here.

I personally use chairs myself, but after realizing the effect of yogic asanas in clearing up the mind swiftly through my own experiences, I now mostly sit in padmasana as much as possible, and have bought mats for the same. 

There were times when I was in a brooding binge, thinking incessantly over unnecessary stuff.  When I sat down in padamasana or lotus position, I found that the thoughts and emotions, often of a negative character, slowed down tangibly. 

So I would say that being in a meditation posture is a kind of meditation in itself. 

I also know of Japanese managers who have a room for themselves to sit in cross-legged position, perhaps to ensure better mental clarity and clear thinking.

Considering the lack of mental clarity as well as large-scale emotivity and reactivity these days , I would say that sitting in a cross-legged or lotus position or padmasana is an excellent tool in  one's mental hygiene tool kit with zero expense.

I would exhort people here to practice siting in lotus position if they are disturbed or agitated and see if they calm down faster.  If they do, they can obviously use it . If not, they can forget it.

Edited 8 hours ago by Ajay0

[Mondsee]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

If a chair works, then cross-legged is unnecessary.

@Natasha Tori Maru it may sound dramatic, but it’s the reality, it’s just that in the West we have normalized disability in many ways. We unfortunately have the logic completely backwards: if sitting on the ground works (cross-legged, squatting, or however you prefer), then chair is unnecessary, not the other way around.

Chairs were originally invented as an item to signal status and authority, and then we got dependent on them. The irony is that despite their normalization, in a way they continue to serve their original purpose, with us interpreting the lack of chairs as poverty.

Thinking about it, chairs are a better example for conformity than sitting crosslegged 😄

Edited 8 hours ago by Mondsee

[integral]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Are you fo real?

Petroleum derived foam from china offgases forever, it's super toxic.

Edited 8 hours ago by integral

[SimpleGuy]

@Leo Gura and guys, I`ve recently bought this chair for meditation. Is it good for posture and all that stuff?

[Mondsee]

@SimpleGuy Anything that works for you at your current level and helps you keep a consistent practice is good, but if you’re serious about following the yogic path, I wouldn’t give up on trying to eventually reach the “full” asanas.

I know those stools from Christian spiritual approaches that spend long time in prayer/singing meditation. Works well for that, but I still prefer sitting with my butt on the ground.

Edited 7 hours ago by Mondsee

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@Mondsee I do not doubt it - the phrasing made me laugh, though 🤪

[Basman]

Sitting cross-legged for long periods of time just cuts off circulation it makes your back slouch. Sitting cross-legged in meditation and yoga is just tradition based on a time when sitting cross-legged was the norm. Average people couldn't afford chairs in ancient India or whatever.

In my experience, the most important factor is being alert and if you slouch too much or are too comfortable you tend to fall asleep. I think the best position is a squat pose while sitting on a low to the ground cushion or stool, such that you get that three points of contact with the ground while maintaining alertness as your not afforded to fall asleep. 

[r0ckyreed]

Chakras and full lotus is BS. You don’t even need to sit to meditate. You don’t need a fancy chair nor an ass mat. Y’all are getting lost in the Maya. Meditation is a lifestyle not just one act. The only meditation you need is reflecting on one question: “How conscious am I of Truth right now?” Thats it. Anything else is a distraction. Counting your breaths, counting your beads, mandalas, chakras, pranayama, supreme fire, Wim Hof, etc. is just mindless conformity until you recognize it as Truth. Nothing will get you closer to Truth than directly meditating on Truth. Don’t meditate on the breath. Meditate on Truth. Just be honest with yourself, any other “meditation” is taking your eye off of Truth. Contemplate Truth and rest in Truth. That’s it. 

[Mondsee]

19 minutes ago, Basman said:

Sitting cross-legged for long periods of time just cuts off circulation it makes your back slouch.

True for anyone who hasn't yet mastered siddhasana.

19 minutes ago, Basman said:

Sitting cross-legged in meditation and yoga is just tradition based on a time when sitting cross-legged was the norm.

Again: correlation ≠ causation

19 minutes ago, Basman said:

Average people couldn't afford chairs in ancient India or whatever.

😂 why the hell would you get yourself a chair if you don't need one? I can afford myself a walker too, but I can walk without one!!

Related to this, and admittedly maybe part of the reason why I'm even bothering to respond to this topic, this is a true story: when I moved out to live on my own as a student, I was living on a modest budget, but could've for sure afforded some chairs, and yet, I decided I didn't need any. The student dorms came with a small desk and one chair, but that was it. I bought myself a low table, where I would eat, and didn't invest any money or effort to get a dining table or chairs. Having friends visiting and finding it outrageous or straight out impossible to sit on the ground to eat showed me the how chair-dependent the Western society has become.

19 minutes ago, Basman said:

In my experience, the most important factor is being alert and if you slouch too much or are too comfortable you tend to fall asleep. I think the best position is a squat pose while sitting on a low to the ground cushion or stool, such that you get that three points of contact with the ground while maintaining alertness as your not afforded to fall asleep. 

Do what works best for you, just know that the main reason for a crosslegged position is not only looking like a yogi, or avoiding the chance of falling asleep, but this is something only you can prove to yourself over time through consistent practice. Yes, a guru may tell you to do it like that without offering more explanations at first, which is precisely what can be misinterpreted as conformity, but when you start becoming more clearly aware of the energy flow in your body, you wouldn't trade crosslegged sitting for any alternative or modification around.

Edited 6 hours ago by Mondsee

[Basman]

3 minutes ago, Mondsee said:

Do what works best for you, just know that the main reason for a crosslegged position is not only looking like a yogi, or avoiding the chance of falling asleep, but this is something only you can prove to yourself over time through consistent practice. Yes, a guru may tell you to do it like that without offering more explanations at first, which is precisely what can be misinterpreted as conformity, but when you start becoming more clearly aware of the energy flow in your body, you wouldn't trade crosslegged sitting for any alternative or modification around.

There's nothing magical about sitting cross-legged.

Enjoy your tradition.

[koops]

Sitting cross-legged/lots is bad for your knees?

Yes, if you have bad hip mobility, tight psoas and shortened adductors (which is the case for 90% of westerners, specially males)

So you can use a chair.  Or train hip mobility.

Also, if you do meditation on the ground, use a thick zafu, so your hips are higher and you have more space for hip rotation. 
You wont damage your knees this ways.
 

This video explains it perfectly:

 

 

[r0ckyreed]

Death and Truth are identical. When you kill every belief, burn away all tradition, all your attachments, what are you left with? Truth!! Truth is the only thing that survives Death. Buddhism and chakras can’t be Truth because there was a time when they didn’t exist. There was a reality without Buddhism, without meditation. These are all human endeavors. No model of reality is Truth. Burn it all down. Let it die and look at what remains. Any belief you cling to is delusion. If you aren’t willing to let it go, then it is not Truth you hold but Maya.

Edited 6 hours ago by r0ckyreed

[Rigel]

Chair sitting is ass. The floor is better.

[Mondsee]

@Basman "And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music"

(-Nietzsche, I think)

@koops Good stuff.

For anyone trying: do the butterfly exercise for a few minutes EVERY SINGLE DAY with the actual intention to improve a little and get a bit further every time. It will get you there.

General fitness and flexibility are assumed, stick to modifications if you're dealing with injuries, or feel like you're hurting yourself.

Edited 5 hours ago by Mondsee

[Rigel]

The only reason it hurts when cross legged is that you never do it. People even loose basic functions like squatting by not doing them. From thousands of hours doing chair & floor, there’s 0% chance I go back to chair.

Leo is not a model of physical coherence and he is wrong about this one. Chairs make your hips weaker & when you get weak enough you think it’s the only option.

Chairs is conformist non sense. Not the other way around. Meditating on it doesn’t make it original lol.

Low stool where you can assume a kinda of squat but seated is also leagues above chairs.

 

Edited 5 hours ago by Rigel