The problem of not knowing and acting on the relative world

[BipolarGrowth]

“Life is a land full of crocodiles. 
 

Life sucks because you don’t want there to be crocodiles. 
 

There is a way to end crocodiles. 
 

It is to become entirely infused with the reality of crocodiles with absolutely no resistance remaining to the reality that there are tons of crocodiles.”

Source: The Four Crocodilian Truths

Edited May 17, 2024 by BipolarGrowth

[Someone here]

You guys are goofing around a lot ..even Leo as well . Get serious about my question please .

The quality of this forum has dropped significantly since the day I joined. 

 

[BipolarGrowth]

On 5/13/2024 at 2:17 PM, Someone here said:

This is a problem im facing ..at this point im clueless about how to go about the rest of my life ..practically speaking like studying and career-wise ..the main reason is my discovery  that i can't be certain of anything than this present moment.  How can i know that studying hard will make me get wealth and payoff ? That's just one example. 

You’ve fallen into a nihilism of knowledge which is useless in the practical/relative world. Are you really uncertain that if you don’t brush your teeth your breath will stink? Get real man. How can you know that doing one thing will create a guaranteed result? You can’t. But you can use your reasoning to understand statistical probabilities and improbabilities. If you want to make wealth, study wealth generation and accumulation in your own time. University degrees tend to lead toward higher incomes and wealth, but I’d recommend getting a degree in something which is practically useful if you want to make money. This is such ubiquitous advice that I find it highly unlikely you haven’t heard of this before. Don’t get a degree in ventriloquy if you want to make a good living. Go for a STEM field, finance, or something of that sort, or you can rely on the passion route of studying and developing skills around your passion if you are certain you’ll have the energy in it and interest to see it through. Also, you don’t need a degree to become wealthy. We can’t find your life path for you. Leo has an entire Life Purpose course if you need help with direction. 
 

I am 100% certain that I am conscious and i exist How are you certain of this? Seriously. This isn’t a given. If you find comfort in the certainty of this statement, I can guarantee you that it is not something to have 100% faith in. 
 

but it is not possible for me to know with 100% certainty that other humans.. non-human organisms..the Earth and the rest of the Universe actually exist. I perceive my body..animals.. the Earth and part of  the rest of the Universe.
What does this have to do with wealth? Nothing. Get real. 

It is possible that what I perceive is either a dream or a hallucination or an illusion or a simulation and not objectively real. It is also possible that my perceived reality is actually real.. but I have no way of knowing this with 100% certainty. Given the fact that I cannot know with 100% certainty what is objectively real.. how can I know what is morally correct with 100% certainty?

Dream, hallucination, and reality are experientially equivalent. This doesn’t matter at all when it comes to practical affairs. There is no such thing as objective truth because experience is a subjective endeavor. 

Hoe can I know anything on the practical level if i don't know anything on the metaphysical/existential level ?

You are playing games with us and yourself by asking these questions. Having a reaction to that statement to the contrary is just another game. Stop the games. Go post on a wealth creation forum if you have to be on a forum. Spending time here mentally masturbating without the use of brain cells will not help you. 

Answered. 

[Someone here]

@BipolarGrowth

You haven't answered Jack shit handsome...you just made baseless- mixed with quasi Trolling- statements. I don't want "probabilities"..I want FACTS .. Yup. None of what you said changed anything..you still don't know if even you can continue reading this post to the end .you are not certain of anything. Just like me .maybe even worse .but see..I'm Epistemologically honest. You are not .

 Also i don't appreciate the Trolling and insults . I have worked at Starbucks for just over 3 years. These people are fucking idiots. It's just fucking coffee.. I'm not birthing your child or trying to kill you so please stop talking to me the way you are.

 

[UnbornTao]

We already take action in spite of our fundamental ignorance, so your worry isn't warranted. What works doesn't have to be true in any existential sense - and it isn't, since it is an activity. Action is action. As long as it is effective, then it does its job when it comes to our daily living.

 

Edited Thursday at 11:13 PM by UnbornTao

[Leo Gura]

On 5/17/2024 at 7:43 AM, Someone here said:

The quality of this forum has dropped significantly since the day I joined. 

Sounds like a you problem

[Hojo]

@Someone here

'have only one point .. what you  are saying  is likr if I'm playing chess I must take risks because I can't be certain of all  the possible movements of my opponent..so is life like  that? I'm rather shocked and disappointed..that life is not certain makes me uncomfortable. '

 

 

 

Life is not something you win. You cannot play life trying to outplay your opponent there is no opponent. You just play and play positively. God is planning everything according to you, trying to defeat imaginary obstacles creates them. Let go of thought it not meant to be this confusing.

'You have a right to perform your prescribed duties, but you are not entitled to the fruits of your actions. Never consider yourself to be the cause of the results of your activities, nor be attached to inaction.'

Live life like you arent trying to beat something and you might finish everything and one day sit there with nothing to do and then God will touch you  with its penis between your eyes and cum directly inside your mind.

Do that or let life fully crush you

Edited May 18, 2024 by Hojo

[cetus]

All the planning one could ever muster is no match for dumb luck.

Objective reality is a crapshoot.

[UnbornTao]

On 18/5/2024 at 9:03 PM, cetus said:

All the planning one could ever muster is no match for dumb luck.

Objective reality is a crapshoot.

Some people are more effective than others - that's not a coincidence.

Edited Thursday at 11:14 PM by UnbornTao

[Sincerity]

On 13.05.2024 at 8:17 PM, Someone here said:

This is a problem im facing ..at this point im clueless about how to go about the rest of my life ..practically speaking like studying and career-wise ..the main reason is my discovery  that i can't be certain of anything than this present moment.  How can i know that studying hard will make me get wealth and payoff ? That's just one example. 

I am 100% certain that I am conscious and i exist but it is not possible for me to know with 100% certainty that other humans.. non-human organisms..the Earth and the rest of the Universe actually exist. I perceive my body..animals.. the Earth and part of  the rest of the Universe. It is possible that what I perceive is either a dream or a hallucination or an illusion or a simulation and not objectively real. It is also possible that my perceived reality is actually real.. but I have no way of knowing this with 100% certainty. Given the fact that I cannot know with 100% certainty what is objectively real.. how can I know what is morally correct with 100% certainty?

Hoe can I know anything on the practical level if i don't know anything on the metaphysical/existential level ?

All of this is literally irrelevant to your life. Your problem is that you are too stuck in the head. 

"How can i know that studying hard will make me get wealth and payoff ?" - You should be able to do things for the sake of them, not the wealth and payoff. Developing character, acting on your motivations, growing in the process - THAT'S the point.

"Given the fact that I cannot know with 100% certainty what is objectively real.. how can I know what is morally correct with 100% certainty?" - For your purposes this is a useless question, just stop thinking and start acting on what resonates.

"How can I know anything on the practical level if i don't know anything on the metaphysical/existential level ?" - You can know, and you do. There is zero problem here.

Basically, this entire issue of yours is self-created mental prison. Focus on realizing yourself "ordinarily". Let go, see where you are led towards.

Acting in reality and getting the "ordinary" things done is, at least in my experience, what brings happiness on a very fundamental level, AND it is the most resisted thing and the mind wants to do literally anything else. Speaking from experience. "Anything but actually doing the things in my life!!!"

Drop the fantasies of living in caves and thinking about nebulous concepts all the time, even if you think they are the "truth". You've built an identity on that and letting go of it feels like dying, I get that. But you're not actually losing anything.

Good luck.

[Someone here]

15 hours ago, Sincerity said:

All of this is literally irrelevant to your life. Your problem is that you are too stuck in the head. 

"How can i know that studying hard will make me get wealth and payoff ?" - You should be able to do things for the sake of them, not the wealth and payoff. Developing character, acting on your motivations, growing in the process - THAT'S the point.

"Given the fact that I cannot know with 100% certainty what is objectively real.. how can I know what is morally correct with 100% certainty?" - For your purposes this is a useless question, just stop thinking and start acting on what resonates.

"How can I know anything on the practical level if i don't know anything on the metaphysical/existential level ?" - You can know, and you do. There is zero problem here.

Basically, this entire issue of yours is self-created mental prison. Focus on realizing yourself "ordinarily". Let go, see where you are led towards.

Acting in reality and getting the "ordinary" things done is, at least in my experience, what brings happiness on a very fundamental level, AND it is the most resisted thing and the mind wants to do literally anything else. Speaking from experience. "Anything but actually doing the things in my life!!!"

Drop the fantasies of living in caves and thinking about nebulous concepts all the time, even if you think they are the "truth". You've built an identity on that and letting go of it feels like dying, I get that. But you're not actually losing anything.

Good luck.

Thanks appreciate it but to me this isn't helping at all . You just handwaved my otherwise serious epistemological questions and have boiled it down to " this is all woo woo .talk just stop philosophising and get to work and have your shit together ".

You have to understand that I'm 100% serious and authentic about what I expressed here .stop assuming you know me better than I do know myself. 

I'm not in a good mental state . 

You are saying get the practical things in life handled first then you can sit on a lodge and contemplate about what the point of life is and topics from this ilk. 

I'm sorry but what I feel is 180 degrees backwards.  I must slove existence first before I can achieve great material success.  How can you succeed in a life that you don't even understand at all ? Imagine playing a new video game ..you have to first understand how it works and how to play it if you wish to pass it let alone achieve the top level in it.  

[UnbornTao]

@Someone here  You are writing here, yet at the same time you aren't conscious of the nature of language. How come? You don't need to know what an object is or how it works internally to use it. You likely drive a car or use a smartphone without the slightest idea of their inner workings.

Regarding your video game analogy: testing and exploring is precisely the point - you learn to play as you go, and you don't need to take a course on 'video game development' to figure out how to play.

Again, you're conflating use or effectiveness with 'truth'. Does it get the job done? Then that's what matters in that domain.

Edited Friday at 06:55 PM by UnbornTao

[Someone here]

20 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

You are writing here, yet at the same time aren't conscious of the nature of language. How come?

What's that got to do with anything? 

20 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

You don't need to know what an object is or its internal workings to use it. You likely drive a car and use a smartphone without the slightest idea of their workings. Regarding your videogame analogy, testing and exploring is precisely the point - you learn to play as you go, and you don't need to take a course on video game development in order to learn how to play it. 

That's correct.  So are you saying life is an open game and you just do your best and wait for pure luck or chance or some unknown force to reward you for your work? Because I honestly don't how most humans can manage their practical lives unless they are totally ignorant of the metaphysical proplem of uncertainty . Bare In mind I'm using a lite version of uncertainty by agreeing with your assumption that some things are uncertain and other things are certain ..but I hope I'm not the only person in the world who realizes that nothing at all is certain.

[UnbornTao]

@Someone here My point above is that you don't need to know what's ultimately true to be effective. You already do not know, and yet you act in spite of that. An amoeba also acts. The main purpose is survival, which is a different pursuit from the truth. You want the truth to be useful (or to be the same as what's useful), but it isn't. It seems you're hiding behind this condition of fundamental ignorance to undermine or avoid taking action.

Also, you're being overly intellectual. I could recommend being more grounded; focus on your breath and body, and observe your experience. This should help.

Edited Sunday at 09:19 PM by UnbornTao

[theleelajoker]

Regarding OP:

• To know what works (and what is more or less certain), you need data. Best data comes from action. 
• You don't know what action to take right now? No problem. Take no action and collect the data that arises from non-action. Observe this as closely as possible. What happens within your body? Your mind? Your surroundings?
• My current POV born out of experience is that there is no final answer to certain metaphysical question. It's just continues infinitely. Some concepts, ideas etc help but their purpose is IMO to help you to act not to understand. 

 

 

[Someone here]

23 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

@Someone here My point above is that you don't need to know what's ultimately true to be effective. You already don't know, and yet you act in spite of that. An amoeba also acts. The main purpose is survival, which is different from the truth. It seems you're hiding behind this condition of fundamental ignorance to undermine or avoid taking action. You want the truth to be useful, but it isn't. 

Also, you're being overly intellectual. I could recommend being more grounded; focus on your breath and body, and observe your experience.

 

19 hours ago, theleelajoker said:

Regarding OP:

• To know what works (and what is more or less certain), you need data. Best data comes from action. 
• You don't know what action to take right now? No problem. Take no action and collect the data that arises from non-action. Observe this as closely as possible. What happens within your body? Your mind? Your surroundings?
• My current POV born out of experience is that there is no final answer to certain metaphysical question. It's just continues infinitely. Some concepts, ideas etc help but their purpose is IMO to help you to act not to understand. 

 

 

Good advice .thanks ,dear forum lovely friends. 

[theleelajoker]

16 hours ago, Someone here said:

 

Good advice .thanks ,dear forum lovely friends. 

❤️

Takes courage to admit that you don't know. Takes courage to admit that you can't do sth. 

Who knows what impact your post has on others that have/had/will have same or similar experience (including me)

Edited Sunday at 11:24 AM by theleelajoker

[Someone here]

9 hours ago, theleelajoker said:

❤️

Takes courage to admit that you don't know. Takes courage to admit that you can't do sth. 

Who knows what impact your post has on others that have/had/will have same or similar experience (including me)

Thanks brother.  Hope it benefited you and others rather than causing more confusion. 

[theleelajoker]

1 minute ago, Someone here said:

Thanks brother.  Hope it benefited you and others rather than causing more confusion. 

For me: yes

[UnbornTao]

On 28/6/2025 at 8:00 PM, Someone here said:

 

Good advice .thanks ,dear forum lovely friends. 

No problem! Thanks for the thread/questions.

Edited Sunday at 09:01 PM by UnbornTao