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pure nothingness, pure awareness or pure being is what you are, the rest is just an idea..

@Jack River exactly right. Closing your eyes feels like a less authentic and fluid way to become stilled. I actually find staring into nothingness with eyes open distracts me less than with eyes closed.

3a.so where am i on the path? i'm pretty lost, i understand i haven't fully surrendered to the emptiness/ nothingness. 3b. have i atleast caught glimpsed the whole ox or glimpsed a full enlightenment is what i would like to ask, but my opinion is there's no telling from another individuals prespective what i have experienced in my direct experience, you can only guide to what sounds right and what doesn't, because then theres no next steps but to embody it consciously to a mastery level, if i had to put it into an anology, i'm trying to create an imaginary ledge to stand on, on the mountain of nothing, because i'm lost in absolutely nothing. even the word enlightenment is not real, because it's pointing to this absolute nothingness which is not what my conceptual ideas of enlightenment were. but its very relieving and peaceful to know that its all an illusion, (well i say illusion, but its not even that, it's just nothing) 6. thank you 7. thank you

@Cortex yes, you are. You are nothingness (no-self). Then, you transform into everythingness. From there you transform back into your ego. While this is taking place, you are at peace--no suffering at all. You're completely detached from what is occurring. You're complete and free (even while making such a transformation). When you go back to your physical ego and this physical world, you'll think that this experience is absolutely amazing! Oh wow! It's so massive being that infinite black hole and collapsing into myself! Because you felt a love (bliss) when you became embodied again--which indicate that you're in the to love realm--earth. However, even though it's amazing to the ego, it's really nothing. Later, if you look carefully, life itself (you) operates on the "principles" of an awakening. Yes, sometimes life may seem hard. You have to struggle to work. Some ppl really are in a "horrible" situation. But, "horrible" is an illusion and it's temporary. This is just a scarcity mindset. There is no distance between you and success. Your awakening points out that distance is an illusuion. Everything is temporary. There are always ways to learn to get out of it and go with the flow of life. Transformations in life are flows. Flow into love. You did that in your awakening. Learn to love yourself first and eventually others. Teach them how to live and love. When you mastered this, you become "enlightened." Beautiful life lessons from the deepest awakening that can be applied to living life to the fullest: Easier said than done. Sometimes we have to unlearn many things.

I first tried 5-meo-dmt a year ago and had a classic "white out" experience. At the time, before I knew much about the substance, I thought this was just a normal occurrence, my conception being that if I was having a true experience of no-self, then there would be no self to remember the experience. I later became aware that this is not indeed the case, that many folks do in fact have fully non-dual, unitive experiences with God consciousness (or however you choose to language it) and remember quite well despite the individual self being absent. So, this time around, a month ago: Set + Setting: a ceremonial, group ritual with an experienced facilitator in a comfortable "temple" environment Dosage: started with 13 mg synthetic, vaporized. I held in as long as possible, laid back, exhaled, and as soon as everything in my visual field started to fractalize... BLACK OUT I came to, what felt like just a few moments later (not sure how long it actually was), feeling like things were a bit squiggly but had the sensation that I had missed the main event. I told the facilitator, who knew about my previous white out experience, "The same thing happened. Except this time it was black not white. I just wasn't there." He replied, "Right.... you weren't there because there is no you to be there." A little exasperated, I struggled to communicate something to the effect of, "No no, this wasn't a unitive experience of no-self, I just literally wasn't conscious." I was encouraged by him and the group to take more. So I did another 10 mg. Same exact thing happened. So he dosed me again, this time up to 12. (The idea being -- if you're still cogent and so little time has passed, you haven't broken through. Do more. Go deeper. But the medicine has accumulative effects apparently so that's why he wasn't jumping me to a 20mg dose, say). SAME DAMN THING HAPPENED. Black out. Nothing. At this point, I'm feeling quite frustrated, as well as deeply saddened that this experience of merging with allness infinity -- which I had seen several of the folks in our group go through by the time it was my turn -- just didn't seem available to me. I started crying, saying, "I'm just not there, I'm just not there," feeling again this sensation that something had happened but that I just wasn't there to witness it. Someone in the group then coyly remarked, "But that's the cosmic joke!" That, funny enough, triggered a dramatic shift in consciousness for me. Suddenly I was swimming in a dark, watery void of nothingness. There was still a very vague sense of a "me" experiencing "this," and every time this thin layer of "me" tried to reach for some stability, point of reference, or grounding, it just collapsed into the endless churning sea of arising and falling. I have a vague memory of laughing, feeling free from all the anxiety and pain that lives within the construct of my self, and I think I started to physically "swim" on the bed I was in, relishing the silky undulations of nothingness. As the stuff started to wear off, my typical sense of existential grief started to return. I "looked" at it (inwardly, not visually) and it appeared to me (experientially, not visually) as multi-dimensional and endlessly deep. Infinite. The grief is infinite. I said out loud, "there's just so much pain. There's infinite pain." The facilitator responded. "Yes, there is infinite pain. And there is therefore is infinite compassion." #buddhismpsychedlia And again, there was (and still continues to be) a sadness that I didn't experience non-dual consciousness. I'm wondering if anyone has any insights as to what's going on here. Why the black outs? Why no access to a full unitive/non-dual state? I'm sure not every brain's neurology responds to any given substance the same way, so is this just a sign that this particular molecule works within me in a more atypical way? Maybe it's just "not the right medicine" for me? Or perhaps I'm just super sensitive, and in order for my awareness to stay present and not give way under the weight of such intensity, I need a smaller dose? I'm curious about trying, say, 8 mg, and seeing what happens. Maybe I wouldn't black/white out. Or perhaps a different intake method could be useful -- plugging, for instance -- would that effect how the stuff works on/in me? The insight into emptiness has certainly left a mark on my perception and meditation practice, for which I am grateful. But I can't help but still feel that nagging urge to continue chasing the dragon, as it felt so incomplete... Any insights would be gratefully appreciated !

@CreamCat @Sahil Pandit Just a thought for ya’s, also illusory, but, thought is dualistic seeing one side or the other, which always reveals you are the one, aware of the two-ness. Also, odd reminder perhaps but, pupils are nothingness, you. Notice the eyes you see are twos, but as you see, it is one, and all are emptiness.

Yes, it is one and the same. During an awakening, you'll actually see yourself as the entire universe (aka, no-self, nothingness, infinity, whatever you call it) going back into your "small, little" ego. If you include such a description in your LP, be tactful in how you say it. That's all I'm saying.

Pursuing this will only set you up to fall. You do not need a relationship. It is impossible to form a relationship that is not based on an illusion. If you want to live within an illusion, press ahead. Otherwise forget it, and surrender to the infinite beauty and bliss of the nothingness of now.

@cetus56 I never said I live off bread and water. I said it can be done. There is no need to desire foods the egoic mind would consider to be more 'pleasant' than others. I think you have a lot of growing to do, Cetus. I don't want to hijack this thread. The Truth remains, you must submit to the bliss within the nothingness of Being. Anything else is an illusion.

You are not submitting to the bliss of nothingness. While you still have thoughts, you are not Being.

There's no such thing as depression. It is a concept in your egoic sense of self. Submit to the nothingness. What is wrong with just Being? No wants, no desires, no feelings. Just Be. You are wanting something that is an illusion. Stop the wanting.

While you do not submit to nothingness, you are chasing an illusion. Socialising is an illusion that leads to suffering. Just Be.

Is it illusory bliss and amazement of nothingness?

Enjoy. A Loaf holds many grains of corn And many myriad drops the Sea: So is God's Oneness Multitude And that great Multitude are we. The All proceedeth from the One, And into One must All regress: If otherwise, the All remains Asunder-riven manyness. God is an utter Nothingness, Beyond the touch of Time and Place: The more thou graspest after Him, The more he fleeth thy embrace.

Yeah, in a sense I think so. When you surrender to being you do also discover what the lens of No Ego points to. But that's a very specific case. In most cases Meditation and Self-Inquiry function very differently. I still Meditate but I don't really do Self-Inquiry anymore. Self-Inquiry became moot for me a while ago. When you discover "being nothingness" you don't really need to cling to the question 'what am I?' anymore. And also 'what am I?' is an unnecessarily Egoic question because it's designed to point an Ego to No Ego. You don't ask 'what am I?' after discovering being. It's the Ego seeker that asks 'what am I?'

This is a great question. Kudos for thinking of it. Being is not a knowing or a doing. No Ego, or as Adyashanti approximates it as "resting as Awareness", is a being. Being is a surrender to nothingness. This is No Ego which you might discover when you meditate.

@Jack River Thanks for the input, I appreciate it. I’m probably jumping ahead, but I think this goes into desire, want vs need, objective vs subjective, and even infinite intelligence vs self/brain desires, and if I’m not mistaken we don’t see that the same. I’m not assuming, so correct me if I’m wrong, but you’ve expressed desire is of the ego, or (small s) self. But a decent case could be made that when desires of the self are met, experienced, known, and then naturally transcended, a foundation within is built, which enables one to fulfill desire of deeper unification through helping others. So a small decision, and wether it is understood / accepted / viewed as a want or need, is a piece of a bigger thing. And perhaps the fashion in which one goes about helping others is impacted by the desire path, or the nondesire path. I think this is also true for many occasions of sacrifice of one’s self desires, on a path of discovery of the greater desire. In the same sense, in the biggest picture, I would say Nothingness is without desire, so desire must be of the individual. But at the same time, a case could be made that nothingness has desire, because it is you and I, doing whatever we’re doing. So perhaps a notion of unconditional desire arises...? (Sorry, I believe I strayed quite a bit from the original convo. Not to mention, hacked yet another thread.) ? @EvilAngel (sorry)

what if emptiness - empty of fullness, absolute emptiness - empty of the word emptiness, making it totally empty of anything , as in does not exsist nothingness- nothing if something absolute nothingness- did not exsist in the first place, was not even there, but is there as something. void - an area with nothing inside except itself absolute void - does not exsist inside void doesn't exsist - exsistance from non exsistance absolute non exsistance - does not exsist at all none of these words can actual encapsulate what it means to be itself non exsistance because of their counter parts, what if what was actual was that: none of it exist, i don't mean one second was there and next minute does not, i mean the most rawest nihilistic way that you can put non exsistance, without the use of time, space, location, form, colour, isness , wasness, thereness, sexyness, literally without anythingness. see i don't mean draw a concept in your minds eye about what it is because its simple the very thing doesn't exsist. lets do practical in actuality pick up a can of your favourite drink (can even be water) , look at it as if it doesn't exsist in front of your vision right now trick: you have to image yourself that you don't exsist aswell so the perceiver subject/ object vanishes but this is not the point lol... everything comes form the thing that does not exsist at all (nothingness) but you can't imagine nothingness its always dualistic so what is non exsistance - the being in everything the emptiness itself! that emptiness creates form so i mean lol the very thing you hear. see , smell , everything literally is just the formless as the buddist say emptiness is form and form is emptiness btw i'm not actually contemplating, i'm just sharing my results lol!

I say this with my very isness, with my very I am, with my very existence and being: I am God and there is none existent but I. The only Truth and Reality is My Being/Existence. I am the creator, the created, the manifested, infinity, void, nothingness, devil, ego, universe, consciousness, awareness, existence, being - I am all of that. I Alone am. You think your life matters? You think you matter? You think your psychedelic experiences matters? What does it matter if you don't know yourself? Nothing. Take this however you want. The clock is ticking.

Get a glimpse of nonduality, suddenly we think we are enlightened, or think we know the truth, but in reality we dont, we just have egoic impressions of it, ultimately no one really knows, they only know the path, they may use perceptual concepts of allness, or nothingness, but ultimately if you "experience nonduality" you are lying to yourself in my opinion. the buddha also mentioned that all these are still perceptual realities from our egos, no matter how mystical or "nonexistent" your experience may be, until your actual system is cleared of its fear mechanisms which build the ego, and the concepts that comfort or should i say numb your issues which you are not reflecting, until your system is cleared of mechanisms which make your experience dual, you arent in enlightenment at all, you just got an energetic opening/glimpse. . look at any dude here who uses realizations as egoic masturbation, anyone who dealt with self esteem issues and such can see through the wowness and power trip of these types of experiences and this can be subtle perceptions in the subconcious aswell. because the people who grew out of it they know it ultimately stems from insecurities not yet dealt with, just being real. but as you go through more of life, you get triggered of your issues, and you grow, you shed, and you let go, and each egoic paradigm thats broken down, more and more depth of reality is realized, because you're going through a process of reflection and understanding, being more and more inclusive (love, word can have baggage though) and open to reality, yet also unclinged and indifferent, not numbed. my point being, forget about nondual experiences, use the experiences as guides for your path, but even that attachment to those guides will be dropped too at a certain point. Leo is fully right when he says that this is a process, no doubt about it.

@Charlotte if I may say something here... Goes in this pattern...no-self (nothingness) --> everythingness --> transformation (Shinzen Young called this part: Riding the Ox Backwards) --> love (realm) --> ego When it comes, you'll know. Until then, I would just continue working on something worthwhile to give to this world, such as a deep life purpose. Everything is interconnected and counts. Anything worth doing is like a meditation.

@DarjeelingTea This topic keeps coming up here from time to time. It's a good topic, btw, and a very hard one to answer. Thanks for bringing it up. Remember this quote because it does cause radical open-mindedness: Two things to consider because it's been discussed many times and on Leo's videos. #1. 5meo can cause the experience of the no-self (nothingness) if done properly. This is the first argument. Work with mushrooms and other lighter psychedelics and work your way up to stronger doses before experimenting with 5meo. #2. Those who have not been the no-self (nothingness) will not understand what's it like to become the no-self without the psychedelics.

There is one thing I noticed with actualized.org, more specifically, how people interpret this content. I wouldn't call it a trap, but it misleads some people. It especially applies to younger folks, and I've certainly fallen into that myself. People hear Leo talking about Spirituality, Enlightenment, Nothingness and the Void almost every week. It paints a very sharp image and creates a powerful vision for aspiring actualizers. It really makes you get on board with all this cool Spiritual stuff and forget about everything else. You have ideas and fantasies of increasing consciousness, being Enlightened, becoming a Spiritual teacher, a life coach etc. Everything else in your life fades to the background. All you do is talk, read and discuss spirituality. This stuff is great. But we have to understand that Leo is coming at it from a different position than some of us. He started dabbling with spirituality when he already built his life and developed himself top of the pyramid. We can't just leapfrog financial success, relationships, self-esteem, work ethic, education and most importantly life purpose. In an extreme case, you can become a monk and renounce typical way of life. Yet for most people, the lower level needs have to be satisfied first. I'm not saying stop doing spiritual practices until you are 30-35. Yoga, meditation, and psychedelics can and should be used throughout life. I'm saying to not be obsessed over Enlightenment work and go out there to practically achieve something. Image how deep your spiritual pursuits can be, when your psyche is matured, your health is excellent, you have an abundance of wealth and all your desires and needs are met. It makes a world of a difference. I would even argue that it is almost impossible to achieve higher states of consciousness, without first putting the work into mastering traditional personal development (monks might be an exception). The strive for spiritual ideals early on can leave us bitter. You hear and experience all these cool states, but when you come back, your life is still crappy. This doesn't apply to everyone of course.

@Preetom yeah but i can't seem to maintain the presence of void, pure awareness, nothingness @Nahm it really is amazing at having one reference point, one moment where it reveals itself to you and your like i have it, and i want it again, how do i get this. its definately because it reveals itself to you, in my opinion. gotta keep trying until you get a breakthrough @Joseph Maynor you in this context is third person referring to me, or us or we, all of us. ahh man when i tried to meditate again. that question completely blocked my path, as if it were stopping me from the thing revealing itself to me because i'm trying to conceptualise this is what it is and this is what it isn''t, instead of just it being what it is completely

Yeah..maybe memory is coming in and thingifyjng that nothingness. I found that as these “intervals” extended for longer and longer it was because there was less still subtle registration taking place. This also relates to the absence of spatial awareness.