Leo's Blog Discussion Mega-Thread

[Davino]

Quote

It’s not merely that we lack the tools to explain the Big Bang, it’s that in principle science can never explain anything in total, no matter how long it works or how good its tools.

Therefore, scientific method cannot be used to grasp totality. This is no trivial coincidence. It is a technical requirement of scientific method that it offload explanatory power onto other unknown parts. 

This is absolutely brilliant. This statement right here logically debunks the myth that science "eventually" will solve everything. This is outstanding epistemological and philosophical science work. It's a pity this will not hit the public at large. I feel like it should be published in a scientific magazine, it sounds ridiculous but this is the real conversation scientist should be having if they really cared about truth and science.

Hats off to you Leo. Exquisite read.

[Leo Gura]

26 minutes ago, Davino said:

This is absolutely brilliant. This statement right here logically debunks the myth that science "eventually" will solve everything. This is outstanding epistemological and philosophical science work. It's a pity this will not hit the public at large. I feel like it should be published in a scientific magazine, it sounds ridiculous but this is the real conversation scientist should be having if they really cared about truth and science.

Hats off to you Leo. Exquisite read.

Glad you like it

I got hundreds of pages of this shit.

Edited June 10 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

7 hours ago, Anton Rogachevski said:

Leo, if all scientists became philosophers or mystics who would build your pc and smartphone? Who would solve global warming?

Luckily no one listens to me, so we're safe

[r0ckyreed]

@Leo Gura I am trying to follow your helicopter analogy. I was agreeing and resonating with it until you said that the helicopter is analogous to thinking and when you said that meditation is more fundamental to it. This makes sense, but thinking or shall I say questioning is essential for understanding reality. Without questioning, there is no curiosity and no awakening. In a way, I see questioning as the only rocket essential for awakening.
 

You can meditate and do psychedelics, but if you have no desire to understand reality (ex: questioning/contemplation), then you will never reach the moon. The rocket was built out of contemplation/thinking/questioning, not out of sitting still and counting your breaths. The issue is science thinks too limited because that’s what science is. 

In a way, you contradict yourself because your entire post was you using a helicopter to explain the limits of helicopters. You were using thinking to explain the limits of thinking. But it’s even more nuanced than that because you value the deepest understanding possible, which cannot negate the importance of high quality thinking. There is no totality of understanding if you don’t have high quality thinking down.

What am I missing?

Edited June 10 by r0ckyreed

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

@Leo Gura I am trying to follow your helicopter analogy. I was agreeing and resonating with it until you said that the helicopter is analogous to thinking and when you said that meditation is more fundamental to it. This makes sense, but thinking or shall I say questioning is essential for understanding reality. Without questioning, there is no curiosity and no awakening. In a way, I see questioning as the only rocket essential for awakening

Thinking is still important. It just won't get you to the final levels of God.

It's more like this:

You use a helicopter to fly as high up as it will go. Then, you launch your rocket from the helicopter.

Quote

You can meditate and do psychedelics, but if you have no desire to understand reality (ex: questioning/contemplation), then you will never reach the moon. The rocket was built out of contemplation/thinking/questioning, not out of sitting still and counting your breaths.

Yes. That's all true. This doesn't contradict my analogy.

Helicopter is still a powerful and necessary tool.

Most terrestrial work is better done with helicopter than rocket.

Quote

In a way, you contradict yourself because your entire post was you using a helicopter to explain the limits of helicopters. You were using thinking to explain the limits of thinking. But it’s even more nuanced than that because you value the deepest understanding possible, which cannot negate the importance of high quality thinking. There is no totality of understanding if you don’t have high quality thinking down.

Yes, correct.

I am obviously not against thinking. Nor am I against doing science.

Helicopters are good. Just know their limits and don't crash into a mountaintop.

Edited June 10 by Leo Gura

[Nemra]

19 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I got hundreds of pages of this shit.

Post a long one.

Maybe create a whole new page for written stuff. You can then write as long as you want.

I'm enjoying reading your stuff. I want longer. Like pages long without interruptions. 😁

Edited June 10 by Nemra

[r0ckyreed]

@Leo Gura Okay. I think I’m starting to understand. My issue is that if meditation is really more fundamental than contemplation, then why are there hardly any God-Realized mediating monks? Why are people like Martin Ball not God-Realized after taking so much 5-me0? Maybe because they didn’t contemplate, question, and deconstruct self-deception enough?

it just seems like that there’s more to the rocket than just meditation, psychedelics or a mystical experience. Because those methods can also lead you to the wrong planet.

Edited June 10 by r0ckyreed

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

Because those methods can also lead you to the wrong planet.

It's the right planet, but after you walk on the moon you still have to return to Earth and get around using your car, so knowing how to drive well is still an important skill to master.

Meditators can be like rocketeers who never learned how to drive. But you can't live on the moon forever. You still gotta survive Earth.

Look, these analogies are not perfect. You're expecting too much perfection here.

Edited June 10 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

14 minutes ago, Nemra said:

Post a long one.

Maybe create a whole new page for written stuff. You can then write as long as you want.

I'm enjoying reading your stuff. I want longer. Like pages long without interruptions. 😁

I am saving that for the book.

I have already shared too much. These are all topics from my book.

Edited June 10 by Leo Gura

[r0ckyreed]

23 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's the right planet, but after you walk on the moon you still have to return to Earth and get around using your car, so knowing how to drive well is still an important skill to master.

Meditators can be like rocketeers who never learned how to drive. But you can't live on the moon forever. You still gotta survive Earth.

Look, these analogies are not perfect. You're expecting too much perfection here.

Thanks. I’m just trying to make sure how I can meditation properly so that it won’t be a waste of time. Not sure how counting my breaths or chanting a mantra will lead me to the moon. I can see how meditation can make me more grounded, but I don’t see how I can get to the moon via meditation alone. Furthest I’ve gotten to the moon was via psilocybin and contemplation. Trying to see what I can do other than contemplation while I wait to get psychedelics again.

Edited June 10 by r0ckyreed

[Nemra]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I am saving that for the book.

I have already shared too much. These are all topics from my book.

I remember you saying that you have shared 1% of your stuff, but okay—I still enjoy it.

By showing how science works, I think you were demonstrating how relativity functions, where each thing is defined by the other without addressing what is actually being pointed to.

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

but I don’t see how I can get to the moon via meditation alone.

As I have said many times, for meditation to be effective for God-Realization requires doing hardcore week-long non-stop retreats.

If you did that, you would understand how meditation is more powerful than a helicopter.

1 hour of meditation is like pissing into the ocean and expecting it to turn yellow.

Edited June 10 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

Anyone watched The Surfer? Curious on folks' opinions.

[r0ckyreed]

27 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

As I have said many times, for meditation to be effective for God-Realization requires doing hardcore week-long non-stop retreats.

If you did that, you would understand how meditation is more powerful than a helicopter.

1 hour of meditation is like pissing into the ocean and expecting it to turn yellow.

Thanks. Any retreats you recommend? Never actually done a formal retreat. Are they even worth it compared to a retreat at my home?

I was thinking of just doing a weekend dark room retreat in my home where I just lock myself in my dark closet and just sit. The most I’ve ever meditated was 5 hours.

I plan on watching the surfer this weekend.

Edited June 11 by r0ckyreed

[integral]

51 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Anyone watched The Surfer? Curious on folks' opinions.

YES, basically when psychedelics gaslights you. and I love the CAGE.

How did you interpret it?

Edited June 11 by integral

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, integral said:

How did you interpret it?

It's an interesting commentary on toxic masculinity but also the need for toughening up soft men.

Edited June 11 by Leo Gura

[Deziree]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

It's an interesting commentary on toxuc masculinity but also the value in toughening up a soft man.

Toxic masculinity needs to be discussed in greater depth. Too. 

[Anton Rogachevski]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Luckily no one listens to me, so we're safe

I don't think that you take it seriously enough that a lot of people do follow you and take it very seriously, just look at this forum how much your message of "just take 5meo and you will know truth" is repeated. Are you sure your aren't leading them astray?

[Leo Gura]

14 minutes ago, Anton Rogachevski said:

I don't think that you take it seriously enough that a lot of people do follow you and take it very seriously, just look at this forum how much your message of "just take 5meo and you will know truth" is repeated. Are you sure your aren't leading them astray?

Your hypothesis that Infinity is an illusion is false.

Wise men have proclaimed the existence of Infinity for 5,000 years. Nothing particularly new here. I just make it easy to understand.

Edited June 11 by Leo Gura

[samijiben]

@Anton Rogachevski if Leo was more mainstream, it would not change a thing. 

It does not matter if you can get this to more people. If you can even manage to get them to sit through an episode to its end & fathom what was being pointed to.............

This work is deeply personal. Most will unfortunately never come across Leo's work. But I am contending that it must be that way. If the Mainstream got hold of "this," it would be corrupt.