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Here is another pointer (just a slightly different way of looking at it)... Pay attention to the room. You notice there are things in the room. Most of us pay attention to the "things"... What about the space?? Did you ever stop to consider the space? The nothingness that allows all things (including you) to BE... Ever tried to become one with that space?

Now that @Galyna mentions it, on a second read @Salaam you are saying that: "There are 118 elements on the periodic table and they all have different reactions and chemistry with each other. How would the world work if there was only one element? What would it combine with to form blood, bone, organ, and muscle tissue?" You are talking there about physical world, and the "idea" that everything is one, is beyond physics. Imagine the "nothingness" that is consciousness or awareness, and can create matter of 118 elements, or anything from nothing. Because it is nothing and everything. I know what I am saying is a concept too, but it is not ONE "physically" that Buddhism and other philosophies refer to.

@Lorenzo Engel Check out the clip below...at 34:45 Leo started to discover the Zen term, the Ox's tail. What does this mean? Now...hold on...Ox's tail...are they really talking about an animal or something else? Check out Shinzen Young's clips on The Ox Herding Pics: https://youtu.be/x8aN9O73lg https://youtu.be/0PQonSiGkVE https://youtu.be/Ozca_5ifwQ0 The question is, why do they tell the story this way? Very ancient story. And, what is Riding the Ox Backwards really mean in the end according to an enlightenment experience? It's an interesting but discreet story. Anyone who has had an enlightenment experience will tell you that the experience is an outer body experience without the human mind & without the fictional ego, literally. The ego doesn't exist in an enlightenment experience. All you "feel" is peace (nothingness/everythingness = one with the universe) Whereas in the human mind, the ego is there because of "choice," or unawareness. But, if you would like to talk about it with someone, like a master or guru or whoever, there has to be an understanding between the two-no judging. How do we make use of the understanding of enlightenment and/or enlightenment experiences? Below is a clip of Leo talking about creating world peace. How do we discover our talents/gifts in order to contribute to this? Below are some more clips: (Note: I just want to make a little note here. All that I've said has nothing to do with religion. It's the meaning I'm trying to communicate. Riding the Ox Backwards is an extraordinary experience of time & space where one is facing backwards. )

Learning about the ego through enlightenment experiences & simple understanding of enlightenment... Negative voice and emotion = fictional ego...the thought that helps you to solve problems, go for your life purpose, go for transendence morality, seek for enlightenment that is coming from the "everythingness" and "nothingness" is your true self. This is what "you" call being enlightened. In the end, "you" want to contribute to peace in this world. Having enlightenment experiences is different from being enlightened. Enlightenment experiences are outer body experiences or any wisdom that you get that gives out of the ordinary/meaningful info in life. It helps you understand your fictional ego.

LOL. Mal jumps off the soap box, drops the megaphone and walks off into nothingness

*Mal drops non existent mic and walks off into nothingness*

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1612680208/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1467541336&sr=8-1&pi=SY200_QL40&keywords=Guide+to+Investing+by+Robert+Kiyosaki&dpPl=1&dpID=41UqvEnLtYL&ref=plSrch Yes, true, but I prefer one on one especially with enlightenment experiences, or I like watching informative clips, like Leo's clips, and then researching. Once you find someone that could tell you a lot more, and it's actually informative and not just make-believe, there are a lot of discoveries. I know one can see more than just the no-self (everythingness/nothingness). Even Leo mentioned Ox's tail (Zen terminology) in one of his enlightenment clips. In other words, what I'm trying to say here is...you want to talk to someone who will not shed the wrong light. Both trust and knowledge has to be there. Leo did say in one of his clips-I don't remember which one-maybe it's his Graves model clip-not to get caught up in debates. I do agree with him. We need a lot of time for our life purpose. Yes, of course, it can be the same. Mine happen to be the same. I'm a bilingual teacher (career at a school). I'm also working online, have my own website, and wrote my own book (my startup). I wish you the best on your journey. Much success and peace.

Yea we've been over this. You have yet to show any depth of understanding to match your level of self-aggrandizement. Last time we talked, you were still working on "combating" your thoughts. Unlike anyone else here, my thoughts are completely my own. I'm choosing and mixing multiple potential realities on the fly, while people are still stuck on nothingness, and other beginner shit. Also, don't think I haven't noticed you've recently started talking about your "core". I wonder where you got that from?

Consciousness doesn't really exist. It only appears to exist in the Absolute nothingness. I am nothing, you are nothing and awareness is also nothing. There is indeed no perceiver to be found. But we are not a perception, because if we are a perception there has to be a perceiver. What 'we' are is the same consciousness/nothingness as the Absolute. Our minds don't really 'know' anything for there isn't anything to be known, the mind can throw some vague concepts around trying to define this consciousness but it cannot. And how could it? These seeming thoughts appear in the thing that it's trying to define. It's like a single cell in your big toe trying to define what the human body is, it can't be done because it can never see past the toe.

Meh, that's kind of dogmatic. You might want to ease that stance a little, so you don't miss out on nuance. I'm assuming that was just an off-the-cuff response? Yes, when it comes to sharing information there are limits, in a lot of ways we can only be a reference for each other in that respect. Definitions without self-referential experience to connect to, won't have much practical application as it is, but in this case the definition, in and of itself isn't the problem. The issue lies in what action people choose in response. There is a difference between using another as a reference or answer that replaces or substitutes the transfer of understanding that comes with involvement and experience, versus using another as a reference for gaining perspective on how to enhance and enrich the developmental process in concert with an actual practice. It's helpful to have some one point out structures behind the mind, that over time they can work to sensitize themselves to. And just as precious, is sharing structures of accountability and self-balancing that protects the integrity of continued development. I assume that's what you attempt with your videos in a way? Anyways, speaking of limitations or barriers, Bruno, it is also very important to work on becoming aware of limitation and learning from it. Gaining nuance with your own personal, dynamic, context-sensitive, "ceiling and floor". Some people feel limitation and respond with frustration, despair, anger, but it can also be precious, and enlightening (I don't mean no-self enlightenment here, I mean clarity). For instance my internal awareness is so deep and sensitive, that I can pick up on very fragile things going on inside my body. However, placing my awareness directly on those things, causes damage, making me sick. Why? It's because awareness in and of itself has a weight to it, like how you can feel the weight of a person's eyes/gaze on you even with your eyes closed. That weight can disrupt or distort the integrity of those fragile things structures and patterns of movement. So, with that experience we learn that even awareness has limitations, but those limitations don't necessarily mean loss, but instead an opportunity for trust and synergy with another part of who we are. Instead of trying to be directly aware in isolation, I mediate the weight of my awareness, through multi-dimensionality and contrast. Connecting with the larger structure they're a part of and gaining deeper understanding indirectly, from the inter-relations going on within that structure. Actually here is a video that better describes the patterns and structures inherent to seemingly invisible things, that are made visible via contrast. Contrast in this case, being the use of salt or sand to create a chain of inter-relation with the vibrational frequencies to make visible, what we could not directly perceive in isolation. Much like dusting for prints, it is the synergy and contrast of the dust and skin-oil that affords us the opportunity to be more aware. In a similar way, this is how I learned and gained capability with 12/? of the invisible structures I balance at all times that work behind and in concert with "thinking". Relating with how they all work and depend on each other, provides me an inexhaustible supply of growth experiences that changes and develops as I change and develop, creating momentum of synergy. See, it is experiencing these kinds of realities first-hand which make me shake my head at people who dismiss difference and contrast. People who say that all there is, is nothingness or everything is an illusion. That's a fucking ignorant and irresponsible stance. Even the void has a purpose and creates contrast when it inter-relates with everything else. It's a dielectric material. The universe is filled with different patterns of motion and shape and they all interact and have different chemistries with each other. For instance, notice how in the video the higher the frequency the greater the complexity of shape, but also how that complexity impacts uniformity. Notice where the the thickest lines are, how the rising and falling of motion affects the activity of the salt and the porousness of shape. Which area's have the highest zones of activity and which don't. There are principles of reality and nature and working with ourselves right there for people to understand, if we take the time to feel out how these interactions work together and inter-relate. Everything has a shape or pattern, even thoughts. Each thought also has a patterned chemical cascade, which plays a part in supporting it's integrity of shape and fidelity of expression. Why lose out on all that beautiful nuance and detail with an extreme or ignorant stance? I hope this helps.

@Greatnestwithin Good, when you do not find yourself while inquiry remember that you are not failing. Remember, who You are is pure infinite nothingness, and this is quite impossible for the mind to grasp as it can only grasp somethingness, it cannot grasp nothingness, it wasn't made to. Leo explains this very beautifully in his Enlightenment Guided Inquiry @ 55:00. I definitely recommend you to watch it if you haven't https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oq4NDMNDzSs A self realized person would see life and death as an illusion because he would realize that "he" was never alive to begin with, ever. The body and mind was active, sure, however, there was really no one that operated it, and ever will. A self realized person when coming to "his" demise would not flinch an ounce of fear when death arrives of the mind and body, for he has already realized the very nature of one's self and reality. That you are the Infinite, Divine, that the body/mind experiences from. There is no more identification with the body/mind, only to the divine nothingness, so then what is death of the body/mind mean to the self realized person? Yeah, it means nothing! Aha!

Hi, I'm wondering if anyone can help understand how the subconscious relates to the authentic, true self. For a long time I have been in the process of tweaking and refining both my lists of top values and strengths as well as my life purpose statement. Every time I feel something click on the "inside", I feel like I'm making progress. In my head I'm conceptualising this as trying out different thoughts and theories and "checking" them against my subconscious, looking for the "gut reaction" or intuitive understanding I'm on the right track. However, I've also read a lot about how your subconscious seems to be largely constructed from your own life experience and can be re-programmed, through various mind techniques (which I've also been practicing), which makes me wonder, am I "checking" for a gut reaction or intuition against some sort of arbitrary state of thoughts / currently buried in my subconscious? I guess my questions are: 1. Is the subconscious where intuition or that "gut feeling" comes from, or does that come from somewhere deeper, like your "true self" or "highest self"? If the subconscious is constructed on the fly and prone to change, then it does not seem to me like a source of truth. The subconscious also seems likely to harbour as many negative thoughts as positive, if not more so. 2. Does the feeling of knowing your life purpose and your top values ultimately come from being in tune with your subconscious, which just happens to be configured to be a certain way, at a certain point in time? Or, are your values and purpose resonating with you on a more spiritual level, stemming from your authentic self - the true self that is essentially nothingness? Is there a distinction to be made between what's "true" for the body / mind and then a higher level of truth which does not care about life purpose or values? 3. What is the relationship between the subconscious and the true, authentic self? Does anyone have any insight into what kind of role the subconscious mind would play in the life of an enlightened person, or how it might operate? Would it operate in the same manner as it does for an unenlightened person, or would it simply be reduced to purely managing the workings of the body; digestion, heartbeat, breathing etc.? I've been struggling for a while to reconcile these questions, any help would be greatly appreciated!

@governor Dharma means the Buddah nature as far as I'm concerned. From what I understand we need an embodiment in human form, because how can "nothingness" be otherwise expressed of it were not through a teacher?

The ability of the brain to create objects within awareness from raw data (sight, smell, touch, etc) is so fundamental to truly understanding the breadth and scope of awareness itself. As an experiment, do the following: 1) Pick a mug 2) Now describe the mug using as many adjectives as you can (hard, shiny, smooth, etc) 3) Now, ask yourself: "Are any of the words I used to describe the mug an objective description of the mug?" Most people would agree that a mug is hard, but that is not objectively true -- from the perspective of someone that works with titanium drill bits all day, a mug is soft. From the the perspective of someone that makes disco-balls, a mug is rather dull in its appearance. Notions of soft/hard, shiny/dull, smooth/rough, light/heavy are all dependent on your frame of reference (and how your brain is currently wired). In fact, you can easily adopt the view that a mug is soft: imagine it just crumbling under the weight of a 10 tonne steel block. This view is no more false than the idea that a mug is hard! But here is where the interesting part comes in... Since a mug can be described as hard or soft, which is it? Both? Neither? What starts to emerge is that there are an infinite amount of ways to describe a mug. At the same time, the mug is objectively none of these things -- that is, the mug is in reality 'empty', only taking on characteristics once a mind comes along and gives it 'life', so to speak. To truly understand this is to see nothingness and infinity in a flower -- it is the ability to hold paradox in ones mind without cognitive dissonance. To truly understand this is to see how your own mind is sitting in a particular frame of reference to the world. Hard mode: Is the object you call a mug, really a mug? What is the purpose of a mug? To a young child, maybe it is a cave for a toy dinosaur? Which one is true? Play.

Awareness also only exist at the present moment. It exists only after the senses and thoughts. Without a sense, will you have the awareness which know the sense? They happened as cause and effect nature. Awareness has to be trained. So that later it appears naturally right after all the senses and thoughts. In enlightenment experience, that awareness sees everything is not permanent and also sees itself that it is also not a permanent nature. So the mind prepare itself to let go of everything. Then.... become NOTHINGNESS.

Why are we talking about all these? Nothing has a form, form is empty... this forum is emptiness Enjoy the nothingness of the forum Oooooohhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Good question! But no, don't worry that when awareness rises you will feel more shitty. It's the opposite. It might seem that way if you just think about it logically - like you do - but it is more like this: When awareness rises you literally become aware that everything you do is like a play. Sometimes you play the "good" side (when you are in your higher self and for example learning you for studies) and sometimes you play the "bad" side (when you are in your lower self and for example smoking pot while binging on ice cream and watching a netflix marathon). Not only your action separates in these categories (good / bad - white / black) but everything goes on in a similar way. For example you try to live your whole life (very passionately) not to die, because you have the sense in you that dying is something that just mustn't happen. Through awareness you begin to acknowledge how everything can bee seen as games, cycles and similar patterns. Not only that, but you also begin to see how you began to involve yourself so passionately in trying to make the one side win that now you are terribly afraid that black might win. Moreover, you know back in your mind that black will win in the end so you structure your whole life to get so involved in all kind of bullshit (other games) so that you don't have to face the fact that black wins in the end. And you just make too much of it. Awareness shows you that you are nothingness, incarnating itself in all kind of different games and patterns and that you are white and black, life and death and really can't die. If you begin to see that, you might still come across pains but it won't fuck with your head any more. It is by far one of the most cleansing and nice things to experience that you as the great self are immortal. It feels like being let out of yourself. And now ask yourself this: Isn't that really what you try to accomplish with all your bullshit involvements you make in your life? Cheers from Berlin,

@Lorenzo Engel I can relate to that experience. It may be that the mind transcends all thought. Mind comes to a dead stop and only awareness remains. You can actually watch a thought coming out of nothingness and arising into consciousness like a bubble. It is a very blissful state of mind being at rest. Sometimes it is referred to as the state of Samadhi.

During a SN Goenka vipassana retreat last week I experienced something very new for me. I was lost in unconscioussness, sleepyness and completely insane thoughs during a morning meditation. Suddenly a though popped and there was no reaction to it. As it dropped back to nothing I 'latched on' to it and dropped with it. At first nothingness seemed really far away but then just miliseconds after it was right at my face. Then for what seemed like 3 seconds my experience resumed itself to whiteness, silence, discrete joy and immense peace. No body, no world. Then body came back, and with it extreme contraction back into it. This left me excited and puzzled, very much. I wanted some feedback on this. How can I interpret this? Can I hold myself in that space for longer? Can I recicle this event for more growth? Thank you for your time

actually the idea of no self should be dropped, its an idea, a thought, a philosophy, it serves no good purpose. its about experiencing ones core being, what is your core being, it is the source of life, the creator of all things, the ground of all being, all knowing, all powerful, it should never be looked at as nothingness or no self, because it is all there is, everything else arises out of that.

@Bronsoval After life is all depending on your nature of this life. Did Leo say it's nothingness after life? Maybe he meant something else. All physical existences and mental existences are supporting each other and happening together at the same time. For example, your body is changing as well as your mind. When a person is stressful, his body is also affected by his mind and causes illness. Also both body and mind are happening or renewing again and again according to cause and effect nature. If there's a cause, there will be an effect. Every mental state, Buddhist called Nama and physical state will appear at the same time depending on each other. The quality of mind and body must be equal. If not the weaker state will adjust to be equal to the stronger state. For example, if stress level is stronger, body will also turn stressful and weaker. If the mind is happy and full of energy, body will also be energized. Or if the body is very sick, a person will be stressful if his mind isn't strong enough to lift the physical state up. That's the connection between body and mind and how they are supporting each other. So... when the body is very weak to the point where it cannot continue to renew with mental states or mental state is just to weak or stronger than physical state, a person dies. Because the mental state has to seek another physical body that fits well. By the way, we also should know that there is no distance or separation in this universe. So don't be thinking how the mind travel. So... as soon as a person dies, his mind will attach to some other physical body that fits well with the nature of the mind. That way, a human can become an animal or human again or something higher in the universe. Christian refers as angel, Buddhism refers to other beings in universe. You're responsible for everything you have now.

Negative voice and emotion = fictional ego...the thought that helps you to solve problems, go for your life purpose, go for transendence morality, seek for enlightenment that is coming from the "everythingness" and "nothingness" is your true self. This is what "you" call being enlightened. In the end, "you" want to contribute to peace in this world. Having enlightenment experiences is different from being enlightened. Enlightenment experiences are outer body experiences or any wisdom that you get that gives out of the ordinary/meaningful info in life. It helps you understand your fictional ego. This is what Leo's clips are about. Nice story @Philip. I like your story on the ego.

be your own teacher, there is a master awaiting you within yourself, unleash it, this idea of nothingness, and no self, i would drop that nonsense too, the real you is all knowing, all power, ageless, experience your core being more and more, everything you need is there. following others is a long journey to no where most often, cut your own trail, your destination is self realization, don't let other people hold you back with their ideas of what you need.

Thinking is still here but you don t identify with it. It Is just belonging to the body/mind phenomenal world. It Is not of your concern anymore. Connect with the nothingness of your being. The one wich is calling your dead thinking conceptual mind to wake-up. Let it be. Stop associating the Truth with the non-thinking or meditation.

The only difference between this moment and "nothingness" is the direct experience. What I mean by direct experience is the physical senses, with no meaning (of the neuronal paths) attached. In other words, remove what it is felt through body and what it is thought through mind. That is nothingness... and that is who you really are