Let me blow your mind real quick... You have never actually experienced 'NOW'.

[Davino]

2 hours ago, ivankiss said:

@Dodo

@Davino False. Even your average new age hippy knows that perception is illusory/illusion.

'Veil of perception'

Tell me something that is not mediated by perception. How are you gonna know "something" behind perception, if you don't perceive it? If it's imperceivable that's just a fantasy. If it can be perceived then, it's perception.

The idea of something behind the scenes running the show is archaic. Reality is much more intelligent and efficient than that. It's all the same soup. Each layer is created by perception, it does not exist. Atoms are created by perception zooming into existence and so on with quarks and strings. The same way zooming out, with galaxies, universes and so on. They are generated coherently by perception but there is just one elastic intelligent layer to existence that is identical to perception and Reality.

You haven't awakened to what perception is still, you are missing that facet and you are arriving at wrong conclusion like the only way of being present is by the end of the 5 senses which is physical death. There is nothing but presence lol, you are presently lost in the past we could say but present existence is all there could be and from present existence you delude yourself into a paradigm where such things as perceptual lag exists. 

Take a moment to experience perception and awaken to what perceiving reality actually is like. Focus your attention on actual perception for long periods and habitually and you will eventually breakthrough to the nature of perception.

[Princess Arabia]

5 hours ago, ivankiss said:

Ultimately, there is no such thing as perceiving, only being. Being is in real time, only.

Perception MUST be lagging. It MUST be delayed. That is simply how the illusion works.

I think this is so.

[ivankiss]

@Davino Bro, being is infinite and cannot be perceived in its enterity, ever. To perceive is a limitation. That which is being perceived is also limited, by definition.

From where I am, it's all perfectly clear. You are the one unable to see and move past certain lines, not me.

You just cannot seem to be able to wrap your mind around pure isness. Pure Beingness. You are stuck in subject - object awareness, claiming it's absolute, saying there is nothing more than it. 

It is possible to shift from perceiving to purely being. Instead of seeing the chair in front of you... being the chair, and everything else, of course.

Perception is never truly now, only being is. Deal with it.

 

[Someone here]

Yes . "You " have never "experienced " now . This implies a process that requires time .

NOW IS IMMEDIATE. cannot be experienced. It just is .

[strangelooper]

Perception/direct experience is reality. There is no delay, that's utter nonsense. There is no external world so there is no delay in the "stimulus". There is no stimulus, there is only direct consciousness of what is.

[DefinitelyNotARobot]

It's so funny because we are "not perceiving the now"... right now. In a sense you could say that us "not perceiving the now" is as close as you can be to the now. We can't see it precisely because we ARE it! IT is too intimate. To try and experience it is to cut it apart into an "experiencer", "experiencing" the "experienced" through an "experience". You loose yourself in the different facets of experience and loose sight of the broader structure which the very act of "experiencing" is pointing towards (or rather pointing from).

Edited April 10 by DefinitelyNotARobot

[Davino]

3 hours ago, ivankiss said:

It is possible to shift from perceiving to purely being. Instead of seeing the chair in front of you... being the chair, and everything else, of course.

how can you be it without perceiving it?

You surely have perceived being everything, as well as many other things...

3 hours ago, ivankiss said:

Perception is never truly now, only being is. Deal with it.

I dealt with it for a long time. Till I discovered perception and being are identical, actually the same one thing. To be is to perceive and to perceive is to be. How can being exist without perception/direct consciousness? How can perception exist without being?

You are negating the absolute perfection of this moment. The Perception you are having right now, the words, the room, your body... is beingness itself, there is no middle man.

[Davino]

1 hour ago, strangelooper said:

Perception/direct experience is reality. There is no delay, that's utter nonsense. There is no stimulus, there is only direct consciousness of what is.

Yeah, it's ingeniously simple

[Inliytened1]

10 minutes ago, Davino said:

 

 

can being exist without perception/direct consciousness?

A state of Pure Being has no perceiver because the subject/ object duality completely collapses.  So in essence perception is a complete illusion.   It is just an illusory layer on top of Being.  Yes it's a part of Being because all is one.  But basically perception and thought are the dream.   Can existence exist without dreaming? Yes it can just be itself.   It's when it starts dreaming and perceiving that it stops appearing as itself but as some other entity.

Edited April 10 by Inliytened1

[Davino]

12 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

A state of Pure Being has no perceived because the subject/ object duality completely collapses.  So in essence perception is a complete illusion.   It is just an illusory later on top of Being.  Yes it's a part of Being because all is one.  But asically perception and thought are the dream.   Can existence exist without dreaming? Yes it can just be itself.   It's when it starts dreaming and perceiving that it stops appearing as itself but as some other entity.

Mmm, I get what you're saying. 

I wanted to split hairs here with you but I prefer to abide in the singularity you just pointed

Thanks

 

I would like to clarify that, for me, there is no difference between consciousness and direct experience or perception. The world here is just perceiving itself without the duality or reflection of itself. It just is. I just don't see any such difference right now between, beingness, consciousness, and perceiving. And that mmm, feels nice

Edited April 10 by Davino

[Inliytened1]

9 minutes ago, Davino said:

Mmm, I get what you're saying. 

I wanted to split hairs here with you but I prefer to abide in the singularity you just pointed

Thanks

 

I would like to clarify that for me, there is no difference between consciousness and direct experience or perception. The world here is just perceiving itself without the duality or reflection of itself. It just is. I just don't see any such difference right now between, beingness, consciousness, and perceiving. Mmm, It feels nice

Then you're there. That's perfect.  But still right now you're in a certain state of Consciousness where you can perceive a chair.  There are states of consciousness where you don't perceive the chair - you ARE the chair.  And the same goes for anything other (when self and other dissolve)

Edited April 10 by Inliytened1

[Davino]

45 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

There are states of consciousness where you don't perceive the chair - you ARE the chair

How can I be the chair without perceiving that I am the chair?

That's what doesn't compute when I hear that. Unitive perception is a mode of perceiving just as the trinity of perceiver, perceiving and perceived is another mode of perception.

The rest is fine. Just wanted to clarify this point with you 

Edited April 10 by Davino

[Inliytened1]

1 hour ago, Davino said:

How can I be the chair without perceiving that I am the chair?

That's what doesn't compute when I hear that. Unitive perception is a mode of perceiving just as the trinity of perceiver, perceiving and perceived is another mode of perception.

The rest is fine. Just wanted to clarify this point with you 

You can't understand it without being in a non-dual state of Consciousness.  But if you havent watched Leo's video on what is perception i highly recommend it because it's mostly dead on.  Perception actually doesn't exist- it is an illusion.  Meaning it is only exists in the realm of duality.

Edited April 10 by Inliytened1

[Davino]

@Inliytened1 I'll watch the video. I'm gonna investigate deeper perception. I had a similar conversation with @Breakingthewall about perception and God that put me in a tight spot.

Maybe I have some blind spots and hopefully I can discover the truth of the matter. 

[Breakingthewall]

8 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

A state of Pure Being has no perceiver because the subject/ object duality completely collapses.  So in essence perception is a complete illusion.   It is just an illusory layer on top of Being.  Yes it's a part of Being because all is one.  But basically perception and thought are the dream.   Can existence exist without dreaming? Yes it can just be itself.   It's when it starts dreaming and perceiving that it stops appearing as itself but as some other entity.

Even without duality existence perceives itself. That's conciousness. Everything perceives itself, if not it couldn't exist, a fetus, a tree, even a atom 

[Javfly33]

9 hours ago, Davino said:

How can I be the chair without perceiving that I am the chair?

That's what doesn't compute when I hear that. Unitive perception is a mode of perceiving just as the trinity of perceiver, perceiving and perceived is another mode of perception.

The rest is fine. Just wanted to clarify this point with you 

There is no chair.

Only Being.

 

 

Edited April 11 by Javfly33

[Razard86]

The separation between now is the separation of knowing and being. This is the birth of logic, which needed to happen for a surprise present/future. If there was no separation between being and knowing being imagined you would know everything/be everything and there would be nothing.

[Davino]

4 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Even without duality existence perceives itself. That's conciousness. Everything perceives itself

I see it that way also, but I'm trying to invalidate it to see what happens. Maybe there is some angle about perception that I'm not seeing and other people are

[Davino]

@Razard86 what do you say about perception? What is perception? How does it relate with being, existence and reality?

[Dodo]

9 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

The separation between now is the separation of knowing and being. This is the birth of logic, which needed to happen for a surprise present/future. If there was no separation between being and knowing being imagined you would know everything/be everything and there would be nothing.

Logical side of the mind sleeps during dreams at night, yet you still get surprise present/futures within the dream which you could never think of as your own conscious self. So I dont think logic is responsible.

You said to me before that there are no boundaries. But as you say now, you cant experience anything if there are no boundaries, so I guess its important to have boundaries, even if they are illusory. If there are no bounderies it is up to us to set them.