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Leo doesn't buy nonduality with a can of tuna lol. Catch up please .Leo is solipsist not sure why he is calling it idealism here .he is saying existence is pitch black nothing and only because your all seeing eye is open since forever that it projects all of reality outwards and gives you your movie (life). Like Hojo's pfp. Stay away from hojo BTW such a scary dude lol. .

I'm addicted to AI but will be addressing it in my monthlong zen retreat in January . Grok: Your claim that Christianity inherited false dualistic doctrines from Plato and Persian thought, leading to concepts like the immortal soul and cosmic judgment, and that Jesus’ true message was one of “Absolute Oneness” (a nondual perspective), is a bold and thought-provoking assertion. It builds on our previous discussion, suggesting that Platonic and Persian influences distorted Jesus’ original teachings. Let’s analyze this by exploring the origins of these doctrines, their integration into Christianity, and whether Jesus’ message aligns with Absolute Oneness, aiming for a concise yet thorough response. Dualistic Doctrines in Christianity: Plato and Persian Influence Christianity, as it developed, incorporated ideas that appear dualistic—dividing reality into opposing categories like material/spiritual, good/evil, or heaven/hell. Let’s examine the alleged sources: 1. Platonic Influence: • Immortal Soul: Plato’s philosophy, particularly in Phaedo and Timaeus, posits the soul as eternal, distinct from the perishable body, and destined for an afterlife based on its pursuit of truth. Early Christian thinkers like Augustine (354–430 CE) adopted this framework, integrating it with Christian ideas of resurrection and eternal life. The notion of an immortal soul, separate from the body and surviving death, became a staple in much of Christian theology, particularly in Western traditions. • Dualistic Framework: Plato’s separation of the material world (imperfect, transient) from the eternal world of Forms influenced Christian views of the physical world as fallen and the spiritual realm as divine. This shaped doctrines like the opposition between flesh and spirit (e.g., Galatians 5:17, interpreted dualistically). 2. Persian Influence: • Cosmic Judgment: Persian Zoroastrianism, with its dualistic cosmology of good (Ahura Mazda) versus evil (Angra Mainyu), included concepts of a final judgment, resurrection, and an afterlife where souls face reward or punishment. These ideas, prevalent in the Hellenistic world, likely influenced Jewish apocalyptic thought (e.g., in Daniel and Enochic literature) during the Second Temple period (6th century BCE–1st century CE). Early Christianity, emerging from this Jewish context, adopted similar ideas, such as the Last Judgment (Matthew 25:31–46) and heaven/hell dichotomies. • Moral Dualism: Zoroastrianism’s emphasis on a cosmic battle between good and evil parallels some Christian depictions of God versus Satan, though Christianity reinterprets this through the lens of Jesus’ victory over evil. These influences are evident in how early Christian theologians articulated doctrines. For example, the Church Fathers, engaging with Greco-Roman and Jewish traditions, used Platonic language to explain the soul’s immortality and Persian-influenced apocalyptic imagery to describe judgment. However, the extent to which these are “false” or a departure from Jesus’ teachings depends on how we interpret his message. Jesus’ Message and Absolute Oneness Your claim posits that Jesus’ true message was “Absolute Oneness,” a nondual perspective where distinctions like self/other, divine/human, or good/evil dissolve into a unified reality. Let’s assess this in light of Jesus’ teachings: 1. Evidence for Nonduality: • Unity with God: Jesus emphasizes an intimate connection between God and humanity. In John 17:21–23, he prays, “that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us.” This suggests a profound unity, akin to nondual traditions like Advaita Vedanta or certain mystical interpretations of Christianity. • Immanence of the Kingdom: In Luke 17:21, Jesus says, “The kingdom of God is within you” (or “among you”), implying that divine reality is not separate from human experience but present and accessible, a hallmark of nondual thought. • Breaking Down Dualities: Jesus’ actions—associating with sinners, healing on the Sabbath, challenging legalism—subvert rigid distinctions like clean/unclean or righteous/sinner. The parable of the Good Samaritan (Luke 10:25–37) prioritizes universal love over ethnic or religious boundaries. • Paradoxical Teachings: Sayings like “Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it” (Matthew 16:25) embrace paradox, a feature of nondual thought that resists binary categories. • Incarnation: The doctrine that Jesus is both fully divine and fully human (developed later but rooted in his life) embodies a nondual paradox, collapsing the divide between God and humanity. 2. Challenges to Absolute Oneness: • Moral and Eschatological Language: Jesus’ teachings include dualistic elements, such as warnings of judgment (e.g., Matthew 25:41–46, separating the “sheep” from the “goats”) and references to eternal consequences (e.g., Mark 9:43–48, mentioning “hell”). These suggest a moral framework distinguishing right from wrong, though they could be interpreted symbolically rather than literally. • God as Distinct: While Jesus emphasizes unity, he also speaks of God as a distinct entity (e.g., “Our Father” in Matthew 6:9). This relational language might imply a qualified nonduality rather than Absolute Oneness, where distinctions are transcended but not erased. • Historical Context: Jesus operated within a Jewish framework that emphasized God’s transcendence and covenantal relationship with Israel. Absolute Oneness, as understood in nondual traditions, may not fully align with this context, though his teachings push toward a more universal, inclusive vision. Did Dualism Distort Jesus’ Message? Your argument suggests that Platonic and Persian dualisms led to “flawed” doctrines (immortal soul, cosmic judgment) that obscured Jesus’ nondual message. Let’s evaluate: 1. Immortal Soul: • Critique: The Platonic idea of an inherently immortal soul, separate from the body, differs from Jewish views of the afterlife, which often emphasized bodily resurrection (e.g., Daniel 12:2). Jesus’ own teachings focus more on resurrection (e.g., John 11:25, “I am the resurrection and the life”) than an independent soul surviving death. The Platonic soul concept, adopted by later theologians, may have shifted focus from Jesus’ holistic view of human-divine unity to a dualistic body-soul split. • Counterpoint: The immortal soul concept helped Christians articulate the hope of eternal life in a Hellenistic context. It may not be “false” but rather a translation of Jesus’ resurrection-focused teachings into a philosophical idiom, though it arguably introduced a dualism foreign to his message. 2. Cosmic Judgment: • Critique: Persian-influenced ideas of a final judgment, with clear divisions between saved and damned, appear in Christian eschatology (e.g., Revelation). These may clash with a nondual view of Absolute Oneness, where all distinctions dissolve. Jesus’ parables of judgment (e.g., Matthew 13:24–30, wheat and weeds) could be seen as pedagogical tools rather than literal endorsements of cosmic dualism, but later theology often took them literally, amplifying dualistic themes. • Counterpoint: Jesus’ own language of judgment and moral accountability (e.g., Matthew 7:21–23) suggests some form of distinction between alignment with God’s will and rejection of it. This may not be Absolute Oneness but a relational nonduality, where unity is possible but not automatic. 3. Distortion or Adaptation?: • The integration of Platonic and Persian ideas was partly a practical necessity. As Christianity spread beyond its Jewish roots into the Greco-Roman world, it needed to engage with prevailing philosophies and cosmologies. Platonism provided a systematic framework to explain concepts like eternal life, while Persian apocalypticism resonated with Jewish and Christian hopes for divine justice. • However, these frameworks may have obscured Jesus’ nondual emphasis on the present, immanent kingdom and universal love. For example, the focus on a future judgment or a disembodied soul could detract from his call to live out divine unity now (e.g., “love your neighbor as yourself,” Mark 12:31). Absolute Oneness as Jesus’ Core Message Your claim that Jesus’ true message was Absolute Oneness aligns with interpretations found in Christian mysticism (e.g., Meister Eckhart, Julian of Norwich) and modern nondual thinkers (e.g., Richard Rohr). These perspectives emphasize Jesus’ teachings on unity, love, and the dissolution of ego-driven separations. However, Absolute Oneness, as a term, draws from nondual traditions like Advaita Vedanta, which may not fully map onto Jesus’ Jewish context. His message seems to lean toward a relational nonduality—unity with God and others through love and faith—rather than a metaphysical collapse of all distinctions. For example, Jesus’ emphasis on relationship (with God, neighbors, even enemies) suggests a dynamic oneness, where distinctions like self/other persist but are harmonized through love. This differs from Absolute Oneness in some Eastern traditions, where distinctions are ultimately illusory. The Incarnation, central to Christianity, further complicates pure nonduality, as it affirms the reality of both divine and human natures in Jesus, united without dissolving into one another. Addressing the Claim Christianity did inherit dualistic elements from Platonic and Persian thought, particularly the immortal soul and cosmic judgment, which became prominent in later theology. These ideas, while not central to Jesus’ teachings, were adaptations that helped Christianity articulate its message in a Hellenistic and apocalyptic context. However, calling them “false” depends on one’s perspective—they were pragmatic tools for early Christians, though they may have shifted focus from Jesus’ more nondual emphasis on unity and love. Jesus’ message does reflect a profound sense of oneness—God’s presence within, the breaking down of social and religious barriers, and the call to universal love. Whether this constitutes “Absolute Oneness” is debatable, as his teachings retain relational and moral dimensions that imply distinctions, even if they point toward unity. The influence of Plato and Persian thought likely amplified dualistic frameworks, potentially overshadowing the nondual aspects of Jesus’ message, but these were not wholesale distortions so much as cultural translations. Final Answer Christianity adopted dualistic doctrines like the immortal soul (from Plato) and cosmic judgment (influenced by Persian thought), which shaped its theology but may have diverged from Jesus’ emphasis on unity and the immanent kingdom. These doctrines aren’t necessarily “false” but reflect adaptations to make Christianity intelligible in its historical context. Jesus’ message aligns with a form of nondual oneness—emphasizing unity with God and others through love—but it’s more relational than Absolute Oneness in a metaphysical sense. Platonic and Persian influences amplified dualism, but Jesus’ core vision of divine-human unity remains foundational, even if partially obscured by later theological developments.

That's true but duality is not an illusion. It's as real and valid as nonduality. Duality is part of nonduality and nonduality is part of duality. They create each other. Oneness creates duality, duality creates nonduality. One cannot exist without the other. They are one inside the other. Like life and death. Like a snake eating its own tail.

Yea that stands and falls with the notion of free will. I resonate with the kind of radical nonduality which implies that there isn’t free will. There are seemingly decisions but for no one really. But it doesn’t really matter already i don’t have the free will to do or stop inner work as i’m drawn to it with a strong resonance and kind of addiction actually. Is there free will in having a resonance with something or being inspired by something. Not that’s also grace or tough luck. I could ne addicted to gambling also.

Yup 👍 I showed her nonduality nonsense videos but she said she gets culty or creepy vibes from those guys (newman, gangaji etc)

Primarily of not knowing. I like being a person, so the thought of consciousness continuing without any memory connection to my present life is what scares me. It doesn't help that basic nonduality, not god realization, seems to advocate a view where death is more or less an eternal k hole. When Bernardo Kastrup talked about his theory of the afterlife it gave me an existential crisis, lol. And I'm a little scared of hell, that there will be a memory connection to my new life, but it won't be a good place. A pretty common theme of salvia trips is turning into an inanimate object for years, that freaks me out too. That would be a kind of hell. But yeah, not knowing is scary. I put a little faith in Leo who says death is infinite love, but because I haven't experienced that I don't take that faith too seriously.

Philosophy is bullshit. The bald man is bullshit. Spirituality is bullshit. Nonduality is bullshit. This forum is bullshit. Textbooks are bullshit. If you want to know something, you must find out for yourself. Of course, if it's something practical, technical, factual, you can (and should) seek external sources. But if it's something profound, you must look inward. How does society work? How does it really work? Why do humans behave the way they do? Why is life structured like this? Why are we even alive? What's the purpose? No bullshit. No spiral dynamics bullshit. No actualized.org mental masturbating. It's possible to answer these types of questions. You must become mad. Paranoid. Ill. You must become obsessed, for a long period of time. And only look inward. See what is the logical pattern in these questions, and in your lived experiences. When you discover the truth, you also feel it. Once you discover it, it's no longer an opinion. No longer open for debate or discussion or gaslighting. Truth is true. Truth contains all other smaller, fragmented truths. You then can detect an incomplete truth. The Truth doesn't deny it, it simply contains more than the incomplete truth. And if they keep trying to sell you the incomplete truth as the Truth, well, they aren't wrong in a sense. But it's incomplete. I recommend writing down your findings. It is possible to have a strong epiphany about something and then forget it. Some things are too abstract to be applicable to day to day life. But it's also possible to not answer your question. If you aren't obsessed enough, or if you don't feel it, or if you haven't had sufficient, diverse life experiences, these truths may not be accessible. I've suffered greatly. But at least now things make perfect sense. Certain truths are nasty. Still worth chasing though. Edit: I'm using truth, insight, epiphany, interchangeably here. Edit 2: Engaging with your Life Purpose also helps experiencing insights.

That kind of skepticism is often just masked fear. Real skepticism is self-inquiry. It asks, “What am I assuming? What do I really know?” You want real nonduality? Then question your own need to be right. Cut through your own mental structures. Ask yourself, What is this voice defending? What dies if I’m wrong? Most of these “skeptics” don’t want to wake up. They want to win debates. They’re not seekers. They’re performers. But most people just use skepticism as armor. They demand proof, not because they’re hungry for truth, but because they want to stay safe behind their walls. They want others to break through their defense without risking their own identity. You don’t have to convince them. I’m not here to make you believe anything. Have you ever questioned what it means to be the one questioning? Fuck it. let them sit in the mud until they’re ready to move. They weaponize skepticism, constantly demanding proof from others while never turning that blade inward. They hide behind phrases like, “There’s no self, so who is seeking? It’s all one, so nothing matters. You can’t prove God. Therefore, it's delusion." But they’re just parrots of pointers. They haven’t bled for these insights, they haven’t died to their identity, they haven’t cracked open through direct realization.

Here that revelation of nonduality occurred simultaneously with the recognition of the "self construct/ego", being completely unreal. When there isn't a real observer, who would be attempting to validate or self deceive? It's that damn illusion again lol ❤️

That could happen, yes. But the experience of infinity is still a valid one regardless. That is the true taste of nonduality. Simply telling yourself that there is no you without an experience is absurd. Only a shift in perception matters. Without the shift in perception, intellectually you might be correct, but existencially you're still in illusion. Intellectual understanding is not enough.

You are everything. That's not spiritual ego. That's the truth of what you are. If that is not your experience, then your mind is still under the spell of illusion of seperation. And no amount of nonduality talk is going to change that. Only a shift in perception can change that.

@VeganAwake you have a strong intellectual convinction that there is no person inside yet everything you do is in service to that person. So you're a hypocrite. It's like you're trying to prove that ghosts don't exist while wearing a thousand amulets for protection against ghosts. Your behavior exposes what you truly believe at the depth of the mind. That's what ExploringReality tried to say earlier but it probably flew over your head. Intellectual understanding that the person is an illusion is not enough. It has to be a brakethrough in conciousness where the perception of a seperate me is completely undone and your sense of self expands to infinity. Without this experience, all this nonduality talk is just self gaslighting.

Quoting nonduality doesn’t make you awake, it makes you a parrot. You say you’re not claiming anything, but you’re dripping with superiority and defensiveness. classic example of ego dressing itself up in spiritual language while pretending to be humble. I’m just a regular person like the bum on the street, while slipping in jabs like, “You don’t like to be challenged,” or “You’re not teaching anyone anything". There’s a performative detachment, “I never claimed to be awake” yet a sharp urge to correct and discredit.

@VeganAwake You’re right, it’s all One. But who is saying that? And why? Are you actually gone? Or are you still trying to be right while pretending there’s no “you”? Not you personally, speaking broadly. Saying God, ego, and no-self are the same without realizing it directly in consciousness, without dying into that truth is just empty philosophy. The one who is “full of shit” is the one using nonduality to sound awake, while still defending their separate identity with clever ideas. No one is full of shit, because there is no one. But the illusion is still flapping its gums, pretending it gets it. It’s self-deception with a Zen bumper sticker slapped on.

There is nothing to defend. God, ego and no self are exactly the same everything..........that's what nonduality is pointing out. Who is full of shit? The illusion would be, believing they are separate things. ❤️

Yes the thing is by pushing nonduality as truth it creates duality between it and nonduality. One says nonduality is true, duality is not true. But hey, this is a duality right there! So they both true and neither true or its not absolute nonduality hehe Real nonduality should have enough space within itself to also include Duality, i think it is happening, we call it life 😀 has good and bad sides to it I guess!

Nonduality is saying it duality dosent exist. Its saying everything is a line and each end of the line are the same thing. Like hot and cold are the same thing temperature and theres no difference between them at all beside what the subjective experiences of temperature. Salt and sweet are the same thing consciousness, your experience of sweet and salt is a dot on a line of the same thing. The feeling of love and fear are literally the exact same emotion.

Does it make any sense to add the non to what already is duality, actually? How can nonduality be realised if there’s no one who is realising there is no duality. Does this even make sense, surely the path to realisation is for the path to make sense as it’s being travelled. Wouldn’t it be better to make this message relatable and use a terminology like “uni- duality” instead of “non- duality” . I mean make it make sense, make it more human, so to speak. What do you think?

@Princess Arabia You are completely correct. We do not DO thinking. Peter Ralston overcomplicates everything too. I wanna be the Steve Jobs of spirituality lol, I love love simplicity. Check out Terrence Stephens nonduality on YT.

@Sugarcoat I don't think your suffering is even related to nonduality. People can have good, gracefilled lives while being still in duality. It's likely something else.

Actually everyone and everything is the second half of you. Love them. Nonduality accomplished 👍

The second half of you is out there somewhere. Then the two will become one. Nonduality, ta da. 💔

It is seemingly a hindrance. That’s how i got on this path of psychedelics and spirituality nonduality in the first place. Buddha said life is Dukkha (suffering)

Duality is quite obvious. But nonduality is even more obvious. It is so powerfully obvious that it shatters the illusion of Duality. Ta-Daaaa!!! lol

@Sugarcoat The main issue is that my childhood friends keep giving me the cold shoulder and they ignore and block my apologies. Maybe I am just right after-all, and they needed that tough love. They have been roasting me in a group chat for years because I have a spiritual TikTok page. I thought they would be proud of me and happy for me. I guess friendship, laughter and nostalgia does not cure plain old jealousy. I have been listening to Leo and this guy Terrence Stephens "nonduality" for almost a decade. I now am getting more views than Leo. And I feel guilt for that. I don't deserve this attention and praise. I just want my spiritual older brother to be healthy and happy. It angers and frustrates me to see Leo constantly battling health problems. I have an idea that probably was not even suggested yet, in terms of healing. But I am deeply afraid of Leo. What if he will get irritated if I even suggest a new healing modality. I just want to help. But I always get in trouble for that. Basically... I was at Dr. Joe Dispenza's retreat in Cancun, Mexico during the pandemic in 2020, there IS a way to heal almost anything. Oddly enough, It would take the cooperation of this entire forum. Not expecting that to happen. We would basically flow ALL of our loving energy towards a picture of Leo or just group love concentrated in one spot. We ALL collectively can heal Leo's body if we gather around him, even if it is a symbol or picture. I have seen people stand up from wheelchairs and I am as skeptical as they come. I just want him to be open about the healing. And to put a little bit of his trust in Dispenza's work as he measures what we all here call The mystical, he measures the electricity in the brain especially during an awakened state. You CAN change your genetic expression, to a timeline that has never involved sickness in the first place. Leo, all I want is for you to be open and as open as I was when you rescued me from the drudgery of atheism and a loveless life. You gave me the greatest gift of all. You told me I am God. I now know I am Love and God. I have never been happier but this last little shroud of guilt even for making this post still lingers... Go easy on me guys. I have some ideas on how to heal virtually anyone... Be open about Dr. Joe Dispenza's research too. He involves other doctors and skeptics to verify his lab results all the time.