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Because believing in something is essentially useless. You don't believe in God, you become aware of God, and then we tend to create a model and belief around the direct experience. Belief just isn't convincing enough because there's no basis to it, like direct experience. Is it really though? If I stare closely at my experience, there's nothing material about it to me. The "materials" are occurring in "nothingness"

@PreetomUpon non duality, the realisation of and abiding in “nothingness”. Due to the nature of my experience itself and the path that led me to that experience. My teachers, advaita Vedanta and etc. I realized something. Something that was thought of and expressed in a contradictory fashion. “I am eternal and everything” & “I do not exist”. I thought nothing of this contradiction. My experience seemed unquestionable. More real than anything I had ever experienced. Time passed. I got and completed my kundalini process, got involved with esoteric vajrayana practices (that I would highly advise against), and proceeded to realise the massive difference in depth between teachings and teachers due to the immense change in the nature of my non dual experience. Some teachers and most people not in non duality describe this immense change in depth and experience as a “deepening”. I can only assume those that say that haven’t been through what I have been through. It is much more. Much much more. In each state, each level of depth, different conclusions and beliefs, and ideaologies were formed. Different interpretations of my experience. Of reality. Of everything. The Buddha went through this as well. He realized nothingness. That was the first step in his journey. This realisation wasn’t a glimpse. The full thing, but he was through it. As he saw through everything that came after. It wasn’t until full enlightenment that he gave up the ever so convincing eternal self up as another delusion. A misinterpretation of the truth of Anatta. *sadhguru tone* Anatta means... there is no unchanging thing that can be called a self. This does not merely apply to a human being. It applies to those who say they are the eternal self as well. Such people simply misinterpret and filter the truth of non self through their contracted system and come to a contracted conclusion. Far from true enlightenment all of them. Anatta also denies the reality of a soul, an individual essence, unlike less nuanced traditions, however it does not deny the reality of seperation, if you live as a separated self. That is your reality. This is just obvious. Denying it is foolish. Your separated self, however, is just a part of a process. Not an unchanging thing. That is the problem with some non dual teachings as well. They trade the unchanging seperate self for an unchanging “witness self”. Nothing is unchanging within this world. Including any sort of self. Which can become just another thing the seperate self that thinks it’s moved beyond tells itself. Just to clarify and to elaborate : Most that experience non duality, are still individuals experiencing non duality. Non duality is filtered through their karmic conditionings, and produces a state that is very convincing, but is ultimately another delusion. As a result their conclusions are half baked, their teachings one dimensional. Only those that completely move beyond the limitations of the karmic body, and it’s filters see the truth of Anatta.

There are ongoing blips of enlightenment in the slow and fitfull awakening process. It can trigger ego backlash. Good news Bad news. It happens to everyone repeatedly, eventually. We experience perspectives of enlightenment all the time but until integration of knowledge and Being create continuity, we remain susceptible to a unique amnesia that divides the personality against itself. The personal essence or Pearl beyond Price is discovery of Being and its continuity and the nothingness of personality. A continual return to Ordinary Idiot is a part of the method. The horizontal pendulum path and the vertical ladder occur simultaneously after a time Motion in Path of knowledge is on horizontal Pendulum plane of personality Ordinary Idiot Super Idiot Arch Idiot Hopeless Idiot Campassionate Idiot Squirming Idiot Square Idiot Round Idiot Zigzag Idiot Motion on Ladder of Being is in vertical dimensions resulting in yo yo of Being Enlightened Idiot Doubting Idiot Swaggering Idiot Born Idiot Patented Idiot Genial Idiot Polyhedral Idiot Master Idiot Perfect Idiot (Fully Realized Idiot) Holy Idiot Cosmic Idiot Unique Idiot - God All of this is true, if you're a striving Idiot. If you're not, it's not. The ups and downs of life are observed on the yo yo. The ups and downs of life are identified with on the pendulum.

I need time to write up my deepest insight, take it as motivation to any one who wants to go higher and i'll explain the method to do!! from there its up to you. I'll explain as much as i can and you'll see why it'll be my deepest insight. This is only for people that have reached infinite something/ nothingness , in other words, those who consider they have found truth. It is the last thing i wanted to contemplate and i can't go further because i see now that i only took this journey to see what was the best solution for others (my life purpose) the post will be called "why there is way more to go" give me like 2 hour ish.

@Key Elements on third thought, i understand what your saying now. The truth is the truth regardless of what way its dissected and life purpose is created. Theres only one direction to go to find the infinite. My answer is yes, i've been contemplating but only individuals who self meditate and adhere to strict routines of consciousness can go higher all together. It's like the purification process is still going forward to the highest human being consciousnesses. Only the person who travels that far can build the foundation at that level. The continuation of finding a deeper what is nothingness and self -inquiring. this is the path the independant buddahs choose for themselves, to let go completely to infinity. There are subsequently millions of consciousness levels higher than the one i'm at. But me personally, i only came this far through self-experiment to find the truth and learn how to guide other people in the correct way. this is personal development/ life coaching i realise now. thats why i want to set up schools personally. I understand the difference it's what i've been contemplating for the last couple of days i finally see it. So good luck on your journey's my old friends, theres still along ALONG way to guide people to infinity, but embodyment still needs to be done.

@winterknight once there is realisation of non-doership or no control or state of nothingness - mind immediately gets afraid and steps back into dream-fog and 'returns control' to itself. there is no one in no-control state. but once there is no control and no one there - mind interprets it as no control and as no one and steps back into dream and its never ending circle what to do? how to stay in state of no-control?

The idea is not to make a virtue out of emptiness. That would be just mere philosophy, and it's called nihilism. The emptiness that is attributed to the Self does not fully represent the truth of the matter. This idea predominantly comes from Nagarjuna's Doctorine of the Void, but somehow has been misinterpreted by many people to mean nothingness, or emptiness. It's more a recognition of the fact that awareness cannot know itself as an object. The void is supposed to teach us that no matter how much we try to ascribe meaning to reality, it will not be true. But you already know this yourself.

I was thinking about this topic yesterday, since you bought it up. What if you could define bodhisattva as nothingness and buddahhood as your laughing joyful state. I have began questioning whether the term "the buddah went to the highest levels of consciousness possible" but if it was infinity then in a sense, its just an analogy for the action "too seek higher" but eventually one has to pass through bodhisattva (nothingness) either way to get to buddahhood!

@Aakash When Ken Wilbur was describing it to her, he sounded like he was metaphorically speaking of an enlightenment. There is the nothingness phase, the everythingness phase, and the void phase. Instead of going through something, like the void, and thinking of it as a phase, the nothingness and you are already the same. Even the transformation is an illusion. It's good to know what is the transformation so you know where you came from, but you are already it. In other words, you're always that Space = Nothingness, and things are transforming within that space. But, if you happen to catch hold of a temporary embodiment, it sucks. You rather be the space. Temporary things are meant to be released, let go of, detached.

@Mu_ yeah it makes sense, Its prepping for the now.. almost like a mantra of some kind that directly connects your being to nothingness/ infinite something! in your present experience

Hi fellow integral fucks I wanted your take on this. In Judaism, most of the practice is about proper attachment, rather then detachment. There are so many guidelines! like 613, some of them are in form of `don;t be a woman`, etc. A third of the Buddha's teaching is about proper attachment, which is the morality part, Sila, which is basically about living life for the benefit of yourself and others around you. I'ts often said, concentration and wisdom( of nothingness) can be mastered, but the morality part cannot be and goes on forever. I'm pretty sure all tradition include some form of `proper` attachment, growing up in Israel, I hated the guts out of the orthodox Jews who were so strict with their Kosher and shabbat and that shit. But now come to think of it, how valuable this can be? Live consciously, any question about the behavior and morality is answered by the holy books, and you just follow and concentrate on being with God on the way. We here, at actualized.org often here that we are God, but yet to be aware of that, that we are nothing, but the infinite one-ness suchness that prevails all of everything and anything and absolutely infinite and benevolent. Imagine coming to terms with that, physical reality ceases to exist? everything disappears? Every time you have a conversation will you deny everything and claim "No no no, we can't have global warming because there is no planet, and warmth is a dualistic concept" I take a guess that it doesn't happen. We are stuck in this physical dualistic world so long as we are aware of it. So, detach all you want, but perhaps it will be much more beneficial to attach properly, as the Jews do, not necessary in their style, but you get the general idea. Thoughts?

I would call this group contemplation as a single unit! we all write abstracts with no intent of having meaning, we discover in our now.. we write those words that we think make sense THEN! someone else will recontextualise it, after our aggregated recontextualisation forms it into a spritual word I.E absolute nothingness. We all understand what that is, or enlightenment... these are spiritual words

this very post i posted has no logical sense to me... its almost like it contains no meaning from my point of view.. although i'm trying to put it in an coordinated manner ... still the meanings are infinite because you leave it to the imagination of the individual of the infinite on your sides of the screen. Its like a magnificant social-complex as @ivankiss once said to me.. I just think if i was to forecast future that lets say everyone was enlightened then what ? the world would stop in absolute nothingness lol there would be nobdoy to enlighten. At this point enlightened ego's would develop ?? they would be from the truth which is absolute nothingness and so you could call them true egos or ! true-trues!

@Serotoninluv , @Preetom I propose reversing the all duality paradox's all together AT current i feel like 1 and 2 become 1 then that 1 becomes 2 (by natural phenomena) and that becomes 1 then becomes 2 again, the strange loop never ends. YOu are left with paradoxs with no answer at all. Given you reverse all paradox's you create new terminological meaning and then you can rearrange with your true ego this time. Its basically what i feel leo is doing. You can't read into a situation properly unless your enlightened to some degree thats one issue The second issue is that if your enlightened and you end up being content with absolute nothingness or what ever position you are at then thats completely fine as we all know. But it , itself , to me that is. Does not signify it's the end but only grounds for a new landmark to take place. Since i believe something is changing. even if something is nothing. nothing is changing to or non are changing and this is where you end up with @winterknight negating dualities. I think here all thats left after this is imagination. Not the imagination of the false ego you create out of unconsciousness but the true ego you create out of consciousness and then you split back into 2 and then go to 1 ,2,1,2,1 and it's a never ending cycle for the whole of infinity.

@Hellspeed although i don't critise your expressionism; IT is very abstract :') @purerogue comment had me in stitches; none the less i can see both sides of the arguement; i think what ITs saying is there's no hidden meaning of nothingness in your words; your just throwing out pure expression of imagination and its difficult for unenlightened people to grasp and so its so called scyfy looooL!

Recent experiences have led me to question whether absolute nothingness, infinity , void or other are truly the end of end. Let me state first that, if self-deception is total, which i don't hold in concept i truly experience it. Then i would concur that: Give a creator some tool and he will create bullshit give a bullshit some tool and he will spread bullshit give the bullshitted some tools and he will replicate bullshit IN OTHER WORDS, if you give absolute nothing tools he will create bullshit? "it can not be encapsulated, only in the now etc.. etc... , you have not got what is being said, you are conceptualising etc.. etc... " the human animal bullshitting machine can only bullshit as much as you feed it; so naturally the way to stop this is to feed it absolutely nothing However! We are still stringing nows together, here is where words have broken down and i can not articulate metaphysical meaning but have to do my best with analogies and metaphors to state the obvious. So i will do the counter intuitive thing and state the obvious without explanation here All maps of the territories are cycles because the nature of awareness A) 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8787878789789789789789,10,7,8,9,10 etc etc --> the 10 ox herding pictures B) All strange loops C) Rebirth cycles in hinduism Rebirths as such in our recontexctualise meaning YOU! are now the one processing infinity with limited resources and so the recontextualised bullshit now belongs in this domain of relativity with implications of absolute nothingness associated NOW! imagine! Its obvious now that you created yourself at a starting point, forgot about yourself and then self-goverened yourself, (YOU in the BIG sense) but how did you THINK of what something is You defined something through perception / not perception But what is absolute Something!! sure the perception bought it to reality in duality terms, but you bought it to reality in non duality terms You! imagined it ! and it appeared, the creation was the intricate design. It had no use or purpose. It was simply imagined for the sake of understanding what am i. IT has to know initifity of itself to know what infinity feels like itself so you imaged yourself as this inifnity void that has no conceptuality just acceptance of a bigger self again I am now the creator but i don't have the ability to create. I have the tools to create something but what is something! pure awareness and void - IS imagination - ALSO IS the term we call imagination if ou recontextualise it! it becomes creation. Imagination is creation We are creating reality itself with imagination!! So if we are being now as you, what is the purpose - to play your part but what is the purpose - non duality but what was the purpose - Image the end of the strange loop between creation and creation ~ true non duality OR ABSOLUTE SOMETHING Kind regards My human animal bullshitting machine and ME.

When I was 7 years old I awoke from a dream and knew without any doubt at all what the world felt like from a girl's perspective. Although being just a prepubescent girl in the dream, there was a nonspecific boy whom I felt great love for. Whenever in the past I've tried relating this dream, it was always twisted by others into a sign of repressed homosexuality. In my local culture there is a lot of polarity thinking. It's either this or that. In spite of the dream, as Ken Wilbur puts it, I'm a hard wired heterosexual. It doesn't help that my nature is somewhat androgynous and I'm a heretic who openly associates with gay people. This local culture, for the most part, when saying the name Obama or the term liberal, a negative tone is used and it is just assumed the listener is also of like mind. So, in spite of having the dream and being somewhat androgynous in attitude, I grew up as an ordinary man pig. Actually, I'm quite a horndog. That's kind of the rule for Adrenal types though. From Maurice Nicoll: THE FEELING OF NOTHINGNESS “When the Work says that a man must come to realize his own nothingness before he can be re-born, it does not mean that he must humble himself and so on, but that he must by long self-observation actually begin to realize that he is nothing and that there is no such person as himself. The object of this is to get into a position, psycho- logically speaking, between the opposites...Why is it so important to get somewhere into the centre of the pendulum and not swing to and fro? Because here, between the opposites, lie all the possibilities of growth. Here influences from higher levels can reach us. Here, in this place where one can feel one’s own nothingness (and where one is therefore free from contradictions), influences and meanings com- ing from higher centres, which have no contradictions, can be felt. Not regarding yourself as good or bad, not priding yourself on being just or otherwise, not thinking you are well-treated or badly-treated, not being caught by either movement through identifying, you come into this mid-position. This is not easy! With personality active, it is impossible.

Awareness is alive nothingness. Awareness is intelligent nothingness.

Name: Arthur Bondar Age: 25 Gender: Male Location: Halifax, Canada (Lived in Ukraine and Israel) Occupation: Electronics Engineering Marital Status: In a relationship Kids: No Hobbies: meditation, books, programming, movies, this forum. I got into personal development in 2014. I found Actualized.org at a time of a big personal struggle, and from that moment, my life was never the same. I came to a cross-road and made a significant life decision. It wasn't easy, but I was rewarded with a teacher like Leo to guide me. I immediately recognized the deep wisdom of Actualized.org. It's been a very bumpy ride, but today, I'm reaping the benefits. I first started by improving my social skills, like any other young male. Here, Personal development opened my eyes to how much we care about what others think. I found what women are actually attracted too, and how the whole dynamic works. Many of my naive beliefs got crushed, and from the fire, a more mature understanding emerged. The quality of my life improved dramatically when I started Meditating. Every experience became infused with awareness. My mind is able to stay focused, sharp and clear. I'm can shift out of negative thought loops and destructive emotions. I consider Meditation to be the most important activity of all. 12 years of formal education is not as important as a meditation habit. Practicing meditation got me deeper into Spiritual work. Here, my life was changed once again by self-inquiry and psychedelics. I've experienced deep mystical states - Samadhi, ego death, and pure awareness. Today I know myself as empty consciousness that is aware of everything. All things come out of nothingness to the spotlight (me) for a brief moment, then disappear into the void. Personal challenges I've overcome: Playing video games and wasting time Moving to a new country to start a new life Problems with shyness and caring what others think Co-dependent relationships Unhealthy diet and lifestyle Attachment and ego-clinging What I'm working on now: Helping others and contributing to the world Gaining more practical skills Working on my Life Purpose Self-realization - Enlightenment

I think you should seperate this NEW NEW NEW NEW age ideas I.E imagination from the enlightenment / spirituality thread. Maybe call it nothingness or something But i think theres a clear gap in individuals understanding and its like you said the lessons aren't being toned down simply to grasp. Theres too large of a gap in my opinion. Let me know what you think? or any of you for that matter really.

But who is aware of that nothingness?

@Rilles yes very easy just nothingness

Recent experiences has caused me to question what the divine play is. In hinduism ... it ... is called leela. If we are all playing our role, then who is watching out for the overall role. It is a natural paradox, am i big or small. This is the duality that leads to I am small-big and this is what we call non duality. I am small , i am big , i am small-big , i am big-small as long as in your role you identify with ONE thing you are non- dual. Could it be as such, that the role of playing ONE thing has no distinct boundaries, therefore it only leaves the role and term "playing in the now" "What came first the chicken or the egg" in other words what came first Something or nothing ... The answer we know now is nothing .... they appeared at the same time , in fact they are non dual. so for all dualities to collapse you have to arrive at the point where all terms are the same between big and small and the obvious answer you arrive at is simple... the big and small are dualities, the answer can not be encapsulated by any human standards, besides absolute truth and void or another definite of complete nothingness. Okay so you arrive here and lets say you let go of everything entirely... you become non duality itself .. You become one thing! A force of nature, belonging to a bigger self ... YOU itself I agree you can become absolutely nothing, but you can't actualise absolute nothing unless you actualise absolutely something in other words, might it be that as non duality... the role we play is one role ... to create something out of nothing! The paradox turns inwards and the duality completely collapses! saying we are absolute nothingness does not raise consciousness levels fast, the fastest way is to produce something out of nothing. produce yourself out of nothing. Human is only a construct itself, pure awareness however is the only thing real ofcourse! but only as far as hallucinations go! or absolute nothingness. what are your thoughts on this matter? reality constructing itself?

@Leo Gura A question I have had for a while .. do you think Sadhguru’s inner engineering, hatha yoga, and shoonya (also a kriya designed to experience nothingness) will give the same benefits as the kriya yoga you speak of? I do want to go slower and safer (sadhguru’s way) but I also do want to experience the benefits of the hardcore kriya yoga you speak of

@cetus56 Not so easy to do in this life: The pain is the pain. A person saying, "I am the pain," without suffering is rare. There is a special kind of mole that doesn't have any nerves that could do this. That's why we use our life purpose as a vehicle to actualize with flow -- to reduce our karma and hopefully, by the end of our lives, reach nirvana and graduate from this life so we don't have to be embodied in any ego ever again. Or...we have the free will to go anywhere and become anything, anytime/anywhere after we reach nirvana. That's what it means too, right? Everythingness / Nothingness.