Search the Community

I never realized how amazing vision is until I started self-inquiry. What is vision? Why does it exist? It is through vision that our brain filters perceptions of threats, beauty, food, cuteness, obstacles, etc. When I close my eyes, I no longer have this filter. For survival, I must then rely on my sense of sound and touch to filter these things for me. But what if I become deaf and blind? I can then only feel. But what if I sustain major brain or spine injury, and I no longer feel? What, then, is there to perceive? Thoughts? But even thoughts aren't reality. What if the thoughts stop? That's true nothingness. I really take my senses for granted. It starts with sight and touch. But these senses keep me from the true reality that is nothingness.

Emptiness is a Buddhist state experience. It is meant to describe a part of a process of stages of meditation absorption. It has nothing to do with the nature of life, or reality, and the lay person who is not interested in enlightenment or interested in fitting this description into its proper context need not bother thinking about such things. FWIW, there are stages beyond emptiness. Even in the Buddhist tradition. Nothingness is the Absolute "state" and is where "God" resides. But God is not just nothingness. If you had exposure to the correct information you would know that God also manifests. God manifests a vibration that projects itself outward in the form of archtypes known as the collective unconscious. You are free to live in the collective unconscious, and all that experience has to offer you. It is not "empty" it can be enjoyable. Its highest condition is "Self-Actualization" and an ok life can be made there. Further to that is Self Realization, a condition where one is free from the collective archtypes and where one is living their true nature. This is not for everyone, and not everyone will get there either. But either way, none of this manifest life is "empty". You just have a misguided perspective.

Or maybe you overestimate Shinzen Young? Happiness is what enlightenment is about. Awareness, consciousness, nothingness and all that bullshit are just technical jargon for the dry theory side of it. Enlightenment is about realizing that you don't want to escape this life anymore. It's an understanding of who you are and that the world is dependent on you, not the other way around. Dependency is for those that don't understand themselves and still believe that there is something worth chasing in life in order to complete ones self. It's all about the end of the search.

@-nbolt- As I understand, Enlightenment is realizing that you ARE awareness... (AKA being, consciousness, nothingness, presence, God)

It sounds like you and I have experienced the same. And yes, the absolute as you call it. To become non-existent. No souvenirs within experience to bring back from that one, as you know. Not a shred. For me it happens after the first stage is reached-(nothingness), than the absolute non-existence happens when I allow what little is there to dissolve completely into that nothingness. I did read that article in it's entirety. I thought it was a great.

And by the way, I've been there hundreds of times. Now every day I go there. The deep bliss of nothingness, ignoring all objects of mind, netti netti of the knower itself, and that knower, deeper and deeper experiences of nothing. There is another stage beyond what you describe, where it is the extinction of even awareness. This is called the Absolute. I'm sure I have been there, I know I am. But each time I come out of it, the ignorance is still there, and the suffering. So I know experiences dont mean anything, because the one "experiencing" is still some form of subtle ego, still some form of subtle duality. Because the experiencer has no way of recording the extinction of nirvana. We can never "experience" the Self.

@Orange I think the essence of why the first ego was created was to understand and make sense of the unexplainable field of nothingness that objective reality is constructed out of and to gain a false sense of certainty and aliveness. And to create a false idea of a self to improve itself and create certain boundaries upon what is right and wrong to serve its self agenda. And this has then let to the spreading of more ego's and since our parents have these, they program us with a very alive-feeling illusion that makes us 100% believe that we exist as people in the real world. To what? Serve us; it is not ideal to live in a society with no boundaries for the ego and to prevent this, they give us these norms that we shall live up to make us more aware of how the world works to make us survive in "the matrix" and possibly even thrive if we get really good at understanding the dynamics. Pretty crazy to think about..

@WhatAmI yes be the reality, but take note reality that you exist as NOTHINGNESS(which is not an experience), he said that dont locate yourself because it's impossible, just give up and just simply be it.

Just a little update: fear seems to want to happen, but something diffuses it. A sort of a love soup or disenchantment with it. It arises...it is recognized, it is melting into peace. Love is another label - just mind wanting to make things sweet and comfy but what is called love it simply is not there. there is no nothingness in the sense that brain wants to perceive it either **************************************************** What is there? there doesnt seem to make much sense as in There and not here I do not now how to describe it except there are thoughts trying to figure it out and feelings feeling it but none of those ARE IT they're just about it and all there is, is ABOUT it that ABOUT can be described as harmony and love but not IT it's not important anyway to find any words... just, wanted to share certain experiences tend to bring to light one aspect of IT, while others tend to bring another one.

@Piotr "technically dead" As in nothingness. "Self-actualization" is a loaded word, means something different for everyone.

I would like a video about the complete enlightenment path, because I exactly want to know things like: -You talk about ¨after enlightenment¨. Is there really, what we conventionally call a point a time, where we are enlightened or is it only a process? -How do you know exactly what stage on the path you are at, if there is stages? And what are these stages? -Some people describe that you first see that you are the nothingness that you talk about, and that you then afterwards see that everything is this nothingness, is this true? Catchy titles: 1 The enlightenment path - the full journey before and after enlightenment explained. 2 The enlightenment path - The different stages explained 3 The enlightenment path - Complete explanation of the different stages

Also, @Leo Gura I also saw for the first time "what the fuck is a tree?" That question is exactly the same question as "why is this nothingness here?" I'm looking forward to digesting all of these implications over "time"

@Leo Gura Leo, I'm starting to pierce the veil this is an excerpt from an ongoing dialogue that I've been having with a friend. Your work came right on time I'm not sure if my ontology is mixing in with what I'm about to say, but I see everything as follows: Awareness is the ultimate. It's the end-all be-all. I don't know the nature of this "awareness" other than what it absolutely has to be in my thinking, which is that it allows for everything! It is the most pure, and clear thing that could possibly exist. I don't understand the depths of its perfection, but I can get an experiential hold on the fact that it is perfectly pure. I don't understand this "nothingness" Ilona. And I know, necessarily, that it can't be known, because that would turn it into an object of consciousness, which wouldn't be it because whatever possible way I could conceive of it would arise in consciousness and necessarily not be "it". I see that no separation exists. Whatever this nothingness is, it is without limit. I was thinking today about the thought "why is this nothingness even here?" That was probably the most profound thought that I've ever had in my life. Why does this nothingness exist, that allows for all of these supposed "objects" to exist? What "law" made this nothingness exist in the first place?! Why is it here???? There's nothing left to figure out regarding what all of this is. It is perfect meaninglessness. The most sublime perfect meaninglessness that could only exist because of the games we play as humans. The beauty of this nothingness is manifested in the complete and utter spectrum of all of the possible human experiences. Once again, I haven't digested what all of this means, but that question that I had is still so wonderfully unanswered and lovely: why does the nothingness exist? Did it necessarily have to? What kind of intelligence is behind such a thing? (I don't mean to get lost in words. I'm just having fun trying to express what these implications are Wow. That's all I can say. I would love to hear your thoughts on why this nothingness is here, Ilona.

I just read the power of now and the content is so powerful and life changing! Leo, what exactly do you think of tolle's message of the Being within us and specifically our immortality as a formless consciousness? I remember you saying that we are existentially nothingness, and that everything comes from nothingness. But Tolle provides a very different perspective.

After deep contemplation, I have come to terms with the fact that honestly... Everything in reality exists as an empty field of nothingness. And that the answers to all of these questions is nothingness. Nothing is everything paradoxically. And therefore, any rational explanation for any of these questions is just more pure nothingness that gets a model created that is also nothing (but is believed to be something) that belief is also nothing. This goes fucking deep and the ego's delusions is the main thing that has been seperating me from seeing this. This is how best I can describe my own direct pursuit of answering these questions and get to truth. Still open to what you think though

@Frogfucius Nothing wrong with that if you see science only as a tool or a springboard. If it helps you to create an opening in the mind beyond all 'this" than it is good and should not be denied. We all want to experience what lies beyond this existence. And understanding what existence is with the mind through science, physics and mathematics maybe the key that opens the door to what lies beyond for some people. Here is a conceptual framework for example. Physics theory says there are 11 dimensions. This existence is said to be the 1st through 4th and directly experienced as the 3-rd+time (the 4th). The 9th being a "probability space" where everything exists in the form of raw information that has not yet been put into action (manifested). So it sits there in a neutral flux state, waiting to happen if it is chosen by cause and effect of an action within this existence. It could be seen from that view that consciousness, through body/mind could be the product of the sum total of all dimensions experiencing itself within the 3rd-D+Time through raw physical manifestation working in conjunction with awareness. Of course the false self image that believes that it is a totally separate entity loves to take credit for what it experiences and in doing so, ignores the fact that it may be something very different that is really causing all "this" to happen from outside of this dimension. Just keep in mind that all these models are no more than the conceptual framework that we place on ourselves as being separate from the whole. The limited mind experiences all this from the limited perspective of this physical plane. If it's science that helps you start to break down the confines of this 3rd-D space- time and transcend it, who knows where that could lead, so that is a start. Look at mathematics also. Everything within existence being #1 through all the others numbers into infinity. Than there is Zero. Zero contains all the other numbers, but yet it contains nothing. Only the fact that it is empty allows it to do so. Zero is Alpha Omega. Zero proceeds all numbers and it will remain untouched after all numbers are gone. So numbers represent existence. But Zero lies beyond and is changeless. What was before the "big bang" could be seen as Zero. Than what is after the big bang (existence) is where the beginning of all numbers start. Zero could be seen symbolically as nothingness, emptiness or the void that everything springs forth into manifestation from. To sum this all up. If you look deeply enough into existence itself, you will find clues that point to the source of it. Like subtle arrows pointing the way to the truth. They are all around us at all times. Many are so obvious that they are taken for granted and we don't see the deeper meaning within them. Nothing is hidden. *No concept or words are any different than any other, scientific or spiritual. The only thing that truly matters is the direct experience of what you are beyond the limited self as body/mind within existence. What gets you there is not what matters. Use concepts to your advantage than discard them all without exception. Just don't get trapped in them or they will make you their prisoner without you realizing it. Even the concept of what may lie beyond the manifest must be thrown out. I personally don't care what lies beyond "this". For now there is only this that truly exists. Something has sent us here for a reason. I have accepted both sides of the coin but I reside here for now. When the time comes and the lights go out and I stop existing, so be it. I will fully except that than. You said you are "fascinated" by all this that is happing here? Good, that is what the cosmos intended for you to do so it could discover and experience itself! Never let that die! 'You" are here for a reason.

This is currently the idea I'm trying to embrace. I can understand it intellectually, but subconsciously I'm not quite there. My ego still tried to hold on to the idea I'm a separate, unique entity. From a physics standpoint, the universe started as a single point: something so incredibly tiny (sub atomic level) and something so dense, we can't even fathom it as humans. That tiny, single point contained every bit of matter, energy, and force that is in the universe today, and then rapidly expanded with the Big Bang. Every bit of particles that make up you, me, and the entire universe were allotted to that single point, meaning we all began from the same exact point in history, we're all connected, and we continue to expand. I envision the expansion of the universe like a blooming flower, pictured here (only if this flower started from nothingness). Is the very end of a petal not part of the same organic being that the center of the flower is? It is, and just like you may see another person as physically distant from you, you're still part of the same organic being. Here are a couple of inspiring quotes that relate to this idea. “A human being is a part of the whole called by us universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feeling as something separated from the rest, a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty.” ~Albert Einstein “You are not IN the universe, you ARE the universe, an intrinsic part of it. Ultimately you are not a person, but a focal point where the universe is becoming conscious of itself. What an amazing miracle.” ~Eckhart Tolle

Those are some words I like to read from time to time in orde to get motivated towards change and enlightenment. And I wanted to share them with you. Tell me which piece of wisdom you like most? Rule 1 How we see God is a direct reflection of how we see ourselves. If God brings to mind mostly fear and blame, it means there is too much fear and blame welled inside us. If we see God as full of love and compassion, so are we. Rule 2 The path to the Truth is a labour of the heart, not of the head. Make your heart your primary guide! Not your mind. Meet, challenge and ultimately prevail over your nafs with your heart. Knowing your ego will lead you to the knowledge of God. Rule 3 You can study God through everything and everyone in the universe, because God is not confined in a mosque, synagogue or church. But if you are still in need of knowing where exactly His abode is, there is only one place to look for him: in the heart of a true lover. Rule 4 Intellect and love are made of different materials. Intellect ties people in knots and risks nothing, but love dissolves all tangles and risks everything. Intellect is always cautious and advices, ‘Beware too much ecstasy’, whereas love says, ‘Oh, never mind! Take the plunge!’ Intellect does not easily break down, whereas love can effortlessly reduce itself to rubble. But treasures are hidden among ruins. A broken heart hides treasures. Rule 5 Most of problems of the world stem from linguistic mistakes and simple misunderstanding. Don’t ever take words at face value. When you step into the zone of love, language, as we know it becomes obsolete. That which cannot be put into words can only be grasped through silence. Rule 6 Loneliness and solitude are two different things. When you are lonely, it is easy to delude yourself into believing that you are on the right path. Solitude is better for us, as it means being alone without feeling lonely. But eventually it is the best to find a person who will be your mirror. Remember only in another person’s heart can you truly see yourself and the presence of God within you. Rule 7 Whatever happens in your life, no matter how troubling things might seem, do not enter the neighbourhood of despair. Even when all doors remain closed, God will open up a new path only for you. Be thankful! It is easy to be thankful when all is well. A Sufi is thankful not only for what he has been given but also for all that he has been denied. Rule 8 Patience does not mean to passively endure. It means to look at the end of a process. What does patience mean? It means to look at the thorn and see the rose, to look at the night and see the dawn. Impatience means to be shortsighted as to not be able to see the outcome. The lovers of God never run out of patience, for they know that time is needed for the crescent moon to become full. Rule 9 East, west, south, or north makes little difference. No matter what your destination, just be sure to make every journey a journey within. If you travel within, you’ll travel the whole wide world and beyond. Rule 10 The midwife knows that when there is no pain, the way for the baby cannot be opened and the mother cannot give birth. Likewise, for a new self to be born, hardship is necessary. Just as clay needs to go through intense heat to become strong, Love can only be perfected in pain. Rule 11 The quest for love changes user. There is no seeker among those who search for love who has not matured on the way. The moment you start looking for love, you start to change within and without. Rule 12 There are more fake gurus and false teachers in this world than the number of stars in the visible universe. Don’t confuse power-driven, self-centered people with true mentors. A genuine spiritual master will not direct your attention to himself or herself and will not expect absolute obedience or utter admiration from you, but instead will help you to appreciate and admire your inner self. True mentors are as transparent as glass. They let the light of God pass through them. Rule 13 Try not to resist the changes, which come your way. Instead let life live through you. And do not worry that your life is turning upside down. How do you know that the side you are used to is better than the one to come? Rule 14 God is busy with the completion of your work, both outwardly and inwardly. He is fully occupied with you. Every human being is a work in progress that is slowly but inexorably moving toward perfection. We are each an unfinished work of art both waiting and striving to be completed. God deals with each of us separately because humanity is fine art of skilled penmanship where every single dot is equally important for the entire picture. Rule 15 It’s easy to love a perfect God, unblemished and infallible that He is. What is far more difficult is to love fellow human being with all their imperfections and defects. Remember, one can only know what one is capable of loving. There is no wisdom without love. Unless we learn to love God’s creation, we can neither truly love nor truly know God. Rule 16 Real faith is the one inside. The rest simply washes off. There is only one type of dirt that cannot be cleansed with pure water, and that is the stain of hatred and bigotry contaminating the soul. You can purify your body through abstinence and fasting, but only love will purify your heart. Rule 17 The whole universe is contained within a single human being-you. Everything that you see around, including the things that you might not be fond of and even the people you despise or abhor, is present within you in varying degrees. Therefore, do not look for Sheitan outside yourself either. The devil is not an extraordinary force that attacks from without. It is an ordinary voice within. If you set to know yourself fully, facing with honesty and hardness. Rule 18 If you want to change the ways others treat you, you should first change the way you treat yourself, fully and sincerely, there is no way you can be loved. Once you achieve that stage, however, be thankful for every thorn that others might throw at you. It is a sign that you will soon be showered in roses. Rule 19 Fret not where the road will take you. Instead concentrate on the first step. That is the hardest part and that is what you are responsible for. Once you take that step let everything do what it naturally does and the rest will follow. Don’t go with the flow. Be the flow. Rule 20 We were all created in His image, and yet we were each created different and unique. No two people are alike. No hearts beat to the same rhythm. If God had wanted everyone to be the same, He would have made it so. Therefore, disrespecting differences and imposing your thoughts on others is an amount to disrespecting God’s holy scheme. Rule 21 When a true lover of God goes into a tavern, the tavern becomes his chamber of prayer, but when a wine bibber goes into the same chamber, it becomes his tavern. In everything we do, it is our hearts that make the difference, not our outer appearance. Sufis do not judge other people on how they look or who they are. When a Sufi stares at someone, he keeps both eyes closed instead opens a third eye – the eye that sees the inner realm. Rule 22 Life is a temporary loan and this world is nothing but a sketchy imitation of Reality. Only children would mistake a toy for the real thing. And yet human beings either become infatuated with the toy or disrespectfully break it and throw it aside. In this life stay away from all kinds of extremities, for they will destroy your inner balance. Sufis do not go to extremes. A Sufi always remains mild and moderate. Rule 23 The human being has a unique place among God’s creation. “I breathed into him of My Spirit,” God says. Each and every one of us without exception is designed to be God’s delegate on earth. Ask yourself, just how often do you behave like a delegate, if you ever do so? Remember, it fells upon each of us to discover the divine spirit inside and live by it. Rule 24 Hell is in the here and now. So is heaven. Quit worrying about hell or dreaming about heaven, as they are both present inside this very moment. Every time we fall in love, we ascend to heaven. Every time we hate, envy or fight someone we tumble straight into the fires of hell. Rule 25 Each and every reader comprehends the Holy Qur’an on a different level of tandem with the depth of his understanding. There are four levels of insight. The first level is the outer meaning and it is the one that the majority of the people are content with. Next is the Batin – the inner level. Third, there is the inner of the inner. And the fourth level is so deep it cannot be put into words and is therefore bound to remain indescribable. Rule 26 The universe is one being. Everything and everyone is interconnected through an invisible web of stories. Whether we are aware of it or not, we are all in a silent conversation. Do no harm. Practice compassion. And do not gossip behind anyone’s back – not even a seemingly innocent remark! The words that come out of our mouths do not vanish but are perpetually stored in infinite space and they will come back to us in due time. One man’s pain will hurt us all. One man’s joy will make everyone smile. Rule 27 Whatever you speak, good or evil, will somehow come back to you. Therefore, if there is someone who harbours ill thoughts about you, saying similarly bad things about him will only make matters worse. You will be locked in a vicious circle of malevolent energy. Instead for forty days and nights say and think nice things about that person. Everything will be different at the end of 40 days, because you will be different inside. Rule 28 The past is an interpretation. The future is on illusion. The world does not more through time as if it were a straight line, proceeding from the past to the future. Instead time moves through and within us, in endless spirals. Eternity does not mean infinite time, but simply timelessness. If you want to experience eternal illumination, put the past and the future out of your mind and remain within the present moment. Rule 29 Destiny doesn’t mean that your life has been strictly predetermined. Therefore, to live everything to the fate and to not actively contribute to the music of the universe is a sign of sheer ignorance. The music of the universe is all pervading and it is composed on 40 different levels. Your destiny is the level where you play your tune. You might not change your instrument but how well to play is entirely in your hands. Rule 30 The true Sufi is such that even when he is unjustly accused, attacked and condemned from all sides, he patiently endures, uttering not a sing bad word about any of his critics. A Sufi never apportions blame. How can there be opponents or rivals or even “others” when there is no “self” in the first place? How can there be anyone to blame when there is only One? Rule 31 If you want to strengthen your faith, you will need to soften inside. For your faith to be rock solid, your heart needs to be as soft as a feather. Through an illness, accident, loss or fright, one way or another, we are all faced with incidents that teach us how to become less selfish and judgmental and more compassionate and generous. Yet some of us learn the lesson and manage to become milder, while some others end up becoming even harsher than before… Rule 32 Nothing should stand between you and God. No imams, priests, rabbits or any other custodians of moral or religious leadership. Not spiritual masters and not even your faith. Believe in your values and your rules, but never lord them over others. If you keep breaking other people’s hearts, whatever religious duty you perform is no good. Stay away from all sorts of idolatry, for they will blur your vision. Let God and only God be your guide. Learn the Truth, my friend, but be careful not to make a fetish out of your truths. Rule 33 While everyone in this world strives to get somewhere and become someone, only to leave it all behind after death, you aim for the supreme stage of nothingness. Live this life as light and empty as the number zero. We are no different from a pot. It is not the decorations outside but the emptiness inside that holds us straight. Just like that, it is not what we aspire to achieve but the consciousness of nothingness that keeps us going. Rule 34 Submission does not mean being weak or passive. It leads to neither fatalism nor capitulation. Just the opposite. True power resides in submission a power that comes within. Those who submit to the divine essence of life will live in unperturbed tranquillity and peace even the whole wide world goes through turbulence after turbulence. Rule 35 In this world, it is not similarities or regularities that take us a step forward, but blunt opposites. And all the opposites in the universe are present within each and every one of us. Therefore the believer needs to meet the unbeliever residing within. And the nonbeliever should get to know the silent faithful in him. Until the day one reaches the stage of Insane-I Kamil, the perfect human being, faith is a gradual process and one that necessitates its seeming opposite: disbelief. Rule 36 This world is erected upon the principle of reciprocity. Neither a drop of kindness nor a speck of evil will remain unreciprocated. For not the plots, deceptions, or tricks of other people. If somebody is setting a trap, remember, so is God. He is the biggest plotter. Not even a leaf stirs outside God’s knowledge. Simply and fully believe in that. Whatever God does, He does it beautifully. Rule 37 God is a meticulous dock maker. So precise is His order that everything on earth happens in its own time. Neither a minute late nor a minute early. And for everyone without exception, the clock works accurately. For each there is a time to love and a time to die. Rule 38 It is never too late to ask yourself, “Am I ready to change the life I am living? Am I ready to change within?” Even if a single day in your life is the same as the day before, it surely is a pity. At every moment and with each new breath, one should be renewed and renewed again. There is only one-way to be born into a new life: to die before death. Rule 39 While the part change, the whole always remains the same. For every thief who departs this world, a new one is born. And every descent person who passes away is replaced by a new one. In this way not only does nothing remain the same but also nothing ever really changes. For every Sufi who dies, another is born somewhere. Rule 40 A life without love is of no account. Don’t ask yourself what kind of love you should seek, spiritual or material, divine or mundane, Eastern or Western. Divisions only lead to more divisions. Love has no labels, no definitions. It is what it is, pure and simple. Love is the water of life. And a lover is a soul of fire! The universe turns differently when fire loves water.

@Nexeternity I understand I'm not my "thinking" or conceptualizing mind as I stated earlier. Not all the time anyway. I know I can't "think my way to enlightenment". Even the thought of what enlightenment is automatically turns it into an illusion or concept of mind. That would be trying to bring enlightenment down to this lowly level of the" known". That's not going to happen any time soon. "If it can be spoken of, that ain't it", as the old saying go's. On rare occasions I have experience what I am as pure empty awareness, no self, no likes, no dislikes, no love, no hate, no emotions. no attachment, no knowing of any kind what so ever. True bliss and liberation from the egoic mind. There was nothing for the ego to cling to, good, bad or indifferent. But that was just tastes and not a permanent state. This is where my original question lies. Leo reminded of something in a statement he made in another post very recently. I think it points to the answers I seek. There is absolute nothingness, the "infinite singularity" that is pure, empty awareness. Maybe I could say, at best I have witnessed that from a distance. But if i became that, that would cause the final shards of self to utterly burn to ash and all remnants of self would than vanish without a trace. Total and final liberation from self. I did feel that when the experiences happened. But it's always fleeting within time. So here is where I'm at now to sum it all up. I must become that and not just experience it. I can see the difference in that now! Thanks brother, all of this really helped piece everything together for me in all different ways! This should all come together nicely at some point. Maybe I can get myself off this see-saw ride to enlightenment once and for all by not just focusing on awareness but to utterly become it in every way. * I wrote this the other day and forget never hit the send button. Well here it is now. I just read your latest statement above. Don't worry about it. Yea there is always plenty of work to be done. I been at it on and off for 30 yrs. and there is still plenty to be done! It's a life long journey. I 'm thinking lately I should maybe put a little boost into my experience. Something that may kick it up a notch. Maybe experiment a little.

@Philip This is pure stupidity what you're trying to pursue. Even if you do get what you're after with this mind-to-computer unification business, it will still pale in comparison to getting the realizations you can have about reality by pursuing consciousness work. The realizations you can have from it are so mind-blowing that it will make you question just what on Earth you're trying to pursue in life. The core problem with what you're advocating is that it's solely based on ego desire. Question those! Question your ego's DESIRES and question your EGO! QUESTION YOURSELF! Because if you don't, you basically have no chance in grasping, let alone seeing the significance of the following insights: In reality, there is only one being. There are no other people, there are no trees, there is no sky, there is no you, just one being that has existed for eternity. It is impossible for awareness to not be present. Your life has been lived an infinite amount of times and you have lived everyone else's lives an infinite amount of times and will continue to do so for eternity. Existential nothingness is synonymous with existential infinity. So many others that I haven't discovered yet. These are not just petty beliefs, if you can just have true comprehension of what these words mean then this whole discussion would become pointless to you. Heck, even I haven't even truly grasped anything that I'm saying. I'm barely a year into my enlightenment journey. Right now, all I have is intellectualizing and beliefs that I've gathered from different spirituality sources. Why am I confident enough to speak as if what I'm saying is truth? Because I've taken it seriously enough in the past months to at least have glimpses and "clicks" in my mind that reveal secrets to existence that have pretty much shattered the normal way "I" Iook at the reality. Another problem here is that you're underestimating how deep enlightenment is and you don't really recognize how the simplest truths don't necessarily take simple methods to grasp. For example, when I first discovered my true existential self one night (see my actualization journal), I found the realization to be so STUPIDLY SIMPLE that I couldn't help but laugh at the fact that it took me MONTHS of meditation to discover. How much more for all the other realizations that I'm trying to aim for? If I'm not taking this work as seriously as I am now, it would take me decades before I get to see the really deep stuff or possibly not even at all? How much more for you, though? You're chasing something completely freaking petty by comparison. The problem is that I can't explain to you in words just how petty and meaningless it is. You would have to have a complete mind-shift to be able to see it. You may retort that science and technology would make it far easier to reach these kind of insights but personally, I just don't trust that scientists, who themselves do not really grasp spirituality yet, would create breakthrough technology that would help people become enlightened, at least not at its current state, that's just my personal belief. I recognize that I have extreme ignorance when it comes to science because I don't bother to follow this stuff but I'm going with Leo when he says that science is still lagging far behind.

Study nonduality and study Islam. Have an enlightenment experience or two. It's obvious. The Sufi's have a great description of Enlightenment/Nothingness: fana al fana (the passing away of the passing away.) In the case of the Bible, it was written by followers who were clearly never enlightenment. Jesus did not write the Bible. The Bible is also contaminated by many political agendas. But even so, you can still find many references to enlightenment in the Bible if you understand what enlightenment is. Spiritual books are not written for modern scientific materialist rationalist minds. Your rationalist mindset is in many ways a modern disease. Modern humans have lost the ability to interpret symbols and metaphors, which is what all spiritual teachings are. They are not meant to be scientific because you CANNOT scientifically model Truth or God or any other deep spiritual insights. Be careful about imposing your own modern-era mindsets and biases onto cultures and peoples of 2000 years ago. They were in many ways far more advanced that we are. They were much more open to direct consciousness, whereas our heads are filled with "scientific" beliefs and models, none of which are absolutely true, and leave the mind closed to direct consciousness. Just because YOU want the Bible to say, "THIS IS ENLIGHTENMENT" doesn't mean it should. If a painting of Jesus with a halo around his head isn't glaringly obvious to you, then you really have a lot of research to do. The laws are actually not cruel but merciful, relative to the time of human history we are talking about. In those days, you could get you head chopped off on a whim. Religion actually established humane rules by which to structure civilization. Of course, in 2016, some of those laws look outdated.

it is empty nothing or just simply nothing,? the impossibility to have the notion of Nothingness, I think it's important to not get lost with more Ideas.

@LadyfaceLou Well, there is no self controlling thoughts so you have 0 control over what thoughts appear. They simply show up out of nothingness and return to it. But you can become aware of thoughts and learn to observe to realize their illusory nature. They will then no longer be a problem to you. And getting to this point takes serious work. So you have to work to get there. I reccomend that you do daily meditation for 20 minutes every day or more if you desperately want to not get affected by these thoughts and take away their power; learn to love the process... Give meditation time to take effect and do it for the rest of your life...

Arguments don't mean anything at all when it comes to understanding consciousness. Really take consciousness work very seriously and do that for several months and you really understand just how meaningless it is to try to explain something as deep as consciousness and existence with words/models. What you really need is deep understanding. And you can't have deep understanding of truth without doing the raw practical work required. Even an enlightenment newbie will know that one. Uploading our consciousness into a system that would make us immortal is a complete joke! Complete delusion. It only takes a few months of exploring your own consciousness to know that it's complete bunk. As if consciousness is an actual physical phenomenon that is present in some sort of physical material world. As if consciousness is somehow located inside the skull of a human being that can be transferred into a different vessel. That's not the case at all. The only real problem here is that we're living in an age where the majority does not understand existence, consciousness, nothingness, truth etc. If you think that this A.I. utopia crap actually matters, you're way off.

@Samuel Garcia You will NEVER understand it with the mind. NEVER! It's utterly speechless. It's beyond anything you can imagine. Imagine actual aliens showed up at your house tonight, abducted you, and flew you to another galaxy. Well... that's peanuts compared to what we're talking about here. Aliens would seem normal by comparison. At least you can imagine aliens. Stop listening to scholars. They have no clue what reality is. A million scholars working for a million years would still not know. That's how radical this stuff is. I don't know how enlightened Muhammad was. My guess is, he had some deep mystical experiences but not full proper enlightenment. Which would explain the Quran. The universe is an idea in your mind. There is no such thing. The ultimate conscious being is Nothingness. Something can ONLY come out of Nothing. Nothing is NOT an experience. It's Nothing!