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Take a trip with me for a sec- Persistent happiness is being content with the present moment. You get it through 2 ways: Meaning- living for other people, spiritual experiences, Being, virtues, relationships... Not resisting the present moment at all, in other words getting rid of all of your samskaras, purifying your soul so no resistance is left, full enlightenment as the buddha achieved. I think meaning just allows the brain to stop worrying that the present moment is good enough, which means it is good enough for now. Obviously the second option is nearly impossible and insanely hard, i think unachievable if you lead a usual western lifestyle, hence only the first option remains. notice- in the second option I include all the spirituality that youre doing- love, unity, relationships, whatever.. it is NOT the second option. 99.9% of happy people are happy because of the first option. now here comes my trap (i think its a trap): For there to be meaning for me that holds up and makes me happy, i have to be sure that the meaning is true 100%, otherwise, even if i slightly doubt it, the whole meaning goes out the window. I say that because even with a slight doubt, in the back of my mind I will feel that it's not enough, hence no happiness for me. The thing is that I cant ever be sure that the meaning is true 100%. Every meaning is a creation of our mind, because different people have different meanings, and stuff that you interpret a certain way for example animals may interpret a certain other way (see Leo's video on what is meaning). Therefore objective meaning is an oxymoron. Now, there is no objective meaning, but the meaning that i feel subjectively can be true, right? its there, I experience it. At the end of the day, the perspective that "everything is meaningless" is just a perspective, its not The perspective, theres no such thing as the perspective, so theoretically I could just go on with my life with the perspective in which I feel meaning, hence im happy, everything is cool. Personally I cant do that. Me knowing that the perspective I hold isnt the perspective, and that I know there are other perspectives equally valid doesnt let me believe that the meaning is 100% true, hence i cant be happy. at all. except if i go live in a cave for a few years and go the second way of getting rid of samskaras. basically im fucked. I guess im not THAT fucked, i can to some extent not resist the present moment due to meditations. i can also feel meaning sometimes when i forget that meaning is false or not absolute. but the lack of satisfaction comes back. I hope you understood what i wrote, I tried to be articulate. help P.S. what i wrote right now actually implies, that not love, not helping people, not knowing everything is one will make me happy. The only thing that will make me happy is to stop resisting the cruel meaninglessness of my existence. (thinking that meaninglessness is meaningful is a samskara and takes full enlightenment to get rid of, I think) P.P.S Maybe there is a better way to stop all resistance except buddha-like meditation, like gaining wisdom through studying combined with meditation, kriya yoga maybe, idfk, but meaning is NOT a way out. P.P.P.S I guess love and all that stuff is just a side effect and not the point.

Thanks! Do you think 5-MeO-DMT (or some other psychedelic) can be used for reaching full enlightenment?

@Jed Vassallo Can't really say if there's any credibility to this report. It just bluntly lists some serious allegations. No info as to where those are taken from. Anywho, problematic gurus are not a new thing. The problem with a guru is, they get elevated to a god-like status by their students and followers, which allows them to have vast power over other people. My first idea is I am all about teachers discouraging and trying to avoid the creation of such dynamic, which is vastly unhealthy. I can't say whether they don't do this because it's too much effort, or whether they don't do it because they desire the power of gurudom. I guess it depends on the case. It takes a purified mind to not abuse the power a guru has. Many so-called gurus have lots of issues still to deal with. The ability to control, have sex etc can become very strong temptations. Be the facts as they may, Mooji is nowhere near a living embodiment of full enlightenment, which is apparent in his lack of understanding of pain and human suffering. Many non-dual teachers tend to get stuck in their own bubble that is removed from the real world. Bullshitting yourself and avoiding growth is in a sense easier to do in a non-dual state.

That's also possible. It's possible to activate your energy in such a way that your body doesnt feel pain. In martal arts there's a way to cut the connection between your body and nervous system then you can walk on glass or smash bricks with your head or smth There're actually many states of being,.many tricks of the body to end the suffering. But most of them are not full enlightenment. One that could be closer to enlightenment is breaking your identification with the body and mind and experiencing yourself seperate from these two. It's a certain samadhi state when body can rot it doesnt matter. In your experience it's not even happening to you. I heard stories of sages who did things like that from sadhguru Here's one interesting state.

@Serotoninluv I have hit a roadblock, my red survival need is based on the fact i want to reach enlightenment and that it's already hit a really unhealthy stage fast, because i took it to the extreme in this one segment of red, i haven't tried other things that are red because i pretty much see the illusion of reality. so its either i give up the perspective that right now i should reach enlightenment and become healthy again, and move into more dynamics of red. or i continue searching for full enlightenment, which is already here but because my survival need hinges on this. i will sacrifice everything to get it. (hence unhealthy) what is your advice? PS note: DAMN spiral dyanmics can explain so much lol

Value the architect building skyscrapers above “my” complete & full enlightenment. It reveals value projection, on enlightenment, but there’s no such thing as enlightenment, and value is a thought. ”Quality of life”, is relativity / relative. Then factor in one who is well aware of this comes accross someone who is suicidal, and so they tell a story about how “you’d just be starting over”, or “you lived many lives to get to this point, keep going!”. It’s just hard to spot a story in a story. “Understanding” = Infinite Humor, like a punchline “needs” the setup. Without “understanding”, there is no inner & outer world, only crystalline emptiness, thoughtless and without movement.

@Aakash Thats a wonderful and true realization. The first part I mean. I personally believe the Buddha reached full enlightenment but of course we cant know for an absolute fact. I don't internally have doubt (related to the second fetter funny enough) in it because I think that all lack of seeing the truth comes from selfishness in one way shape or form. Selfishness, individuation, all come from fetters 1 through 9. But you are absolutely correct that there is no way to know for sure. What we can know is that the buddhas path of dissolving the ten fetters through the eightfold path is what all three of us could use to grow. I don't worry about there being no absolute end, because I'm content in my journey. I know what issues I have to work on and am in that process. It's possible that I dissolve all ten fetters and realize there is more, but I think its best for us to focus on our journey and not try to speculate on what the supposed end will be like without us reaching it. But I do feel you, those feelings you are having are a natural part of the uncertainty to life that everyone feels. It is a very natural and human way to feel.

Based off of my experiences and a couple of my friends, i really do think that psychs as a conductive tool for spiritual work is mostly hype, and that actual full enlightenment can never come from a psychedelic, i think psychedelics can give you glimpse experiences though and thus awaken you to nonduality. Due to the fact that psychedelics are energetic amplifiers, its in their name aswell, psychedelic means "soul revealing" and as we know, a substance that amplifies your energetic system can have many benefits, such as dealing with trauma, having a new perspective, and even awakening to nonduality, but theres a difference between an awakening and actual enlightenment, awakening to nonduality is the mere start, a process of dissolving fear mechanisms and the attachments that resist and run away from them and its thought patterns, take place. this is why there is a big difference between a zen master and a dude who just awoke to nonduality. the main incongruency that i noticed between psychedelics and enlightenment is firstly, psychs amplify your emotional system thus the chance of you being stuck in your own ego created worlds is higher than if u were sober, especially if you have self esteem issues then take a psych, and all of a sudden you're having a messiah mania or perverting the truth of godhood to make you feel powerful. this only one example, but we all know psychs are big emotional amplifiers, and enlightenment is the process of dissolving (not numbing) your emotions and their underlying fear mechanisms, so i cannot really see psychs being a long term good tool for enlightenment, i can only see it as an awakening or perspective tool, but use it too often and it can make you live in your own bubble of delusions even moreso than normal people. fancy and extreme experiences isnt enlightenment if you ask me. also curious what @Leo Gura thinks, all feedback is appreciated though.

Exactly. Soooo... then full enlightenment is what?

@Salvijus No cravings I mean no conscious or subconscious tendencies. The capacity itself to feel tendencies and vasanas. It goes very, very, very deep. You know how non dual teacher say emotions arise but their let go of easily. That’s just a calm state in which all your issues still remain. They just don’t stick. The complete cessation of such arisings. Reactions, and issues In an absolute way is what I call full enlightenment. Ive done a lot of practices. Started with ashtanga, and hatha, then Raja, a number of extreme breathing techniques, breath of fire, kriyas, number of gurus, everything really lol, and they each helped me. Great tools, but don’t attribute any of them to my either my awakening nor the process afterward. The place you are coming from, your intention, your perspective, your view, self honesty, awareness and genuinity matter far more. There are lessons you are here to learn. Are you learning them or averting your eyes. Trying to escape and live in a fantasy world. Practices can make you study faster, but if you are not even on the right chapter they can’t take you where you need to go. Hence the buddhas emphasis on the 8 fold path.

@Salvijus The Buddha and Theravada Buddhism. He is the only person that emphasises the end of craving, and all fear as full enlightenment. Whom I believe to be fully enlightened. I mostly use the buddhas teachings to make sense of what’s happening to me though. Practice wise. I dont really have a practice. My energetic process happens by itself, and is always quite intense. Meditation doesn’t even help anymore. I stopped meditating a while ago. Used to meditate 4-6 hours a day though at one point. Asides from the Buddha and Theravada Buddhism. Zen Buddhism is kind of good but now where near as nuanced and detailed. Very one dimensional. The last modern teacher that helped me, whose teachings I found helpful was sheng yen. That was a while ago.

@Leo Gura full enlightenment isnt really a fantasy since if there are degrees of depth of nonduality then there is a complete enlightenment, when all subconcious fears are released,that is considereed complete enlightenment. and yes i do know its a tall order, ive been stablized in nonduality for 4 years and have been doing mostly zen practices to embody the truth more deeply (releasing the subconcious fears). and i do agree with you that psychedelics can aid in many ways, as ive said energetic amplifiers have their benefits, but at a certain point in the path i feel like dealing with psychs is a bit like playing with fire, it can amplify blindspots and thus the process of dissolution becomes more rockier, depending on how well your foundation is of course.

@corndjorn Awakening and enlightenment are identical terms (at least on this forum). Yes, there are many degrees of wokeness and many degrees of embodiment and mastery. Yes, there is much left to master and become conscious of even after a deep awakening. "Full enlightenment" is virtually a fantasy and no method promises it. To become fully conscious of your entire emotional system and subconscious mind is a very tall order to fill. But even here, I think psychedelics can be helpful as you can use them to become more conscious of all aspects of yourself. Of course psychedelics will not do all the work for you if you're shooting for "full enlightenment". You'll need to spend THOUSANDS of hours in contemplation and self-study to achieve that. If psychedelics cause you to get lost in ego, that's something you're doing. It doesn't have to be that way. I use psychedelics quite sparingly. For every 1 trip I do hundreds of hours of meditation, integration, contemplation, and study. So there is no problem. If you're just tripping balls every week and doing no other spiritual work, yeah, that could become problematic.

@Leo Gura ive used psychedelics and benefited greatly from them, ive awoken to nonduality because of these substances and so i show my gratitude for that. However, many people including some gurus think that awakening and full enlightenment are synonomus with each other, when that couldnt be farther from the truth. Your limbic system has to catch up to the awakening by the slow process of dissolving subconcious fear mechanisms and attahcments running away from said fear mechanisms. Why i say at a certain point psychedelics are risky bussiness for a persons spiritual path is because the mere fact that the person is going through the process of dissolving attachments, goes against what many people do which is the subconcious chase of nondual experiences through psychedelics. now there isnt anything wrong with that for seeking purposes, but once awakened and you stabilize for a while psychedelics become more pointless ime and other peoples experience that ive talked to. energetic amplifiers have so much benefit im not denying that, but we are humans and we have egoic blindspots, and giving those blindspots an energetic amplifier will only make your process to enlightenment more rocky or more likely too. you can still use it as a tool sure, but based on what ive said i think its a flawed tool at a certain point, and there are more conductive ways of going through your spiritual process.

@Nahm no problem. a person awake to nonduality shouldnt feel wrong about talking about progress, its a natural part of this life were living, and awakening to the beyond is something benefecial indeed and is tied to enlightenment but isnt full enlightenment for the mere fact that all youre life youve been putting memory after memory of fear driven delusion in your subconcious mind, and fear and nonduality are not congruent as a result, fear and the egoic paradigm it drives, dissolves in the face of true nonduality.

@Matt8800 as ive said in the post, psychedelics are good tools for awakenings but NOT full enlightenment. ive had my first nondual awakening through psychs and i thank their purpose in my path, but at a certain point once youve been stabilized in nonduality sober for many years, youll see that the subconcious need for psychedelic or mystical experiences is just another attachment to be dropped, extreme and fancy experiences will never get you to enlightenment, only give u a fancy awakening. but full enlightenment is a slow delicate process of your limbic system catching up with the awakening.

@Aquarius ive said they are tools in the post, but im saying if youd like to advance in the spiritual path, you cannot be using psychedelics as a conductive tool anymore at a certain point, the mere subconcious need for mystical or cool experiences for it comes from attachment and thus underlying fear mechanisms, a person in nonduality has no need for a psychedelic experience and would in fact blunt the process that their system is going through. its a good tool as a starting spiritual tool like i said, as it helped me alot aswell, and it awoke me to nonduality, but psych experiences are perverted by many emotions that are amplified, and as humans we should be humble enough to realize that we have blindspots, and giving our blindspots an energetic amplifier is a bad idea, especially if you are on the path. but some tools are more conductive than others. would you use a fancy looking hammer to build your house or would you use a hammer thats most conductive to building the house? you can choose whatever hammer you want at the end of the day, but like i said, at a certain point in the path psychedelic use is not conductive for full enlightenment. and enlightenment is not a tool... tool for what exactly? enlightenment is the clearing of all fear mechanisms and their attachments, basically all of your ego, its not something your ego can take advantage of. some people mistake awakening as enlightenment when that couldnt be farther from the truth. enlightenment is when your limbic system catches up with your awakening, by clearing all subconcious energetic contractions. also your post makes alot of condescending assumptions/projections, i dont appreciate that.

@Esoteric Again, awakening to nonduality is not full enlightenment. ive been stabilized in nonduality for 4 years now, but your limbic system has to catch up to the awakening by clearing ALL fear mechanisms and the attachments that try to run away from it. only then and only then, can you be considered enlightened. before that you are just awake to nonduality, because there are still veils of delusion that cover your experience, which is incongruent to the nature of nonduality.

@Esoteric Yes, I am aware that psychedelics can be benefical for some people, but for a person who is undergoing the process of clearing out emotional bubbles, taking an energetic amplifier that amplifies your emotional bubbles (and also facets of consciousness and reality, such as nonduality) is a risky bussiness for someone who isnt seeking anymore and is just going through the process of enlightenment, since awakening to nonduality is one thing, which many gurus you know have done (many mistake this as enlightenment aswell) but full enlightenment which only occurs when your limbic system catches up with the awakening, is another thing. its a delicate process of releasing fear mechanisms and the attachments you use to battle them. so energetic amplifiers are dangerous in this regard because they make you more suggestible to your own egoic paradigms that you are blind to (the ones you are not blind to however, psychs can help in that regard, depending on if youre genuine or not). and if blindspots are amplified, your process to enlightenment is gonna be an unneccessarily bumpy ride.

@Joseph Maynor awakening to nonduality is one thing, the process that your limbic system undergoes after the awakening is another thing. the process by which it clears fear mechanisms and the attachments that resist and run away from those fears, since fear is delusional to a person awoke to nonduality. many misunderstand that enlightenment comes with awakening, they couldnt be farther from the truth however, its only the mere start, full enlightenment is when your limbic system catches up with the awakening. I suggest reading or watching some of sheng yen's work, and also shun ryu, both are buddhist monk masters who have been stable in nonduality for many years, but they have the guts to admit that they arent fully enlightened yet, unlike many other gurus.

@Salvijus Like I said, psychedelics can awaken a person to nonduality, but awakening to nonduality is not full enlightenment. your energetic system which has a memory of fear mechanisms and attachments has to catch up to the awakening. only then can that be full enlightement. because how can you be truly nondual when fear mechanisms are still in your subconcious mind? a cleansing process of your limbic system has to take place for full enlightenment. Psychedelics, being energetic amplifiers by their nature, amplify your consciousness which can lead to nondual awakening and also other things such as dealing with trauma and having new perspectives, but they also amplify your emotional bubbles ALOT, and humans by nature have egoic blindspots, especially during psychedelic experiences because everything is just amplified to a ridiculous degree. All emotion and their thought patterns are based off of fear mechanisms in your subconious mind. when you awaken to nonduality, you realize fear is delusion, thus, the process of uncontracting your limbic system of fear mechanisms and the attachments that resist them, start to take place. Also, you shouldnt take any Guru's word just because he says hes enlightened. many gurus awoke to nonduality and stabilized for many years but they dont admit that they arent fully enlightened either, i mean, you can clearly see that sadghuru still plays egoic games such as arrogance and also you can see anxiety in him in some interviews, this does not indicate a fully enlightened man, although he is in a very deep nondual state i have to say, its just that he hasnt dealt with alot of his issues and him being a guru and being attached to that identity kind of stops him from seeing his issues. I have been in nonduality for 4 years, enlightenment is not instatenous, awakening is however. the veils that cover reality slowly uncover from your subconcious once awakened, only when they are fully gone can you consider yourself fully enlightened.

@ivory awakening to nonduality is not full enlightenment. your energetic system which has a memory of fear mechanisms and attachments has to catch up to the awakening. only then can that be full enlightement. because how can you be truly nondual when fear mechanisms are still in your subconcious mind? a cleansing process of your limbic system has to take place for full enlightenment.

Ye, some can take a lot and barely move out of their regular mind mode, some take a little and they rebirth the whole universe, this is all the play and guidance of God, not a materialistic equation, it's therefor not impossible or unlikely, that despite many high doses, a crossing a certain treshhold was not given or integrated, as 'full' enlightenment, as Ramana and some others talk about, is said that it's always being in the perfect stillness of 'wakeful-sleep', wherein deep sleep is also Consciousness, different than the normal waking state, and different than sleep,.. ((but which he may or may not also experience)) -- 18 hours ago 'After two days of extend work with EEG analysis and neurofeedback treatments here in San Diego, the current official diagnosis is thalamocortical dysrhythmia insomnia. I did get three short rounds of sleep last night, hoping for something more substantial tonight, but this is a tricky issue, and a severe one. Basically, it’s something that’s been building since infancy. That’s all for now . . .' Hm, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalamocortical_dysrhythmia , doesn't seem very definitive, it's also not like we understand the brain very well, and we know it changes with behavior or thinking, idk

3a.so where am i on the path? i'm pretty lost, i understand i haven't fully surrendered to the emptiness/ nothingness. 3b. have i atleast caught glimpsed the whole ox or glimpsed a full enlightenment is what i would like to ask, but my opinion is there's no telling from another individuals prespective what i have experienced in my direct experience, you can only guide to what sounds right and what doesn't, because then theres no next steps but to embody it consciously to a mastery level, if i had to put it into an anology, i'm trying to create an imaginary ledge to stand on, on the mountain of nothing, because i'm lost in absolutely nothing. even the word enlightenment is not real, because it's pointing to this absolute nothingness which is not what my conceptual ideas of enlightenment were. but its very relieving and peaceful to know that its all an illusion, (well i say illusion, but its not even that, it's just nothing) 6. thank you 7. thank you

@Epsilon_The_Imperial people take different practices to uncontract and stabilize nonduality more, but ultimately the practices would be dropped aswell, insights can be thought of as practices or spiritual experiences too, but ultimately they all drop at full enlightenment. The best way is to reflect on yourself, buddha called it mindfulness meditation, being mindful and reflective of the ways your ego traps you, through urges and attachments which ultimately come from fear, which we all know is non existent in a true nondual state (full enlightenment), just observe and let go, you will also find out that this process will give you many more insights and depth of life, though it isnt important to cling ot them, maybe as a raft of sorts until full enlightenment. But ultimately everything jas to be dropped at full enlightenment, its just that when ur still in the early stages of awakening, you cant really drop everything just yet or youll go crazy, unless u choose the ascetic path, so using concepts such as compassion or other spiritual concepts can aid your path so that u have a more smoother ride to enlightenment. Once youve been in nonduality for a while, youll see these nuances of the path more and more. This is why the buddha emphasized the 8 noble path, but said at a certain point even that will be dropped.