Leo Gura

Leo's Blog Discussion Mega-Thread

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31 minutes ago, aurum said:

You can integrate MBTI into your worldview if you'd like.

I try not to reject any perspective. I focus on seeing limitations.

Fair enough. For me, it's about about recognizing where it offers clarity. Like any lens, it has its blind spots. I like SD for the collective and Jung's functions for the individual. 

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21 minutes ago, Nemra said:

Pressure to act against your inner values - Who doesn't

Not everyone experiences a violation of those values as a personal crisis - Fi-doms do.

INFP's are almost always indecisive because they makes decisions based on internal values, which can be slow, private, and nonlinear. They feel into it, they think into it, they intuit into it, and they wait to see how it all "feels". They often need time to feel out what’s right for them, which can look like hesitation or ambivalence. This is like one of their core traits, so if that's not you, you probably aren't INFP. 

Take this test and let us know what it says. https://personalityhacker.com/pages/take-your-personality-test

I think this is one of the best ones out there. I ended up paying for their full assessment but they have a free one as well, but it might cost you your email address, not sure. 

Edited by Joshe

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30 minutes ago, AtmanIsBrahman said:

I'll give it a try (keep in mind there isn't a consensus on these)


Ne- potentiality

Se- actuality

Ni- will

Si- memory

Te- rationale

Ti- logic

Fe- ethics

Fi- morals

I think it's more like this:

Ne - Possibility

Se - Immersion

Ni - Insight

Si - Reference

Te - Execution

Ti- Precision

Fe -Harmony

Fi - Conviction

Edited by Joshe

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9 minutes ago, Joshe said:

Fair enough. For me, it's about about recognizing where it offers clarity. Like any lens, it has its blind spots. I like SD for the collective and Jung's functions for the individual. 

EDT is superior for individuals, especially for the work we do here:

 


"Finding your reason can be so deceiving, a subliminal place. 

I will not break, 'cause I've been riding the curves of these infinity words and so I'll be on my way. I will not stay.

 And it goes On and On, On and On"

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13 minutes ago, aurum said:

EDT is superior for individuals, especially for the work we do here:

Yeah, I've been meaning to dive into that. I actually printed the whole thing out and put it in a binder but never read it. Below is AI’s take on how the models compare. Notice the 9 Stages offers very little in terms of cognitive processing style. 

IMO, cognitive processing style is more predictive, meaning it gives you a clearer sense of how someone will actually think and behave, therefore more useful in real-world application, which, for me, is the whole point of knowledge acquisition. Knowledge is meant to be used, not just explored. If it has no practical value, you might as well be making scrapbooks. 

XHLLSSx.png

Edited by Joshe

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4 minutes ago, Joshe said:

Yeah, I've been meaning to dive into that. I actually printed the whole thing out and put it in a binder but never read it. Below is AI’s take on how the models compare. Notice the 9 Stages offers very little in terms of cognitive processing style. 

IMO, cognitive processing style is more predictive, meaning it gives you a clearer sense of how someone will actually think and behave, therefore more useful in real-world application, which, for me, is the whole point of knowledge acquisition. Knowledge is meant to be used. 

Just study both.

You are missing verticality if you just study MBTI. This is a huge gap in your predictive capabilities. 


"Finding your reason can be so deceiving, a subliminal place. 

I will not break, 'cause I've been riding the curves of these infinity words and so I'll be on my way. I will not stay.

 And it goes On and On, On and On"

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9 minutes ago, aurum said:

You are missing verticality if you just study MBTI. This is a huge gap in your predictive capabilities. 

True

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3 hours ago, chisel said:

If Illusion is beautiful can computer graphics, computer games, virtual reality, holograms be a space to create beauty? Not sure if it's too silly to ask this.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. 

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2 hours ago, Joshe said:

Not everyone experiences a violation of those values as a personal crisis - Fi-doms do.

INFP's are almost always indecisive because they makes decisions based on internal values, which can be slow, private, and nonlinear. They feel into it, they think into it, they intuit into it, and they wait to see how it all "feels". They often need time to feel out what’s right for them, which can look like hesitation or ambivalence. This is like one of their core traits, so if that's not you, you probably aren't INFP. 

Take this test and let us know what it says. https://personalityhacker.com/pages/take-your-personality-test

I think this is one of the best ones out there. I ended up paying for their full assessment but they have a free one as well, but it might cost you your email address, not sure. 

You have a good understanding of the cognitive functions - respect!

This test gave me INTJ - normally I type INFJ

I can only think I might be answering in a non-authentic way, since I have been scheduling & planning 2 large construction projects all day


Deal with the issue now, on your terms, in your control. Or the issue will deal with you, in ways you won't appreciate, and cannot control.

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1 hour ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

You have a good understanding of the cognitive functions - respect!

This test gave me INTJ - normally I type INFJ

I can only think I might be answering in a non-authentic way, since I have been scheduling & planning 2 large construction projects all day

Thanks! I was actually just thinking a little bit ago that I didn't think you were an INFJ, nor an INTP, but I saw the other day you displayed some pretty sharp intuition, so I figure you have to have intuition high up. Which led me to either INTJ or ENTJ. Although, you said you bowed to Jordan Peterson and you do that to everyone you meet, so that's a hint towards extroversion, but not necessarily because maybe it's just part of the image you've crafted. If you're introverted and do that intentionally, and you don't come from a culture that bows, I think that makes INTJ even more likely. 

I think you'd know if you were INTP and it doesn't seem like you have Fe in your 2nd slot (INFJ), unless your online persona is completely different than IRL. So I think that just leaves INTJ or ENTJ. Those make the most sense to me. If I had to pick, I'd pick INTJ. 

Also, are you project manager? If so, that's a common job for ENTJs & INTJs.

Come to think of it, if you're extroverted, super playful, and interested in all this shit, that's ENTP. 

Edited by Joshe

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51 minutes ago, Joshe said:

Thanks! I was actually just thinking a little bit ago that I didn't think you were an INFJ, nor an INTP, but I saw the other day you displayed some pretty sharp intuition, so I figure you have to have intuition high up. Which led me to either INTJ or ENTJ. Although, you said you bowed to Jordan Peterson and you do that to everyone you meet, so that's a hint towards extroversion, but not necessarily because maybe it's just part of the image you've crafted. If you're introverted and do that intentionally, and you don't come from a culture that bows, I think that makes INTJ even more likely. 

I think you'd know if you were INTP and it doesn't seem like you have Fe in your 2nd slot (INFJ), unless your online persona is completely different than IRL. So I think that just leaves INTJ or ENTJ. Those make the most sense to me. If I had to pick, I'd pick INTJ. 

Also, are you project manager? If so, that's a common job for ENTJs & INTJs.

Come to think of it, if you're extroverted, super playful, and interested in all this shit, that's ENTP. 

Ah! I would say I am quite different in real life. Definitely an introvert. I will try to illustrate what comes naturally, if you would like to give me your insight. Beware this is going to be a somewhat unstructured stream of consciousness. 

I have always been heavy with Ni use. I am familiar with the dreaded Ni-Ti loop, which I have much difficultly with. I have a lot of thought recursion I have become aware of since establishing a serious meditation practice. To break these Ni-Ti loops I typically do something physical (movement, music, food etc) or seek contact with people. These 2 things ground me out of the loop. It is really seeking a change of state. Many times I do not know what is good for me, thinking I can brutally think my way out of bad emotions or problems.

At baseline I thrive, and I am energized most, with intellectual conversation. I don't care about being correct, but I love hashing out ideas and theories. Theory and concepts, abstraction. Pattern recognition comes naturally to me. I love to collect information & facts over the long term to build a system I can use to understand other systems. I do this so I can expand my own understanding. I am consistently taken aback when others are unable to see the patterns in their lives they repeat. It might also help to know I skipped 2 grades in mathematics and was placed in accelerated learning classes in school. I will immediately look for the meaning behind any situation or concept.

It took me a very, very long time to establish habits round looking after myself. I neglected the quotidian elements of life and was stuck up my own arse in fantasy and sci-fi during my formative years. I am terrible at birthdays, traditions. Bad at making people feel welcome and looking after others in a nurturing way. All learned traits. I really like harmony in my relationships - it grinds my gears when others show no compassion or invalidate others. Having said that, I do often disregard others feelings when I am delivering knowledge I think they need to grow. I have been told I can be harsh by being too candid. But I do observe others intensely and try to tailor my advice to how I think they will best receive it. 

My overall driving aim in life is to help others around me grow by looking at patterns they loop through. I am also intensely creative and artistic. Dance, painting, drawing etc. I am future oriented. I do not dwell on the past. I do not tend toward nostalgia. Its either now or next. I look at the past as a way to see into the future, to extract the pattern. I am not the sort to typically regret or beat myself up regarding mistakes. I just don't ever think about the past at all, come to think on it. In terms of emotions and how I feel to about people, myself and situations - I struggle to know what is going on internally in that realm a lot. Often, I won't really be aware of how I feel about something until well after the event itself. I need to stop and assess what is going on internally to understand it. 

Does this help? 

It is interesting to note I may be defaulting to INFJ on tests due to conditioning society places on the sexes.

Also - yes I work in construction, in a variety of roles (estimating, contract administration, but mostly project management). I like the moving, multivariable system.

Edited by Natasha Tori Maru

Deal with the issue now, on your terms, in your control. Or the issue will deal with you, in ways you won't appreciate, and cannot control.

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7 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Get outta here you big Fe ENFJ harmony driven feel good bastard! 😜❤️

 

Ahaha you have no idea how happy it makes me to see harmony in my environment ❤️

Especially in a community where its nature is to rip each other apart and devour 😂


Connect with me on Instagram: instagram.com/miguetran

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5 minutes ago, Miguel1 said:

Ahaha you have no idea how happy it makes me to see harmony in my environment ❤️

Especially in a community where its nature is to rip each other apart and devour 😂

We use the boxing gloves here now, rather than the brass knuckles? :D


Deal with the issue now, on your terms, in your control. Or the issue will deal with you, in ways you won't appreciate, and cannot control.

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24 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

We use the boxing gloves here now, rather than the brass knuckles? :D

I’ve seen it all 🤭


Connect with me on Instagram: instagram.com/miguetran

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@Joshe interesting I have tested all over the place including infp. 

But one of the things people really hate about me is I give very blunt and honest feedback. 

I do try to soften it if I can (nowadays)... If I sense that people are avoiding the truth then I'll just say it's straight up.

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10 hours ago, aurum said:

EDT is superior for individuals, especially for the work we do here:

 

Why do you think it’s superior?


There is no failure, only feedback

One small step at a time. No one climbs a mountain in one go.

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7 hours ago, Ulax said:

Why do you think it’s superior?

Because EDT is vertical.

MBTI may potentially be better for understanding certain axes of intelligence, like aesthetic or somatic intelligence. But it's a horizontal model. It operates under the assumption that you have innate cognitive preferences that will not change, regardless of vertical development. So I argue it flattens developmental distinctions.

Ultimately I think it's worth studying both. 


"Finding your reason can be so deceiving, a subliminal place. 

I will not break, 'cause I've been riding the curves of these infinity words and so I'll be on my way. I will not stay.

 And it goes On and On, On and On"

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@Natasha Tori Maru

For better or worse, I think you're almost certainly an INTJ. 😆

If patterns just reveal themselves to you with little to no effort on your part, and if those patterns often invovle underlying motives, future outcomes, or context rather than content, and if you live with this daily, that's Ni-dom, which only occurs regularly in two types - INTJ & INFJ. Combined, these types account for roughly 5% of the population. Literally 95% of the population have no idea what we're living with here. lol. In a sense, we're aliens and we're the only ones who know it.

Thing is, you value Fe but it doesn't come natural to you. Fe doesn’t disregard feelings for the sake of delivering truth. Just look at Emerald (INFJ). She delivers truth but never rarely in a cold, blunt manner. I too feel compelled to show others the patterns or blind spots I've identified if I think they need it. And I haven't prioritized developing Fe, so I can relate to you there.

INFJs are typically naturals at making people feel welcomed. They do sense some detachment because they know the others don't see what they see, but they can easily put all that aside in service to harmony, but the INTJ doesn't have that ability, at least not without a lot of work.

Also, the "INTJ Architect" is a common stereotype, which does things like build systems to build systems. I'm doing the same thing with apps. I’m building apps that can build apps. It’s never just about making something now. It’s always about what it unlocks later, often driven by Te's need for efficiency. Everything points toward some bigger vision down the line, even if the vision isn't fully fleshed out yet.

Also, they say a strong sense of destiny or purpose is usually present in INTJs. It most certainly has always existed in me. "I don’t know the exact shape of it yet, but I know I’m meant to build something massive that changes the world for the better." This can cause some unhealthy INTJs to develop a God complex.

Regarding the past, the only purpose it serves to an Ni-dom is a dataset to extract patterns from, then discard. I have family members who like to dwell on the past and I can't stand it. Or if I'm around people that start talking about the good ol' days... Shut the fuck up!! Let's focus on bringing order to chaos so we can solve our problems or discuss something useful or something unseen and of significance. Let's read between the lines.

When I was a kid, I was super-fascinated with booby traps in movies like the Goonies and Indiana Jones. I was drawn to that which was unseen, yet complex. When I first saw those movies, I felt so alive. I'm not sure if it's like this for all INTJs but for me, it's always been about unseen, complex things and the possibilties of what I could do to manipulate or construct them.

I too struggle with self-care because I'm addicted to my inner world and I don't like to be taken away from it.

You sound like me regarding getting pissed at people when they don't show proper compassion or respect. That's the Fi. Fi knows what it feels like to be treated like shit and it really doesn't like to see it.

But also, Fi is justice-oriented and doesn't mind hurting feelings if it thinks someone deserves it.

Fi (INTJ): “That was wrong, and they need to feel the weight of it.”
Fe (INFJ): “That hurt people. We need to make things right again.”

I'm the same way regarding public outings or events. When I'm engaged in them, my thinking is almost completely shut off, and it isn't easy to turn it on if I need it. I think this is an unconscious survival strategy because I know my naturally deep processing and thinking are not socially acceptable, so I just walk around with wide perception, taking everything in, wearing a socially acceptable mask. As soon as the event ends and I return to solitude, recursive thought loops about everything that happened begin. 

The only function that doesn’t stand out strongly in your message is Te, but the whole tough-love growth thing is Te. Te doesn’t prioritize feelings. It says "here are the variables, here's the logic, now, do this to solve the problem". It cares about results.

Regarding society, this is definitely not the easiest function stack to have, especially for females. Society says "Women are supposed to favor nurturing and caring over cold calculation, results, and efficiency.", so your Te gets labeled cold. Ni gets dismissed as overthinking, and Fi gets forced into expactations it doesn't like. Directness = rude. Confidence = arrogance & intimidating. Efficiency = cold and harsh. So I think this is a particularly difficult type for females in our current society. 

They say the best thing an INTJ can do is develop their Te. Healthy INTJs are already strong in Ni, but without Te to execute, Ni just loops, usually with Fi, which creates tension because Ni, the driver, is vision-oriented, and when vision stays unrealized, it turns into frustration or emotional paralysis. If an INTJ is to be happy, they have to be making progress. 

Anyway, yeah, pretty sure all this makes you an INTJ female, which is the rarest of all breeds. lol. Congrats! I think it's a gift, myself. Let me know if any of this doesn't seem right about you. 

Edited by Joshe

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11 hours ago, PenguinPablo said:

@Joshe interesting I have tested all over the place including infp. 

But one of the things people really hate about me is I give very blunt and honest feedback. 

I do try to soften it if I can (nowadays)... If I sense that people are avoiding the truth then I'll just say it's straight up.

INFPs are sensitive to emotional tone, so it makes INFP unlikely, though not impossible. INTJ, ENTJ, ESTJ, and ISTJ are known for confrontation. If you're playfully combative in your bluntness, that could be ENTP.

First thing to do is figure out if you're oriented inwardly or outwardly. That would get you the first letter. From there, start researching every I or E type here https://www.typeinmind.com/fise and see which sounds most like you. It can be tricky to figure it out but you should be able to widdle it down to 2 possibilities. From there, it might take you some time to be sure. 

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