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That first paragraph was a tongue in cheek way of illustrating how people, gurus, 'teachers', seekers and even our own egos often will frame the 'path'. That it has to be the most exemplary form that is the truth and anything but it is viewed as the complete opposite, this framing is done lure us onto the wheel and chase it. That brings me back to my original point that started this exchange, the abstract ideal that is set up as bait to lure us into chasing it. whether it's heaven, nirvana, enlightenment, truth, absolute and on and on. That's what makes it an ideal, it's an idea, a concept but people will believe it's real, a fact, the truth and not just their own personal one but a universal one that is for everyone and everything... because... the bait of perfection, for absolute, for the ONE the only true ONE! It's all built on belief, I could list out every belief people have just to get to the point of believing that one has no beliefs, that it isn't belief... no, it's TRUTH! Even if one wants to deny they have belief, instead to call it fact or reality it relies on a bunch of individual beliefs dependent on one another to support the chain of psychological trust that forms a personal ideology to call something a fact/reality.... but is still belief. Then some will package their own personal belief ideology or adopts someone else's in whole, in part or in combination and 'sell' it to themselves as truth and to others for them buy into as their own belief....even to sometimes literally sell it in books, seminars, satsangs, videos.... religions....to pay money to believe as they do. That is the point in this thread, too, people delude themselves into believing their own belief even that it isn't belief at all but call it a truth, an absolute truth.... the Truth, the ONE Truth. Me? I have awakened to it and just enjoy the trip, enjoy life...whatever it is. Being now here, allow it to be the fulfillment of all potential for what it is. Not try to control it's interpretation and conceptualization or claim some complete knowledge and understanding of it as absolute truth.... do I have it? Can I have it? Maybe... maybe not...does it matter?...Really? I let go of the yearning for it and the wheel stopped spinning....there is peace. If you experience this as well, then, so be it.

@Nahm But is your God the most Godly? It has to be the truthiest truth, the most infinitely infinite and absolutely absolute or you are mired in the most delusional illusion! The most false deception of misery will consume you unless you hurry on that hamster wheel rushing to the other end of the duality I say it offers freedom from because I have the words... ideas .... beliefs of Truth which has a T that is the most capitalized evar! Once I awakened to the cycle of yearning in my consciousness that creates the hamster wheel in the mind and instead attune my awareness to a contentment in just being present those poles of duality ceased to be the source of suffering in my experience. True and false lost it's power to what is, real and illusion lost it's grip on being, genuine liberation from that cycle.... I'm sure there are many words for it and they are all free.

Upon realization, one looks back and wonders how and why does the seeker even come to exist? For Truth? Only to realize that once the seeking has stopped, that was liberation. To realize who and what you are. Prior to this the 4 or + years of seeking just seemed like a bad dream, yet felt so solid and real. It becomes a bad joke and there is nothing to do but laugh! But of course, PARADOXICALLY much hard seeking and yearning is needed in the beginning. To the "awakened" state, seeking just seems like a bad joke, but to a seeker, it's either life or death, a deep deep yearning. <- This deep yearning can confuse the "awakened" state, as like "for realz dude?" (This is not a disclaimer for seekers to give up there search, but at the same time it does!) I'm so confused about this and that's why I'm making a post about it!!!! HAHAHAH! Enlightenment is just a concept that the ego attaches to as something solid or an attachment one could acquire. But it's just giving up the pretense of becoming anything. This probably doesn't make any sense to a seeker. I am not saying I'm the slightest awake or my ego is just tricking me but for once in my life of 4+ years of meditation, I have no desire to meditate or look into spiritual teachings. Now reading or watching videos of teachers talking about enlightenment is just the most obvious thing ever. I don't know if this is the side effect of awakening but for the first time it just clicks and there's this deep knowing of the obvious.

@Monkey-man I have the same thing happen. My sense is that this is a reminder that whatever you thought was "productive" before was actually just your ego chasing after illusory goals. So when you experience higher states of consciousness you realize this and thus have no motivation to pursue them. Ultimately, this seems like a step back for your ego, but it is a step forward for a higher self which perhaps will align with actions that come from a more awakened place.

Source Mystic said: I would like to condense this just a bit and say that ego is the function that constitutes karmic evolution in terms of creation. Leaving aside concepts for the moment, there is still no "your" either before, during or after experiencing the sudden. Complete perfect enlightenment bears this out. The "fear" expressed in the OP is precisely what destroys the power of nonbeing's objectivity in the aftermath of the sudden by virtue of clinging. Clinging to one's tiny bit of enlightenment in terms of experiencing the absolute is no different than clinging to one's prior false identity. So ego isn't "your" being; rather, it constitutes the locus of the identity-cluster of the psychological apparatus of the being that is going to die. Even in terms of the temporal, there is no "your", and there never has been. This is the meaning of liberation. Yet the point of sudden enlightenment is actualizing enlightenment in the midst of conditions. In and of itself, enlightening experience is the relative extreme of delusion. Dogen said that "people become buddhas and buddhas become people." This is how it works. If enlightenment changes anything, it's not enlightenment. He also said that "further, there are people who attain realization upon realization and people who are deluded within delusion." Both statements are analogous. In terms of carrying out enlightening activity in the midst of ordinary affairs, nothing changes for the awakened person who sees potential and has learned to work with essence directly, whereas ordinary people go along with karmic momentum because they follow their thoughts unawares. Enlightenment is the experience of forgetting thoughts, thinker, knower and known. What is critical to note is that "realization upon realization" is the mind of delusion. "Deluded within delusion" is reality in terms of Suchness. Ego eradication is the interruption of self-refying thought constituting the fallacious identity. Function or no, universally selfless true intent constituting reality is that which is glimpsed in the instant of reversion beyond time preceding creation, karma and infinite existence. So "ego death" is the relative cause of enlightenment as well as the functionality of enlightening activity in the world before and after experiencing the sudden. Therefore "without ego" does not exist, as Source Mystic notes because "without ego" is conceptually relative to "selfless", in terms of conceivability. The boon of complete perfect enlightenment is not only the elimination of the personality's compulsions, but also because ego can now revert to its true purpose which is to serve the immovable shining unborn nonpsychological awareness in the awake being. In the opening of his taoist classic "Understanding Reality", Chang Po-tuan wrote, "If you come upon the great elixir without even looking for it, having come upon it, you are a fool if you do not refine it." This means that sudden enlightenment isn't something to keep, relative to having a self— it is the inconceivable nature of human being (which is a verb). Adapting selflessly to ordinary conditions isn't a matter of precepts or even morality because enlightening activity before or after the sudden is the nature of one's inherent enlightening function, which is inconceivable. In order to do so, it is not only the light of ego-function which is advantageous to keep hidden. So the process before and after the sudden is not separate from its source, having no beginning nor end. Enlightenment is just seeing who is aware— who has always been aglow. There is no one who is not just this right now. Yet "just this" is not people. Wonder of wonders! ed. note: change "result" to "cause" in paragraph 7

I have no personal experience with tm. I lost my interest because its commercialism and mainstream popularity. Here is an excellent video on tm and other subject as well from 2 awakened dudes.

In awareness I awakened to existence 'before' the big bang... I am fulfilled by the potential of it in my being.

Well that happened for me a couple of days ago, and needless to say it was reeeeally something. These tips are written sort of like notes for myself, so don't read these as commands you must follow. This thread is not a "tell us how you did it" thread, because the truth is, there is no method so what's the point. If you really really wanna know it happened trough (in order of importance): Pure, cosmic dumb luck I was on mushrooms (quite mild trip, could have had a normal convo although it would have not been pleasant at the time) Prolonged daily meditation practise (30-120min per day) Mindfulness (I consider myself a beginner) Self-inquiry (gonna do ALOT more of this in the future) At the time when it happened, I had been meditating and self-inquiring for about 50minutes. Then: BAM! But here are the insights: Forget enlightenment, instead go straight for TRUTH Leo (among many others) has mentioned this multiple times but I'll mention it again because its CRITICAL. Enlightenment is not true for you (or me atm, I was not awakened permanently) until you have it, until then, forget enlightenment and set you course for truth. Consider enlightenment as another bullshit story until you get it personally. Stop thinkin "Im awareness, Im awareness, Im everything...." This trap is a big one and I was In it for quite some time. Truth and enlightenment are NOT the same thing in this sense. I strongly feel one big reason my awakening happened because I really really really forgot everyhting I had heard and read about enlightenment and the truth of no-self moments before it happened. Thats why it blew me away so hard: THE SELF DOES NOT EXIST! The deeper you forget enlightenment, the better. It helps if you: Stop consuming enlightenment theory (so much at least) All this is doing is filling your head with bunch of ideas, and you don't want that. It's just another distraction from doing the actual work. Your mind knows this. it's really safe and sound when you are concentrating on ANYTHING other than it. When you inquire, its CRITICAL to REALLY mean what you are asking You must really be interested to the bone what you are, you must crave the truth with every inch of your being. Robotically repeating the questions will get you nowhere. I encourage you to think about other things as well before/during inquiry to really get your interest and love for life going, like the universe, life, death etc. Also, when you inquire, do it with a big dumb smile in your heart and face. LOVE the question, LOVE the fact that silence is your answer EVERYTIME you ask a question. LOVE that you feel frustrated, because: The more you "fail" at inquiry, the better Feeling stuck? GREAT! That means your mind is hard at work trying to do the impossible. Realize that thats the purpose of inquiry. Do it anyway. Become really aware between the distintion between a memory and a truth Cross your hands and look at them. There they are. Now close your eyes. They now have zero reality to them physically, now you only have a memory of them. Memory is just a mental image and NOT true. You only have the sensation of your hands, and you percieve them in your consciousness. Also, the room you think you are in, does not exist, nor does your head, body, the world or ANYTHING other than the stuff that is in your direct experience. When you close your eyes, the world literally disappears. You must be diligent to give absolutely ZERO reality to anything other than your experience. Spiritual ego exists only so you can give it away Don't try to become really "spiritual" person, thats nonsense. You already are the spirit, there is nothing that could build it more. Don't mistake spiritual ego to be some better and kinder version of your regular ego. It's a hot potato your ego latches onto, it possibly makes you feel happier and more positive, but it blinds you from the truth. The general feeling I got was, that when I just handed everything I was holding onto away, my beliefs, self-image, assumptions and especially spiritual ego, I was so naked that the truth could finally reveal itself to me. It felt like I was talking so loudly my whole life without a stop that the truth simply did not get a say. When I finally shut up for just a second, it said:

Question whether non awakened people tolerate your differences in the same sort of way you are planning on attempting to tolerate their differences. It's humbling as I suspect an immense amount of kind "low conscious" people are tolerating us "awakened" people too. Question whether this "low conscious" person will try and change you into someone like them, just like you hope you may bring them to your line of thinking. Be 100% open to the possibility you are not awakened and the person you believe low conscious is more conscious than you. Maybe you're the life of the party or maybe you start conversations nobody else finds conductive to a good time and actually tolerate you but just try and keep things lite. Maybe some "low conscious" people already tried every thing you tried and are on a spirituality break. Basically be humble and think it's possible some other people who seem low conscious are actually very stable of mind, live a large portion of their lives anxiety and pain free due to lucky genetics and other factors and therefor already live in the now by pure luck. I used to think I was the only one in my group really thinking deeply about these things but these days I realize I was the most depressed person in my group. But if you really are awakened then you will not even remotely be bothered with any of these issues. If you were awakened you would not be asking these questions. I'm not trying to have a go, I just believe not one of us is awakened yet - not even Leo.

Many (especially the younger generation) that have awakened recently seem to have connection to Lemuria and Atlantis because what is happening on the planet as one of the most important times for the collective awakening and expansion of consciousness from 3D to 5D living/understanding that also said happened at those times which (due to technological advancement overpowering spiritual development) lead to almost the destruction of all life on earth. So, many energetic-blueprints from those times are reincarnating in this specific time/space of the "Great Shift" to make sure this time around the transition from darkness to light is successful. This is the reason why millions of people have woken up in such a short period especially in the last 5-10 years more than ever before in our known history. I have and understand this knowledge because i am directly connected to Lemuria and Atlantis as well as the Arcturian Collective. I came to this realization naturally as my awakening came to fruition as well as being told so by a channel which had no knowledge of past life experiences and connections that only confirmed it further. I also channel time to time by self expression and sometimes when the energy is powerful i sway back and forth and my hands and body seem to have a mind of their own and start moving in a wave-like pattern yet have perfect synergy with the vibration of the words spoken and others say they notice a shimmering glow in eyes and aura when this happens. Other times i awaken early from sleep and having all this energy to release and i can write and type things for hours without thought interfering with the process. Sometimes it almost brings me to tears because it is the purest feeling of passionate self expression of source energy, it humbles me beyond words. I am so proud of you all don't let others bring you down or tell you otherwise, you know best. You always did as all comes and came from within. Always has and always will. Love & Light Bless!

@RawJudah That's how the shift happens with any awakened being - the false self collapses, you become disillusioned, you see through the smokescreen of the ego. That's why they call it liberation. You embody what is. And this happens different ways for different people. Nothing to be puzzled about

*My awakening experience seems to have a direct correlation with my dietary changes to 100% raw vegan with no cheating. I thought it would be more appropriate to post here since it's about my direct experience. I have currently been 100% for about 1 1/2 months now. I just wanted share my awakening journey to help inspire those around me. I was divinely guided by the spirit world to go raw vegan fruitarian for many years. I did it once before a few years ago and I was raw vegan for 6 months and I reversed my ovarian cysts. I finally took the plunge a month and half ago and it has been the best thing that has ever happened to me. My depression is diminishing and I’m currently going through a spiritual detox. My thinking, logic and my spiritual connection has strengthened and improved. Old painful memories from the past are coming up in my dreams and I’m being given the opportunity to heal so I can create new abundance in my life. On day 28 of my new diet I had an awakening experience. I was out walking my friend’s dog and my monkey mind shut off for about three hours. Consciousness was experienced and realization of the truth...awareness. Things were complete, whole and at peace. Utter bliss. Problems, stress, worries created by the ego were gone. There was nothingness, and this nothingness gave satisfaction and fulfillment that can not be fulfilled or found through seeking outer experiences. Things were experienced, seen, felt, heard but without expressing opinion or emotion (ego). The ego was gone. The dog would bark at random strangers and the ego would normally get annoyed, but as awareness it was noticed without judgement, emotional output and with indifference. The dog can choose to have it's own experience. Awareness is connected and shared as all one consciousness...it is harmony and it is peace. And that awareness loves and accepts the dog for what it is regardless of it's circumstances. I also wanted to add this.......I (the ego) has been struggling for a long time to find and discover a life purpose. And after having this consciousness experience the spirit world led me to this book by Eckert Tolle called “ A new earth. Awakening your true life purpose.” I knew for a long time the importance of the law of attraction and manifesting your desires but I felt a gut feeling in my stomach that this wasn’t the whole basis of our existence. Something wasn’t right. Yes it is nice to manifest your own reality but I could see as I was cleansing from this detox that my emotions and desires could change instantly at any moment. I also knew that just because you want something and you manifest with the law of attraction it doesn’t mean it will make you happy and fulfill your life. Our ego is a bottomless pit that can never be completely satisfied and is always craving more.... dwelling on the past, and looking too far into the future. When the truth is the present is only thing here to experience and that exists. It is to be appreciated and enjoyed. We are always seeking to fill these gaps and these fears with relationships, addictions, food, money, etc. I was doing this with romantic relationships...I thought I was seeking love but I was really craving an attachment..which isn’t healthy and low vibration. True happiness and success comes from within. I discovered in this new book and through my direct experience that we have two life purposes, an inner purpose and an outer purpose, that are intertwined with each other. The inner purpose ( the primary purpose for everyone) is to become awakened/enlightened to who you really are, consciousness, to get rid of the ego....the end of all suffering. Once you know you are consciousness you can use the law of attraction to manifest abundance but from the right vibration and perspective for your outer purpose. The outer purpose can always change, and be altered, but the inner purpose remains the same. A lot of this may not make sense to you unless you have directly experienced consciousness, the infinite, nothingness, all that is.

@Jamie Universe Since all is in actuality self, there is a direction and spectrum to the visual & audible aspect of waking up. Typically, it starts with a lot less thinking / mental filtering activity / projection (or the rare “fuck all” / suicidal trigger of awakening), resulting in increased awareness of our person and surrounding - appreciation of our “beingness”. Animals & botanical life don’t have our intensity of thinking filter, I presume they are total “beingness” - “infinite intelligence”. So there’s a connection with nature we ascend to, and likewise nature resonates with our awakened presence - there is twoness in the illusion, but of course oneness in the underlying reality. Then we experience it with people. Then inanimate “reality”. “Reality” itself, is not consistent, it certainly appears to be, but perception is everything, as there is no “reality” which is perceivable, only reality perceiving, only One, which is perceiving it’s self. It really is a “Jamie Universe”, quite literally.

Let's say I'm working a lot on myself. I am pretty awakened to certain existential truths, I read self-help materials, I research my diet and fitness stuff, I plan my life and career, I take care of my look and I do my best to be a good girlfriend. Can I build a successful relationship with someone who probably doesn't even know or care about these things and just is the way he is? Not to mean he is dumb or unworthy of my love. Sure he can be caring, sexy, funny, charming and all the stuff some guys cannot achieve even with self-help books and courses... But we don't always connect. So I have a few questions: 1. What is the biggest obstacle in a relationship between an ordinary person and someone doing self-development? 2. Can it be a successful relationship? If so, what is necessary for this to happen? 3. Is it worth a shot? What experiences can one gain, if any? 4. What if both are in love with each other, but don't always connect? 5. Is it possible to get him involved into self-development for the sake of the relationship? If so, how?

I sat 3h + 1h. I planned to sit 6h but during the second session I realized how angry I am and stopped. 1st 3 hour long session + nofap hormone boost gave me some ego backslash and awakened some deep emotional pain. Haven't been that much angry for a while. I hung up a thin rope in the middle of the room, made a playlist of the most heavy songs of Slipknot and was punching it for 30 minutes. If you concentrate on something and ignore your emotional pain it's going into shadow and it will hit you afterwards with the force that is proportional to effort that you apply to concentration. So if you have a lot of shadow pain better make it your object of concentration. I have just reread my first post and set an intention to read it every time I post here (those two lists).

@Deep Even though it's a totally speculative moot point, if every individual human expression were in the 'higher' state you imagine, and no longer had any interest in lowly carnal pleasures, would they all just abstain from sex in view of the fact that the collective human experience would be extinct within one generation. I suppose mass artificial insemination would be an option, but somehow I suspect that the unique intimacy of the love-based relational experience would still have its appeal. There just wouldn't be some unnatural obsessive need for it to fill the void of a sense of something lacking. Even in a truly awakened state, wherein egoic identification is completely dispelled, there would still likely be a recognition of the unique role of relational experience, and the integral part that an apparent individual locus and expression of Awareness plays within it. Thus the dream doesn't end, it's just revealed to be what it actually is.

In this thread, I'm going to explain how and why higher consciousness can become a "problem" while functioning in society. I put problem in quotes because it's a problem from the egoic perspective. By higher consciousness I don't mean being a "goody two shoes." I mean being fully awakened from egoic consciousness. I studied the life of 3 sages and I'll use them as an example later. I'm just writing this to give everyone a different perspective. In Advaita, the highest level of consciousness is nirvikalpa samadhi. A good way to describe it is like this: “How silly! This jug is God! This cup is God! Whatever we see is God! And we too are God! Nothing could be more absurd.” Sri Ramakrishna came out of his room and gently touched him. Spellbound, he immediately perceived that everything in the world was indeed God. A new universe opened around him. Returning home in a dazed state, he found there too that the food, the plate, the eater himself, the people around him, were all God. Swami Nikhilananda. Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna (Kindle Locations 1884-1887). Ramakrishna-Vivekananda Center of New York, Inc.. Kindle Edition. When the Kundalini reaches the cerebrum, it's also called nirvikalpa samadhi. Here are 3 people who had an awakened Kundalini: What do all of these men have in common? They didn't engage in egoic activities. They didn't have a job. They didn't have sex. They had little money. They practiced renunciation. Other people provided them with food and shelter. In ancient India, the kings provided the sages with food and shelter. In return the sages would provide spiritual wisdom. How does this become a problem? We need the ego to function in today's society. In modern society we have to provide for ourselves. We have to use concepts whether we like it or not. Language is a concept. Science is a concept. Math is a concept. Money is a concept. We can be detached from concepts, but we still have to use them. The ego attaches to concepts to ensure the body's survival. Kundalini demolishes the ego. For example, if a banker on Wall Street experienced nirvikalpa samadhi, he/she would probably quit his job and do whatever the hell he/she wants to. Same with many other people. Why would they participate in mundane bullshit if they can experience God? I think it's wrong when people say, "Before enlightenment, chop wood and carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood and carry water." No, enlightenment can dramatically change the way one perceives reality. I don't think it's possible to be liberated and succeed in the egoic world. If one chooses spirituality, they should dominate it. If one chooses egoic life, they should dominate it. Nothing can be half-assed. Anyway happy new year!

Well, apparently there can be major brain impairment and still be relatively normal awareness, as in this example. Also, there is now significant evidence that some psychedelics actually temporarily reduce brain activity, and that, at least in some cases, brain damage, e.g. due to strokes, is associated with enriched consciousness, as explained in this Scientific American article. However, not sure anyone really knows how brain activity correlates to the so-called awakened state. But it might make for an intriguing study.

I am living it. Chop wood, carry water before, chop wood, carry water after. Reached what? The enlightenment path isn't a path to enlightenment, it's a path with enlightenment. Every moment on this path is walking awake to being present now with the whole being, with the whole consciousness, with the whole universe. It seems one thing preventing you from being fully awakened is your idea that you haven't reached it or that it's a future happening when it's really a present happening, it only ever happens in the present. The ego has gripped onto this idea to keep it's identity as the 'seeker', it's infused itself to the consciousness work in such a way that it prevents you from realizing it presently. Resolving this within your consciousness will open you up to being awake in the present with everything, every breath, every step, every emotion and thought, even every mundane aspect of life will awaken. It's right now, there's no reaching that needs to be done to be it. So live it.

The egoic selves that we create are an illusion therefore, in a way, “you” or “I” could be considered presently dead. When “I” had an ego death experience, it felt like I was actually going to die, though physically I was fine. I awakened to find I’ve been in heaven all along.

@SOUL awakened is to see that you are reality, and all atoms are illusion. The middle way was the first thing the Buddha talked about upon awaking, and it is relative to desire and gratification / endulgence. It was not intended as literal verbiage, it is advice on living life as a human, to humans who were not as serious as Sidhartha relative to the pursuit of what they themselves are.

@Nahm The illusion of atoms is both being empty and full, being both something and nothing, the ones who are awakened to the middle way are liberated from that illusion.

Thousands of years ago a seeker was lost on the path between the extremes of self indulgence and self mortification, of living to the self and dying to the self, but then was awakened to the middle path and liberated in enlightenment. Awaken to being in the moment of nirvana.

My thirst for truth awakened dramatically a couple a years ago, a knew the absolute as a concept through non-dual teachers. Statements like "All is one and the one is all" got my attention. I started to recognise this truth inside of me. A couple of 5-meo also confirmed this truth beyond any doubt.

It might sound weird and girly but throughout my childhood I developed fear of growing up which throughout my early adulthood developed into strong fear of aging. I used to think about death and becoming old from age of 5, it did bother me a lot then. almost couple decades later i still did not get over that. i mean i sorta forgot about it in my teens and came back to that fear extensively during this year and i'm posting this not because it is just regular fear. I mean it bothers me to the extent of suicidal behavior because of how much I already aged since childhood and teens. i did huge self-help work so far, i had many many issues, but i just can't get over this particular aspect. i'm young but my body and face became older than before and this thought killing me now i'm making research on elixir of youth, i'm getting insane. my fam are pissed off on me. i have a naive dream that if i only look younger like before i'd go and conquer the world but i'm holding myself back. what's wrong with me? it is so infantile and shameful, my self-esteem felt down to the bottom end. i don't want other people, friends and girls to see me. ps. i know i am not my body but i'm not awakened so this understanding do not help me much. pps. i have received professional help. they didn't help much