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@Key Elements There's no you now. There's just an ever-changing flux of phenomena. Doesn't matter what the phenomena is from the point of view of absolute truth. Whether you're sipping a cup of coffee, floating through astral realms, visiting aliens via a DMT trip, meditating your ass off, or whatever, it's all just phenomena and none of it has any permanence. After the body dies, who the hell knows what might happen? But I would conservatively bet my money that it's the same thing as before you were born. Whatever stuff you cling to now, including your "soul" or any aspect of personality, identity, or being, will be gone. But Absolute Nothingness will remain. So it's a good idea to switch your identity to it, otherwise you're screwed.

Again Leo, you're assuming. How do you know that I have not experienced the infinite consciousness? Enlightenment experiences like these are very personal. Unless I say it...ok, here goes... I was one and a half. I saw / am the nothingness. How does this "feel?" Divine love and peace, like you described in your shroom trip when you were in the bathroom. Words can't even describe this properly. (Now comes 'coral stage.') This isn't the end of the story. Then, there was "blackness," the blackness of space. Then, a lot of sparks were all around me--tons of them--my stars. Then, I started condensing, leaving behind my stars, and was stretched out as if pulled through a blackhole. I was facing backwards when I was pulled through the blackhole. Then, I entered my body with massive, massive light. I saw it from a third person perspective. When I awoke, I was jolted up from my bed. I said, "Oh, I'm (my name) again!" Then, I went to the living room to play with my toys. That 'divine love' that you were describing on your trip didn't last long on me. If it happened naturally, it won't last long. That's why I didn't do the things that you did in your bathroom. The transition from no-self to earth realm is much better because it is done naturally. Anyway, my whole life, I just passed this off as a dream--I thought it was just a nice dream--until I met my friend. I described my "dream" to her. She decided to do a computerized Jyotish on me. She's an expert on this. Jyotish is Indian astrology based on the stars and planets. Then, one of the result was, she saw that the experience I had when I was 1 yrs old was recorded on my results. I was surprised. We didn't even call what happened to me an 'enlightenment experience.' Then Leo, I ran into your clips. You were talking about Ox's tail in one of them. Because of your info, I went to Shinzen Young's clips and I saw Riding the Ox Backwards. Yes, I was facing backwards in my experience. All this is cool and awesome, but what's the point to this whole thing? Number 1: Had I called my friend a "cult," "woo-woo," or a "religious whatever freak," she would have not been my friend and would not even bother doing Jyotish on me. It's complex. She's not just someone like you who keeps saying, "Oh, there's just the nothingness / everythingness." Why even bother to call someone weird names if you know she's a nice person? Number 2: What's the point of enlightenment experiences? Peace-cause that's what you experience at an extreme level. What to do here on earth? Align your life purpose with world peace. I can't think of a better mission / ripple effect. Number 3: This phenomenon we call "earth realm of awareness" based on nothingness/everythingness is weird enough to the mainstream. My point is, how do you know that after we die, we are not going to be some other phenomenon or dimension, even though we are aware that we are nothingness / everythingness? I'm not convinced that earth is the only dimension / phenomenon when there has been so many reports of people seeing their "dead" loved ones (including myself, I have witnessed). It's all in the branch of psychology called parapsychology. ....... Anyway, this is all great. The point is, be detached and do good in this world-world peace. Remember Leo, you made a world peace clip, Spiral Dynamics clip (Graves model ), and Radical Open-mindedness clip. Don't go against your words. Practice what you preach.

I just said in my above statement that the coral stage is still "maya" and "illusion." Psychologists put it like that for a reason. I'm not talking about no-self here. I'm talking about coral stage that's presented in the Graves model. So, no I'm not trying to conceptualize. Don't assume. I know that the map is not the territory. There are two different things I said there. I know that "there is no you," "no-ego," "no-self," "Riding the Ox Backwards," "nothingness/everythingness," etc, etc...This is talked about a lot in this forum and by you, and I couldn't agree more. That's not my point though. What if after "death," there is another "maya," "illusion," and "there is no you stage." Called stage coral in Graves model? Have you ever considered that as a possibility and as a direct experience of it? Check out parapsychology. It has to do with near death experiences and afterlives. It's your choice if you want to look into this or not. You did make a clip on Radical Open-mindedness. Why should we label something as "religion" or "cult" without checking them out with radical open-mindedness, but with a critical mind?

Role for what? They rob you of the illusion of roles or goals. There is a very large variety of direct consciousness experiences possible, whether using psychedelics or concentration practices. They range in usefulness for personal development from 0 to infinity. One psychedelic session could be more life-transforming that 10 years of therapy. Although that's not guaranteed. They go way beyond mere motivation. They can produce genuine enlightenment-like insights. For example you can become conscious that life and death are not real. Or that there is no such thing as a separate ego self. Enlightenment can be defined in various ways. A single enlightenment insight or experience is usually not enough to actually become enlightened. I tend to equate enlightenment with a permanent realization that what you are is Absolute Nothingness, and not the body, mind, or personal identity you presently believe you are. And for me enlightenment means that you no longer believe that what you really are can die, because your true nature transcends time, space, and existence.

If you go back to the beginning of "this" thread and see where it all started it doesn't look like Mathew was the first one to rub someone the wrong way here. I'm sure it was the days leading up to this event that got him banned without warning.I thought the guy might actually let a couple cats out the bag. I was excited. Now it's gonna go back to the same old nothingness. I could share a bunch of good links to some truth but I won't. I've watched 100's of videos and I finally think I got it all figured out.

@Ayla I know you have a degree in psychology and had enlightenment experiences. So, I'm just going to say this. I know you felt that peace aka 'divine love' going back into your body. If you see something other than everythingness / nothingness, that's a coral stage experience according to parapsychology. I know that perhaps someone like Leo is looking for a Riding the Ox Backwards type of experience (Shinzen Young talked about it.) where you are going back into your body facing backwards from the nothingness / everythingness. You get to see the coral stages of that experience too. You also feel that peaceful 'divine love' when you awake. All this is lovely and awesome! We get to learn a lot from this. We see clearly what is the fictional ego. However, we have to take it as a lesson and be detached from it. I know we can't keep on obsessing over this. This phase will pass and will always be remembered. What's the real lesson here? To align our life purpose with peace. Mission: to make a ripple effect toward world peace with our gifts/talents. Can you think of a better mission we can all have in common? We are all from the same consciousness after all. Beyond the coral stage is the nothingness / everythingness, no paradoxes, just 'divine love,' just no-self. We can't put a box around it like coral stage. We are all one. Btw..Shinzen Young just told the story in a metaphoric way. Maybe perhaps the story may sound too 'wooo' to most if he didn't? https://youtu.be/x8aN9O73lgg https://youtu.be/0PQonSiGkVE https://youtu.be/Ozca_5ifwQ0

I'm going to ask you a question. It's the only question you need on this journey. It's so obvious and simple, that the ego makes it into something other than it can handle. But I guarantee you, if you keep asking yourself this one question you will become free. The question is this: "Is there any happiness in chasing, or attending to objects?" Objects are everything that is not you. Anything you can perceive or conceive are objects. What is left is you. This is what these people cannot explain, because they do not know this teaching. Is there any happiness in worldly objects? Is there any happiness in subtle objects like thought, feeling, and perception? Ask yourself this during your day. Do it until it becomes obvious. Dont just say "no" there is no happiness in these things. Because just saying no will keep you dreaming. Inquire. Come to the absolute realization by your own experience that there is no fucking happiness in this fucking world, and this includes your feelings, thoughts and perceptions. That is all you need. Forget about nothingness, consciousness and being all that. As long as you can see you are not your thoughts, feelings, perceptions, experiences you will be able to see that there is a Self that is reaching out to those temporary things. The Self is you, your whole, complete, non-dual nature that needs nothing. When you seek, you suffer, when you understand that seeking causes suffering you will begin to just discard seeking objects. Objects one the most subtle level are your thoughts, feelings, perceptions. Letting go of all that is scary, but once you understand what enlightenment is, you will not want to go back to grabbing onto that shit anymore. And that shit includes your precious enlightenment experiences.

Saturday, 16/07/20 Enlightenment Work: 52 minutes of do nothing in the morning, 60 minutes of the guided (edited) neti neti meditation. As I was really trying to find the nothingness in the neti neti meditation and I failed. And later in that sitting after finishing the guided part, I realized that I want to reach Enlightenment too much, and this wanting/attachment prevents me from getting it or experiencing the nothingness. I need to let go of that and of everything else (like success and good grades in school), but that is hard. How should I do this? Life Purpose Work: I prioritized my values again and tried to figure out my new Zone of Genius, but this is hard. I don't know if the answers I am writing down at the work sheet are right... I wanted to code a little bit, but the Internet was gone. And coding without being able to search for solutions on the Internet is not so sensible. School Work: I summed up stuff for chemistry and wrote it down nicely. And I revised stochastic stuff for math and did a few exercises. I love math, but I hate probability stuff. Things I am grateful for: calling my best friend seeing how depended I am on having Internet access seeing that I am too attached Since yesterday evening our Internet and telephone connection was gone. So until this afternoon I only had Internet access on my phone and that was really slow. I had to do things where I don't need the Internet like school work or thinking about my life purpose. I also stopped procrastinating and started to edit the neti neti meditation. I wanted to do this for a long time, and finally I did it. I edited out of the audio file the stuff where Leo explains things about open-mindedness... which just annoyed me. And I added a few breaks with just silence where Leo is to fast for me.

@Leo Gura I know that I am nothingness, just conciousness and everything around me is nothingness too. So therefore I am everything that I am experiencing in this present moment because the present moment is the only thing that exists, yet time does not exist but our egos have created it. I see the value of enlightenment and its benefits, the end of suffering...but I also know I can spend my whole life pursuing enlightenment and may never achieve it. I've also been told by other people that enlightenment doesn't exist because if I am nothing so what is there to improve upon? What is there to change and make better? What is personal development?...if I am nothingness... I know these things intellectually...I just wish I could experience it on a spiritual level. I just wish I could feel this way all the time and just shut all feelings and emotions off. I know I give meaning to the things around me but life is so hard right now. It's so easy to get sucked into the negativity. This experience was the relief I needed. Earlier in the day before the meditation class my mom had a seizure and I found her laying on the couch unconscious with blood dripping from her mouth, and I had to call 911. It was one of scariest moments I have ever experienced. My dad has stage 4 colon cancer and has been suffering for the last 3 years. I broke off a relationship with a guy this week that was everything I ever wanted in a relationship (including he wanted to seek enlightenment) yet he wanted to use me for sex, without the commitment. (I love myself too much to be treated this way). And I'm trying to start my own business in the holistic field and I'm barely scraping by. When I was shut off....it just felt so great...the freedom was there...and I was grateful for what I have. Does enlightenment allow you to be in this state permanently? Despite the fact that everything in my life is the way that is ( and yes I know I perceive it that way, and I don't have to) there are benefits....I have like a huge amount of free time to meditate and seek enlightenment and my life purpose. I just want to be motivated.

I never realized how amazing vision is until I started self-inquiry. What is vision? Why does it exist? It is through vision that our brain filters perceptions of threats, beauty, food, cuteness, obstacles, etc. When I close my eyes, I no longer have this filter. For survival, I must then rely on my sense of sound and touch to filter these things for me. But what if I become deaf and blind? I can then only feel. But what if I sustain major brain or spine injury, and I no longer feel? What, then, is there to perceive? Thoughts? But even thoughts aren't reality. What if the thoughts stop? That's true nothingness. I really take my senses for granted. It starts with sight and touch. But these senses keep me from the true reality that is nothingness.

Emptiness is a Buddhist state experience. It is meant to describe a part of a process of stages of meditation absorption. It has nothing to do with the nature of life, or reality, and the lay person who is not interested in enlightenment or interested in fitting this description into its proper context need not bother thinking about such things. FWIW, there are stages beyond emptiness. Even in the Buddhist tradition. Nothingness is the Absolute "state" and is where "God" resides. But God is not just nothingness. If you had exposure to the correct information you would know that God also manifests. God manifests a vibration that projects itself outward in the form of archtypes known as the collective unconscious. You are free to live in the collective unconscious, and all that experience has to offer you. It is not "empty" it can be enjoyable. Its highest condition is "Self-Actualization" and an ok life can be made there. Further to that is Self Realization, a condition where one is free from the collective archtypes and where one is living their true nature. This is not for everyone, and not everyone will get there either. But either way, none of this manifest life is "empty". You just have a misguided perspective.

Or maybe you overestimate Shinzen Young? Happiness is what enlightenment is about. Awareness, consciousness, nothingness and all that bullshit are just technical jargon for the dry theory side of it. Enlightenment is about realizing that you don't want to escape this life anymore. It's an understanding of who you are and that the world is dependent on you, not the other way around. Dependency is for those that don't understand themselves and still believe that there is something worth chasing in life in order to complete ones self. It's all about the end of the search.

@-nbolt- As I understand, Enlightenment is realizing that you ARE awareness... (AKA being, consciousness, nothingness, presence, God)

It sounds like you and I have experienced the same. And yes, the absolute as you call it. To become non-existent. No souvenirs within experience to bring back from that one, as you know. Not a shred. For me it happens after the first stage is reached-(nothingness), than the absolute non-existence happens when I allow what little is there to dissolve completely into that nothingness. I did read that article in it's entirety. I thought it was a great.

And by the way, I've been there hundreds of times. Now every day I go there. The deep bliss of nothingness, ignoring all objects of mind, netti netti of the knower itself, and that knower, deeper and deeper experiences of nothing. There is another stage beyond what you describe, where it is the extinction of even awareness. This is called the Absolute. I'm sure I have been there, I know I am. But each time I come out of it, the ignorance is still there, and the suffering. So I know experiences dont mean anything, because the one "experiencing" is still some form of subtle ego, still some form of subtle duality. Because the experiencer has no way of recording the extinction of nirvana. We can never "experience" the Self.

@Orange I think the essence of why the first ego was created was to understand and make sense of the unexplainable field of nothingness that objective reality is constructed out of and to gain a false sense of certainty and aliveness. And to create a false idea of a self to improve itself and create certain boundaries upon what is right and wrong to serve its self agenda. And this has then let to the spreading of more ego's and since our parents have these, they program us with a very alive-feeling illusion that makes us 100% believe that we exist as people in the real world. To what? Serve us; it is not ideal to live in a society with no boundaries for the ego and to prevent this, they give us these norms that we shall live up to make us more aware of how the world works to make us survive in "the matrix" and possibly even thrive if we get really good at understanding the dynamics. Pretty crazy to think about..

@WhatAmI yes be the reality, but take note reality that you exist as NOTHINGNESS(which is not an experience), he said that dont locate yourself because it's impossible, just give up and just simply be it.

Just a little update: fear seems to want to happen, but something diffuses it. A sort of a love soup or disenchantment with it. It arises...it is recognized, it is melting into peace. Love is another label - just mind wanting to make things sweet and comfy but what is called love it simply is not there. there is no nothingness in the sense that brain wants to perceive it either **************************************************** What is there? there doesnt seem to make much sense as in There and not here I do not now how to describe it except there are thoughts trying to figure it out and feelings feeling it but none of those ARE IT they're just about it and all there is, is ABOUT it that ABOUT can be described as harmony and love but not IT it's not important anyway to find any words... just, wanted to share certain experiences tend to bring to light one aspect of IT, while others tend to bring another one.

@Piotr "technically dead" As in nothingness. "Self-actualization" is a loaded word, means something different for everyone.

I would like a video about the complete enlightenment path, because I exactly want to know things like: -You talk about ¨after enlightenment¨. Is there really, what we conventionally call a point a time, where we are enlightened or is it only a process? -How do you know exactly what stage on the path you are at, if there is stages? And what are these stages? -Some people describe that you first see that you are the nothingness that you talk about, and that you then afterwards see that everything is this nothingness, is this true? Catchy titles: 1 The enlightenment path - the full journey before and after enlightenment explained. 2 The enlightenment path - The different stages explained 3 The enlightenment path - Complete explanation of the different stages

Also, @Leo Gura I also saw for the first time "what the fuck is a tree?" That question is exactly the same question as "why is this nothingness here?" I'm looking forward to digesting all of these implications over "time"

@Leo Gura Leo, I'm starting to pierce the veil this is an excerpt from an ongoing dialogue that I've been having with a friend. Your work came right on time I'm not sure if my ontology is mixing in with what I'm about to say, but I see everything as follows: Awareness is the ultimate. It's the end-all be-all. I don't know the nature of this "awareness" other than what it absolutely has to be in my thinking, which is that it allows for everything! It is the most pure, and clear thing that could possibly exist. I don't understand the depths of its perfection, but I can get an experiential hold on the fact that it is perfectly pure. I don't understand this "nothingness" Ilona. And I know, necessarily, that it can't be known, because that would turn it into an object of consciousness, which wouldn't be it because whatever possible way I could conceive of it would arise in consciousness and necessarily not be "it". I see that no separation exists. Whatever this nothingness is, it is without limit. I was thinking today about the thought "why is this nothingness even here?" That was probably the most profound thought that I've ever had in my life. Why does this nothingness exist, that allows for all of these supposed "objects" to exist? What "law" made this nothingness exist in the first place?! Why is it here???? There's nothing left to figure out regarding what all of this is. It is perfect meaninglessness. The most sublime perfect meaninglessness that could only exist because of the games we play as humans. The beauty of this nothingness is manifested in the complete and utter spectrum of all of the possible human experiences. Once again, I haven't digested what all of this means, but that question that I had is still so wonderfully unanswered and lovely: why does the nothingness exist? Did it necessarily have to? What kind of intelligence is behind such a thing? (I don't mean to get lost in words. I'm just having fun trying to express what these implications are Wow. That's all I can say. I would love to hear your thoughts on why this nothingness is here, Ilona.

I just read the power of now and the content is so powerful and life changing! Leo, what exactly do you think of tolle's message of the Being within us and specifically our immortality as a formless consciousness? I remember you saying that we are existentially nothingness, and that everything comes from nothingness. But Tolle provides a very different perspective.

After deep contemplation, I have come to terms with the fact that honestly... Everything in reality exists as an empty field of nothingness. And that the answers to all of these questions is nothingness. Nothing is everything paradoxically. And therefore, any rational explanation for any of these questions is just more pure nothingness that gets a model created that is also nothing (but is believed to be something) that belief is also nothing. This goes fucking deep and the ego's delusions is the main thing that has been seperating me from seeing this. This is how best I can describe my own direct pursuit of answering these questions and get to truth. Still open to what you think though

@Frogfucius Nothing wrong with that if you see science only as a tool or a springboard. If it helps you to create an opening in the mind beyond all 'this" than it is good and should not be denied. We all want to experience what lies beyond this existence. And understanding what existence is with the mind through science, physics and mathematics maybe the key that opens the door to what lies beyond for some people. Here is a conceptual framework for example. Physics theory says there are 11 dimensions. This existence is said to be the 1st through 4th and directly experienced as the 3-rd+time (the 4th). The 9th being a "probability space" where everything exists in the form of raw information that has not yet been put into action (manifested). So it sits there in a neutral flux state, waiting to happen if it is chosen by cause and effect of an action within this existence. It could be seen from that view that consciousness, through body/mind could be the product of the sum total of all dimensions experiencing itself within the 3rd-D+Time through raw physical manifestation working in conjunction with awareness. Of course the false self image that believes that it is a totally separate entity loves to take credit for what it experiences and in doing so, ignores the fact that it may be something very different that is really causing all "this" to happen from outside of this dimension. Just keep in mind that all these models are no more than the conceptual framework that we place on ourselves as being separate from the whole. The limited mind experiences all this from the limited perspective of this physical plane. If it's science that helps you start to break down the confines of this 3rd-D space- time and transcend it, who knows where that could lead, so that is a start. Look at mathematics also. Everything within existence being #1 through all the others numbers into infinity. Than there is Zero. Zero contains all the other numbers, but yet it contains nothing. Only the fact that it is empty allows it to do so. Zero is Alpha Omega. Zero proceeds all numbers and it will remain untouched after all numbers are gone. So numbers represent existence. But Zero lies beyond and is changeless. What was before the "big bang" could be seen as Zero. Than what is after the big bang (existence) is where the beginning of all numbers start. Zero could be seen symbolically as nothingness, emptiness or the void that everything springs forth into manifestation from. To sum this all up. If you look deeply enough into existence itself, you will find clues that point to the source of it. Like subtle arrows pointing the way to the truth. They are all around us at all times. Many are so obvious that they are taken for granted and we don't see the deeper meaning within them. Nothing is hidden. *No concept or words are any different than any other, scientific or spiritual. The only thing that truly matters is the direct experience of what you are beyond the limited self as body/mind within existence. What gets you there is not what matters. Use concepts to your advantage than discard them all without exception. Just don't get trapped in them or they will make you their prisoner without you realizing it. Even the concept of what may lie beyond the manifest must be thrown out. I personally don't care what lies beyond "this". For now there is only this that truly exists. Something has sent us here for a reason. I have accepted both sides of the coin but I reside here for now. When the time comes and the lights go out and I stop existing, so be it. I will fully except that than. You said you are "fascinated" by all this that is happing here? Good, that is what the cosmos intended for you to do so it could discover and experience itself! Never let that die! 'You" are here for a reason.