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As for the so-called eternal consciousness, that experience is just the bodily sensations(sight, sound, smell, taste) coupled with a spiritually conditioned imagination. When that body dies, so will the concepts of so-called eternal consciousness held there. There is nothing eternal or permanent. No need to call nothingness eternal because it already never existed.....it's not eternal or temporary....it simply never was! ❤️

Thank you for taking the time to share some thoughts. This idea is still half baked so bare with me. They both exist to some extent. I believe the term "transcend and include" was popularized by Ken Wilber - a hugely influential writer in most english speaking spiritual contexts. Transcendence is exciting, mysterious, illuminating, confusing, and easy to spike emotions. It is often communicated as a panacea that you just quite haven't glimpsed yet. Just sit more, or go on more retreats, or buy my course. Memes spread faster and are stickier when it is presented in this framing. Thus it is common. This also means courses sell better in this framing and vulnerable people are easier to manipulate. Economic incentives perpetuate this framing as well. Moloch and marketing. Communicating to hurt souls that they must go through their own internal and external complexity (relationships, traumas, ambitions, sadness, anger, prides, joys, enlightenments) in a unique and personal way specific to them that no paint by numbers approach can facilitate doesn't sell and doesn't spread. This is however mostly true. Most of which enlightenment doesn't solve. After enlightenment the laundry or in our case the breaching of planetary boundaries, collapse of civilization, and destruction of all life on Earth. (I love you Leo no shade <3 just trying to make a point with a shared reference) Why has Leo reached "Alien conciousness" yet still talks down to his viewers and struggles to show even moderate levels of Love? Because in spite of his transcendence he has a lack of inclusion or integration. Why are we always talking about stages of development and (even though it is occasionally mentioned) never talk about what it means to include fundamental stages or what integration even looks like? Love, compassion, and depth are all ripened during inclusion and integration. These are the qualities that touch others hearts. Almost no one is moved to tears by your stories of how its all nothingness and god. They are moved by the way you listen when they need a shoulder. They are moved by an act of kindness when there is nothing to gain. These things are not cultivated in transcendence but rather inclusion (transcendence is necessary not trying to downplay its value) and yet are what a human life is about. When we strive for "higher" states of consciousness we forego reality. We want a delusion in our head, not the sacred reality that is our face. Who wants to cry for an hour about their childhood, or have depression or depersonalization for 2 years? No one, yet that is what life may call for us. This all can be part of a deepening process if integrated and included into our beings. If I bring Love to my darkest moments, then I can Love anything. Thank you for adding your perspective and sharing your time. <3 Spirituality is about reality and what is true. Transcendence and humanity are true at the same time. Relegating humanity to something lower or simply survival misses the point. Ultimately it is a dialectic to be resolved. God and humanity are one. God and survival are one. A human life although deeply moved by survival is so much richer than that. We are tasked with bringing as much of God into our human life as we can. Continually growing that capacity. It means how can we deepen our Love? How can we deepen our Wisdom? How can we deepen our compassion and understanding? How can we heal our trauma? How can we communicate more lovingly in an argument? How can we make sure our sister feels seen when she is sharing something vulnerable? Practical things that require so much inclusion and integration. Thank you for sharing! This is a point of view that I sympathize with because it makes so much sense to me. Unfortunately, I don't think it always lives up to its logic. We so often (not always) see those with seemingly enlightened states abuse their power, struggle to show compassion/Love, and be distant. You are right to point this out. It most certainly does not contradict and I apologize if I notioned in that direction. I believe they have some kind of dialectical relationship. If you have no new experiences, you have nothing to integrate. If you only have new experiences and no integration you are hollow/shallow. Integration/inclusion is so much deeper and richer than letting go of fear. But most people wouldn't know this since integration and inclusion never gets spoken about. Thank you for sharing this PurpleTree! This is certainly a trap in spirituality. To truly see reality you can't be looking elsewhere. But this is not what I am speaking of. Integration and inclusion is more than self help, self healing, or solving issues. It is about deepening your soul. If transcendence brings you up, integration grounds you. two sides of the same coin. Never heard of this! Sounds interesting! However, it does seem like another genuine but misguided reductionism of reality. to reduce spirituality to just trauma healing or to just vipassana or to just zazen is a similar reductionist mistake that scientists make when they reduce reality to just atoms. The human complex is so varied, personal, and mysterious. To grow takes everything. Preach my brother! Reality is everything in every direction. Just integrating/including the Love you shared in conversation with your mother is some of the most beautiful spiritual work you can do.

I don’t think there really is a nondual way of looking at these things. It’s basically to drop the self and others and then everything and all opinions mostly collapse into nothingness or unknowableness.

I think we can know nothingness through deep dreamless sleep. At the time we know nothing but when we wake up we can point to that and know that nothing was there… but then we have good and bad dreams which imo points to the light and the dark that’s born out of nothingness

The nothingness is nothing, is a way to talk , there is only you, the reality, what exist Nothingness is a realization that appears in meditation when the form dissapears, then the reality appears as absolute void, then you realize that even there is no form, always is you, the being, the absolute potential. That's existence.

Which is the 'you' that you say that is always permeating nothingness? So there are two things: You and Nothingness? Haven´t you consider the possibility you are actually the nothingness? 😉 Therefore, Nothing has the quality that it has no quality, no manifestation and non existence.

Non-existence does not exist because you are always permeating nothingness to the last corner (metaphorical) of infinity, since you are infinite. not finite, not end. never. you are, that's it. reality is, now, and now is always, now is what exists, the time, before and after, and in the now, are appearances. you can understand exactly why you are always, its obvious, its because there are no limits, then you are, and you are total, everything. it's absolutely impossible that it isn't, because there are no limits. you are unlimited. Its not something mysterious os alien, its you, now.

Pure non-existence is not so pure. Even when this fractal spiral of dreams within dreams is transcended and pure empty being or para-being, empty para-consciousness is left alone without any content I wouldn’t call pure non- existence. Non-existence of content - yes, why not, but non-existence as pure nothingness is just a concept. Even if you dissolve your egoic multilevel structure and there’s no experience of anything left, the awareness of pure being remains. And this primordial awareness is not en experience of course. So, I would be careful with such claims as non-existence. Pure non-existence cannot exist by elementary logic.

Do we go around chasing our arm, our eyes, the sun, night time, daytime, or anything that is already present. Anything that is inevitable or we know is there or sure is about to come, no. We're in a relaxed state about it. We don't think about our fingers unless it hurts; and we don't focus on whether or not daylight will show up in the morning, we go to sleep knowing the sun will rise whether it's a cloudy day or not. All these things have been neutralized within our awareness and have collapsed back into oneness. When nighttime appears within our awareness it's already perceived that daytime will follow. When daytime arises, nighttime collapses back from whence it came, back into nothingness. We don't ask where the hell did daytime go and go chasing for it, we are at peace knowing it will show up. That anxious feeling isn't arising. We're at peace with all those sorts of things. Knowing our arms are on our bodies, our eyes are there, the sky is there and that our hearts are beating. This is how things become one with the Universe. That trigger energy didn't disappear, it collapsed and blended in with the flow. So did the happy energy. We feel happiness for 5mins then the happiness blends itself and become one again. So does every emotion. They arise and subside within our awareness. They are still potentially there; but until there's focus and attention, they lie dormant. Happiness, joy, excitement etc, gives us such a dopamine hit that the mind doesn't want to let go of that feeling. We chase happiness because we're unsure. Unsure of it's existence. We need to see it to feel alive. Even sadness. We need these emotions to come out of their non-dual state for us to know we exist. If not, we'll feel dead inside. We will feel that nothingness. We don't want to feel like nothing; and because happiness is the feel good state, we chase it around like a cat chases a mouse. We need to feel alive. We also chase other emotions and feelings, but I'm concentrating on happiness here even though this goes for every emotion. Happiness has to collapse back into the flow of oneness because that's it's nature. It cannot be otherwise. We don't understand this, so we chase it down. It keeps coming back up, but not for long as it's a very short-lived sensation. Depression is happiness turned in unto itself. Picture an umbilical cord trapped and cannot free itself. Stopping happiness in it's tracks from birthing itself. These energies are free but the mind enslaves them. When the mind liberates itself and welcomes all these energies to flow and collapse as they are designed to do because of the Absolute nature of the Universal flow, then they're not trapped within the body. We chase after happiness because sadness is trapped within the body so is anxiety, confusion, anger, fear, jealousy, etc. All these emotions makes us feel contracted and constricted. So, we chase after what we believe will loosen them up, not realizing that they'll just surface again once the happy energy subsides. Ever notice happiness doesn't create a problem for us. It's because this energy is welcomed and shown love. We don't reject or hate it. It comes and goes more freely than the other ones we associate negativity with. Those one's get more attention and focus so awareness stays within this side of consciousness. They feel more intense. Anger feels more intense than happiness because of the attention we give it. We don't usually consciously chase anger because it doesn't feel good, but we are still chasing it in the silent pursuit for happiness. We will search out things and circumstances that makes us feel upset and bothered because that happiness dopamine hit wears off too quickly. Either way we're chasing emotions to make us feel something - something rather than nothing.

The ego or separate self is always trying to extract something from reality. But it’s made of the same nothingness as reality. It’s as if one part of the ocean was trying to extract another part of the ocean to keep for itself. Nothing trying to extract nothing from nothing. It’s hopeless. TurtlePee 2024

The problem is its not answerable there are people who have experienced it but its not something that can be answered its before anything you have ever experienced. We aren't concluding we are witnessing it. The void of nothingness is right in front of you there's just stuff in it right now. Anything we do will just be logic and this logic is based around this nothing we are talking about. If you see it words mean nothing, if you don't you will be looking for something in the words that's not there.

Void, emptiness, Nothingness. İt is like an air but it has no molecules therefore it is within everything. Therefore, it is nothing and everything at the same time.

Even if we say that everything originates from ‘nothing,’ the fact remains that we are still experiencing something: awareness, thoughts, emotions, and that experience is real to us in the moment. To me, the fact that we can think, feel, and be aware points to something more than just a void. Even if these things come from a source that seems unknowable or not tangible, they still exist as experiences within our consciousness. So, while nothingness may be the origin of everything, our awareness of it still exists as something we experience and cannot deny, even if we can’t fully explain it. It’s like saying that we can’t understand where consciousness comes from, but we cannot deny that we are conscious and experiencing.

@Spiritual Warfare The nothingness does exist. When you turn into nothing you can still think emote and feel but nothing will be doing it. You will see all these things are coming from a source that isn't there or cant be found, therefore it is nothingness and it is experiencing something and it exists. we think all the information is coming from outside in the world but everything that is experienced is coming from this source of nothing right now. When the outside world goes all sense perceptions go but everything else stays. All the invisible things in the universe that we perceive is coming from the source of nothing. Those dont go anywhere just the idea that these perceptions are coming from somewhere other than nothing is seen to be not true.

Big progress was made today. And I say today and not tonight because It happened in the morning after i had been awake for hours. I had 4 out of body experiences in a row, in a time span of about of an hour and a half , all on the way INTO sleep instead of coming out of sleep like I have usually done. WOAH! These have been the most vivid and realistic yet. I've learned and enjoyed so much ! I woke up around 7:30 AM and did house chores. 9 AM came and I felt a little tired and decided to lay down in bed, without the intention of falling asleep. I put on my overhead earplugs and eye mask. I was having a pretty clear mind and could imagine and think pretty clearly for my standard, so the intention was to enjoy that as I lay in bed. As I was thinking with my eyes closed, I was imagining and seeing things more and more vividly and what usually are just simple short thoughts and mental pictures, started becoming a burst of multiple Microsleep's. AND IT WAS IN ONE OF THOSE BRIEF MOMENTARY MICROSLEEP bursts that I realized that I was not in the " real physical world" but I was in an Imaginary world " , I inmediately became lucid and took controll over my body - Comment : It's absolutely essential to have a couple of goals when you get in the phase, or otherwise you will get lost in random stuff and lose consciousness and fall asleep. You must remain intentful and on the go. What naturally comes to me is my desire to interact with girls, which is very rewarding and authentic for me at this point. OBE #1 - I appeared into a house party at late night. There was a lot of people. I saw a girl I know from sight. She's extremely cute. I grabbed her by the hand, pulled her into me, looked her into her eyes and smiled. She gave me the biggest anime eyes and smiled back. I didn't want to rush having sex this time. I wanted to explore the interaction and realm more. By now I know having sex is prone to getting me out the phase because it's such a strong experience. I took off her top and we made out a lot. It felt very realistic both in feeling and sight. Something that's obvious but not so obvious is that for sex to happen I need to get hard, otherwise we are just grinding on eachother, so of course it won't happen until I'm excited. I didn't think it mattered in that realm but it does. There was a different girl close to us but she was with a guy. I reached out with my hand regardless and she smiled but she didn't join us. I'll try that one next time. We walked around the house and we walked towards a dark room. I told her I cant go there or I will dissapear. We turned around. She left me for a second. I said that if she wants to leave she's free to go. She said she doesn't want to leave me as she went to the turntable to put in a new CD. As I turned my back again to see her everything went black and I " woke up " A big insight I've had is that geometry is non-euclidean in that realm.If you look forward at a wall. Turn around 360 degrees and look again at the same wall, It won't neccesary be the same again. You can create a new reallity as the edges of your vision go into nothingness ( you may have a field of view of 200º horizontally at a time and 100º vertically , so you dont capture a full 360 of everything at once, therefore there are blind spots. as you look away and into these blindspots, a new reallity can generate ) Another take away is that consistency is not as consistent as in the physical world. If you try to go trhough a wall or a window, and it doesnt work the first time, it doesn't mean that if you try again it won't work. That one was mindblowing. It was just an assumption I was carrying from the " real world ". OBE#2 happened right after the first one. As I woke up, Inmediately tried to roll out of my body. I was in my room. It was very dim and dark. Darkness makes me get kicked out so I set the intention of making it bright as I touched and palpaped my body to make sensations more vivid. It worked. I wanted to get out of my room through my window. The mosquito net didnt let me ( again ) . I tried again. Nothing. I tried again, this time I went through! Haha! What a funny logic. I was in my garden and I started flying. Initially I knew the area ( my neighbourhood ) but eventually everything was different ( non-euclidean geometry was sick here ). I jumped on top of my house, and on the other side was a 300 meter fall down!!!! I was scared but I jumped anyways. If I didn't manage to calm myself down I'd get kicked out. I started fluing at a speed of 200km/h or so. It was amazing. I could see everything and feel the cold wind through my body. I was flying around the town looking for a woman but all the houses were empty. I realized I need to consistently check for my entire body . Sometimes I get kicked out for aparently no reason but that this time as I was flying 200km/h, I looked down and my legs were tied up in a pretzel. OFC! I had just jumped from 300 meters high lol. It was okay until I had noticed it. So making sure my entire " suble body " is doing fine is important I guess OBE #3 was more of a dream didn't go entirely lucid. I exit my body but sort of lost consciousness and was just going on autopilot. I was fighting a skunk that was running around my room with a shovel. I accidentally picked it up with it, flipped it into the air and it landed on me. that " woke me up ". There was one more, but I dont remember right now. These memories sometimes fade if you dont write them down inmediately, and later throughout the day they hit you out of nowhere. I want to try to astral project inside the astral projection. I forgot to try that. Or as I feel I'm fading out, close my eyes and try to teleport somewhere. Or Imagining that protective bubble I was talking about , or " rooting down " or holding onto objects . I want to try again. I'll keep y'all updated.

I like to think of reality as an infinite spectrum, with the absolute at both end, and the relative everything thing in between: So at the lowest end of the spectrum everything is quanta. Then the spectrum moves up into energy, sub atomic, atomic, molecular, cellular (hi my nerve cell) organic (hi my brain), animal, human, behavioral, archetypal, emotional, sociological, psychological, soulful, spiritual. Then at the highest end of spectrum everything is divine consciousness. Outside of both ends is nothingness. Within is everythingness. This model works for me. The divisions, like all divisions are arbitrary.

@PurpleTree so you are forced by nothingness..., so be it. If you ok with that I am ok as well😊. Good night (it's late here)😘.

seemingly appearing via the nothingness of seem less appearances in a desire to have a "separate" forum. For reasons of nothingness sharing's thru the seemingly appearing of words that describing nothing as it goes on and on thru the vastness of seemingly endless loops of appearances disappearing as we scrolling endlessly sharing nothingness.Oh God I'm Lost!

Non-duality is something that can latch on to the egoic mind identity and turn it into another theory, idea and concept. Another religion. I try not to focus on the stuff that can make way for the egoic mind to make an identity out of it. Would be cool though, so we can have a place where all the non-dualists can be ridiculed for our no one, illusion and nothingness talk. The Absolute sub-forum for non-dualists.

1. We who are aware of this world are the only ego All questions can ultimately be resolved only in silence, but to enable us to experience the silence that we actually are, Bhagavan gave us teachings in words, so until we lose ourself in absolute silence, his words are our guide. He taught us that everything that we experience other than ourself is just a dream, and that just as in dream there is only one ego who projects and perceives the dream world and all the people in it, in this dream that we now mistake to be waking we are the only ego who has projected this world and is perceiving it. This teaching is called ēka-jīva-vāda (the contention that there is only one jīva or ego), and once when Bhagavan was explaining it, one of the devotees who was present there asked him, ‘Which one of us here is the one jīva?’, to which he replied, ‘You are that’. Then another devotee asked, ‘What about me?’, and to him also Bhagavan said, ‘You are that’. What should we understand from this? When we are dreaming we seem to be just one among many people in the dream world, and we assume that each other person is a jīva or ego just like us and that each of them is therefore perceiving the world just as we are. However, as soon as we wake up, we understand that all those other people we saw in our dream were just our own mental projections and that none of them were actually perceiving or aware of anything. Likewise in our present state all the other people we see are just our own mental projections, so it is only in our view that they seem to be perceiving the world just as we are. This is why if we ask Bhagavan who is the one jīva, he will always say ‘You are that’, because though we cannot know whether anyone else is actually aware of anything, we know that we are aware of this world, so we must be the one jīva or ego that he was talking about. 2. Uḷḷadu Nāṟpadu verse 26: investigating what this ego is is giving up everything This ēka-jīva-vāda is clearly implied in so many of his teachings. For example, in verse 26 of Uḷḷadu Nāṟpadu he says: அகந்தையுண் டாயி னனைத்துமுண் டாகு மகந்தையின் றேலின் றனைத்து — மகந்தையே யாவுமா மாதலால் யாதிதென்று நாடலே யோவுதல் யாவுமென வோர். ahandaiyuṇ ḍāyi ṉaṉaittumuṇ ḍāhu mahandaiyiṉ ḏṟēliṉ ḏṟaṉaittu — mahandaiyē yāvumā mādalāl yādideṉḏṟu nādalē yōvudal yāvumeṉa vōr. பதச்சேதம்: அகந்தை உண்டாயின், அனைத்தும் உண்டாகும்; அகந்தை இன்றேல், இன்று அனைத்தும். அகந்தையே யாவும் ஆம். ஆதலால், யாது இது என்று நாடலே ஓவுதல் யாவும் என ஓர். Padacchēdam (word-separation): ahandai uṇḍāyiṉ, aṉaittum uṇḍāhum; ahandai iṉḏṟēl, iṉḏṟu aṉaittum. ahandai-y-ē yāvum ām. ādalāl, yādu idu eṉḏṟu nādal-ē ōvudal yāvum eṉa ōr. அன்வயம்: அகந்தை உண்டாயின், அனைத்தும் உண்டாகும்; அகந்தை இன்றேல், அனைத்தும் இன்று. யாவும் அகந்தையே ஆம். ஆதலால், யாது இது என்று நாடலே யாவும் ஓவுதல் என ஓர். Anvayam (words rearranged in natural prose order): ahandai uṇḍāyiṉ, aṉaittum uṇḍāhum; ahandai iṉḏṟēl, aṉaittum iṉḏṟu. yāvum ahandai-y-ē ām. ādalāl, yādu idu eṉḏṟu nādal-ē yāvum ōvudal eṉa ōr. English translation: If the ego comes into existence, everything comes into existence; if the ego does not exist, everything does not exist. [Hence] the ego itself is everything. Therefore, know that investigating what this [ego] is alone is giving up everything. Which ego is he referring to here? The one and only ego there is, namely ourself, so we are that. However this one ego is not what we actually are, but only what we seem to be, so if we investigate ourself keenly enough, we will see what we actually are and hence this one ego will vanish forever, since it does not actually exist, just as an illusory snake would vanish if we were to look at it carefully enough to see that it is actually just a rope. Therefore, since the seeming existence of everything else depends upon the seeming existence of ourself as this ego, and since this ego will cease to exist if we investigate it keenly enough, Bhagavan says, ‘ஆதலால், யாது இது என்று நாடலே ஓவுதல் யாவும்’ (ādalāl, yādu idu eṉḏṟu nādalē yāvum ōvudal), which means, ‘Therefore, investigating what this [ego] is alone is giving up everything’. 3. Upadēśa Undiyār verse 28: when everything else ceases to exist, what remains is only beginningless, infinite and undivided sat-cit-ānanda However, what he means by ‘everything’ in this context is all phenomena, and when the ego and all phenomena cease to exist what remains is only ourself as we actually are, which is anādi (beginningless), ananta (endless, limitless or infinite), akhaṇḍa (unbroken or undivided) sat-cit-ānanda (being-awareness-bliss), as he says in verse 28 of Upadēśa Undiyār: தனாதியல் யாதெனத் தான்றெரி கிற்பின் னனாதி யனந்தசத் துந்தீபற வகண்ட சிதானந்த முந்தீபற. taṉādiyal yādeṉat tāṉḏṟeri hiṯpiṉ ṉaṉādi yaṉantasat tundīpaṟa vakhaṇḍa cidāṉanda mundīpaṟa. பதச்சேதம்: தனாது இயல் யாது என தான் தெரிகில், பின் அனாதி அனந்த சத்து அகண்ட சித் ஆனந்தம். Padacchēdam (word-separation): taṉādu iyal yādu eṉa tāṉ terihil, piṉ aṉādi aṉanta sattu akhaṇḍa cit āṉandam. அன்வயம்: தான் தனாது இயல் யாது என தெரிகில், பின் அனாதி அனந்த அகண்ட சத்து சித் ஆனந்தம். Anvayam (words rearranged in natural prose order): tāṉ taṉādu iyal yādu eṉa terihil, piṉ aṉādi aṉanta akhaṇḍa sattu cit āṉandam. English translation: If one knows what the nature of oneself is, then [what will exist and shine is only] beginningless, endless [or infinite] and undivided sat-cit-ānanda [being-awareness-bliss]. Therefore what remains when everything ceases to exist is not nothingness but the infinite fullness of sat-cit-ānanda, which is what we actually are and what alone is real, even when other things seem to exist. 4. Uḷḷadu Nāṟpadu verse 12: we are not nothingness but pure awareness This is why Bhagavan says in verse 12 of Uḷḷadu Nāṟpadu: அறிவறி யாமையு மற்றதறி வாமே யறியும துண்மையறி வாகா — தறிதற் கறிவித்தற் கன்னியமின் றாயவிர்வ தாற்றா னறிவாகும் பாழன் றறி. aṟivaṟi yāmaiyu maṯṟadaṟi vāmē yaṟiyuma duṇmaiyaṟi vāhā — daṟitaṟ kaṟivittaṟ kaṉṉiyamiṉ ḏṟāyavirva dāṯṟā ṉaṟivāhum pāṙaṉ ṟaṟi. பதச்சேதம்: அறிவு அறியாமையும் அற்றது அறிவு ஆமே. அறியும் அது உண்மை அறிவு ஆகாது. அறிதற்கு அறிவித்தற்கு அன்னியம் இன்றாய் அவிர்வதால், தான் அறிவு ஆகும். பாழ் அன்று. அறி. Padacchēdam (word-separation): aṟivu aṟiyāmaiyum aṯṟadu aṟivu āmē. aṟiyum adu uṇmai aṟivu āhādu. aṟidaṟku aṟivittaṟku aṉṉiyam iṉḏṟāy avirvadāl, tāṉ aṟivu āhum. pāṙ aṉḏṟu. aṟi. English translation: What is devoid of knowledge and ignorance [about anything other than oneself] is actually knowledge [or awareness]. That which knows [anything other than oneself] is not real knowledge [or awareness]. Since it shines without another for knowing or for causing to know [or causing to be known], oneself is [real] knowledge [or awareness]. It is not a void [or nothingness]. Know [or be aware]. Therefore you need not have any fear about ‘total and complete nothingness’, because no such thing exists, and because when the ego ceases to exist there will be no one left to experience even a seeming nothingness, since what remains then is only what we actually are, which is pure and infinite self-awareness (awareness that is not aware of anything other than itself). (In this connection you may find it useful to read a more detailed article I wrote on this subject: Self-knowledge is not a void (śūnya).) 5. Uḷḷadu Nāṟpadu verse 31: the jñāni is aware of nothing other than itself, so our mind cannot grasp its perspective Regarding your question about my remark that in the view of the jñāni he alone exists, though we mistake the jñāni to be a person, it is not actually any such thing. As Bhagavan often used to say, jñāna alone is the jñāni, which means that pure self-awareness (ātma-jñāna) alone is what is aware of itself. Since nothing other than pure self-awareness exists in its view, our outward-facing mind is unable to comprehend it adequately, which is why Bhagavan says in verse 31 of Uḷḷadu Nāṟpadu: தன்னை யழித்தெழுந்த தன்மயா னந்தருக் கென்னை யுளதொன் றியற்றுதற்குத் — தன்னையலா தன்னிய மொன்று மறியா ரவர்நிலைமை யின்னதென் றுன்ன லெவன். taṉṉai yaṙitteṙunda taṉmayā ṉandaruk keṉṉai yuḷadoṉ ḏṟiyaṯṟudaṟkut — taṉṉaiyalā taṉṉiya moṉḏṟu maṟiyā ravarnilaimai yiṉṉadeṉ ḏṟuṉṉa levaṉ. பதச்சேதம்: தன்னை அழித்து எழுந்த தன்மயானந்தருக்கு என்னை உளது ஒன்று இயற்றுதற்கு? தன்னை அலாது அன்னியம் ஒன்றும் அறியார்; அவர் நிலைமை இன்னது என்று உன்னல் எவன்? Padacchēdam (word-separation): taṉṉai aṙittu eṙunda taṉmaya-āṉandarukku eṉṉai uḷadu oṉḏṟu iyaṯṟudaṟku? taṉṉai alādu aṉṉiyam oṉḏṟum aṟiyār; avar nilaimai iṉṉadu eṉḏṟu uṉṉal evaṉ? அன்வயம்: தன்னை அழித்து எழுந்த தன்மயானந்தருக்கு இயற்றுதற்கு என்னை ஒன்று உளது? தன்னை அலாது அன்னியம் ஒன்றும் அறியார்; அவர் நிலைமை இன்னது என்று உன்னல் எவன்? Anvayam (words rearranged in natural prose order): taṉṉai aṙittu eṙunda taṉmaya-āṉandarukku iyaṯṟudaṟku eṉṉai oṉḏṟu uḷadu? taṉṉai alādu aṉṉiyam oṉḏṟum aṟiyār; avar nilaimai iṉṉadu eṉḏṟu uṉṉal evaṉ? English translation: For those who are [blissfully immersed in and as] tanmayānanda [‘happiness composed of that’, namely our real self], which rose [as ‘I am I’] destroying themself [the ego], what one [action] exists for doing? They do not know [or experience] anything other than themself; [so] who can [or how to] conceive their state as ‘it is such’? As you rightly point out, there is no person remaining there to say what the perspective of the jñāni is, so if we want to know what its perspective actually is, we must turn within to see ourself and thereby to merge in and as the pure self-awareness (ātma-jñāna) that we actually are. 6. Uḷḷadu Nāṟpadu verse 33: the ‘I’ that rises to say ‘I have seen’ has seen nothing Regarding the people whom David Godman interviewed in some of his videos, who you say ‘were smiling and talking about their wonderful experiences as when their ego was destroyed’, there is a saying in Tamil, ‘கண்டவர் விண்டில்லை; விண்டவர் கண்டில்லை’ (kaṇḍavar viṇḍillai; viṇḍavar kaṇḍillai), which means ‘those who have seen do not say [or open their mouth]; those who say [or open their mouth] have not seen’. And as Bhagavan says in verse 33 of Uḷḷadu Nāṟpadu: என்னை யறியேனா னென்னை யறிந்தேனா னென்ன னகைப்புக் கிடனாகு — மென்னை தனைவிடய மாக்கவிரு தானுண்டோ வொன்றா யனைவரனு பூதியுண்மை யால். eṉṉai yaṟiyēṉā ṉeṉṉai yaṟindēṉā ṉeṉṉa ṉahaippuk kiḍaṉāhu — meṉṉai taṉaiviḍaya mākkaviru tāṉuṇḍō voṉḏṟā yaṉaivaraṉu bhūtiyuṇmai yāl. பதச்சேதம்: ‘என்னை அறியேன் நான்’, ‘என்னை அறிந்தேன் நான்’ என்னல் நகைப்புக்கு இடன் ஆகும். என்னை? தனை விடயம் ஆக்க இரு தான் உண்டோ? ஒன்று ஆய் அனைவர் அனுபூதி உண்மை ஆல். Padacchēdam (word-separation): ‘eṉṉai aṟiyēṉ nāṉ’, ‘eṉṉai aṟindēṉ nāṉ’ eṉṉal nahaippukku iḍaṉ āhum. eṉṉai? taṉai viḍayam ākka iru tāṉ uṇḍō? oṉḏṟu āy aṉaivar aṉubhūti uṇmai āl. அன்வயம்: ‘நான் என்னை அறியேன்’, ‘நான் என்னை அறிந்தேன்’ என்னல் நகைப்புக்கு இடன் ஆகும். என்னை? தனை விடயம் ஆக்க இரு தான் உண்டோ? அனைவர் அனுபூதி உண்மை ஒன்றாய்; ஆல். Anvayam (words rearranged in natural prose order): ‘nāṉ eṉṉai aṟiyēṉ’, ‘nāṉ eṉṉai aṟindēṉ’ eṉṉal nahaippukku iḍaṉ āhum. eṉṉai? taṉai viḍayam ākka iru tāṉ uṇḍō? aṉaivar aṉubhūti uṇmai oṉḏṟu āy; āl. English translation: Saying ‘I do not know myself’ [or] ‘I have known myself’ is ground for ridicule. Why? To make oneself an object known, are there two selves? Because being one is the truth of everyone’s experience. Therefore we should be very sceptical about anyone who claims ‘I have known myself’ or ‘I have experienced what remains after the ego is annihilated’. As you rightly point out, if the ego has been eradicated, who remains there to say ‘I’ have experienced anything? Whatever ‘I’ makes such claims can only be the ego, because what we actually are is infinite self-awareness, other than which nothing actually exists, so how could it make any such claims, and to whom could it make them? Therefore as Bhagavan says, all such claims are ‘ground for ridicule’. However, we need not concern ourself with the seeming self-ignorance or egotism of others, because those others seem to exist only in the outward-turned view of ourself as this ego, so all we need be concerned with is investigating ourself in order to find out what we ourself actually are and thereby free ourself from the clutches of this self-ignorant ego that we now seem to be.

@Princess Arabia Yes, I know all this. I don't however want to write long posts trying to explain or justify God as Nothingness (even though even this is not accurate). So I explain it quickly but some people misunderstand that. It's been stated again and again, God is the infinite void from which everything arises. We know this, so I'd rather not go into this again and again when trying to write a quick post.

When moment of dying comes remember my words. Thought create fear and time. There is nothing else. If at moment of death you are conscious of this and you are able to not generate fear you Will stay in Yourself and attain mukti/Nirvana/nothingness permanently. If you are not able then you Will reincarnate and Will have to suffer another cycle like most suckers 🤣😅 So heres a Gift of me for you 👑Take advantage of it that Im Still embodied and sharing exclusive wisdom. This Will not be forever. I have a departure date so take the train before its gone. Because The point of a Guru like me is that you dont have to do any of the soul grueling sadhana he has done. He does It for you. The Only thing you have to do is to tie Yourself to him like there is no other thing worthwhile getting tied to. When moment is aproppiate I will cut the cord for you. You dont have to worry about that.

No, it's because you are not ready to let go the self. That's why Leo can do 1000 times 5 meo and he says: you are god dreaming the reality for love. Because he open himself to the unlimited but the self is still there. No drug can dissolve the self, it's absolutely impossible. Only the self can be ready for dropping itself in the nothingness. Usually the self is going to use any trick to preserve itself, becoming god or anything else

It doesn't matter if you realize no self and nothingness you still need to survive as the human you are dreaming yourself to be. That's if you care about survival at least. If you go without food for days your stomach isn't going to care if you're enlightened.

The nothingness is Everywhere at all times and is in every thing. So, yes the nothingness is there in the field. You're asking me to point to the nothingness in the room, but you can't even locate or point to a room yourself. Whatever you point to will be an object in the room. How can nothing be pointed to, You cannot point to anything physical. What you'll be pointing to are parts of that physical thing. Keep pointing and deconstructing and you arrive at nothing. Everything is made of nothing. Go to the atoms. What are they made of. Scientists doesn't have an answer because there is nothing there. It's all mental structures.