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Yes perhaps there is something to that ? So essentially we are the non experience, experiencing everything else. That which is changeless must experience change in order for there to be reality i guess, nothingness experiences everythingness

I am having a hard time understanding the philosophy of this group as semantics often get into the way but could someone please clarify some things for me? It seems like the "levels" one goes through, in the path to enlightenment are something along the lines of surrendering all concepts (the self, the body, thought, the mind) and eventually you will reach a state where you are experiencing "pure being" which some call "infinite love" - but then I have also heard that there is a step further, when even the observer is dissolved into nothingness, in which case, why is love the true self? isn't it nothingness? The reason why I ask is because I often hear enlightened ones speaking about things like "everything is love" or that "love is what binds the universe together", but it is difficult for me to understand why love has this position of superiority, as opposed to its opposite, which is hate and/or ego consciousness. I guess why I am asking is because I want to know how to better explain to others that the true self is "infinite love", rather than the true self being "Nothing" and love and ego/separation radiate equally from this point. How would you explain to someone that love is the real state, in a world filled equally with suffering, pain, hatred etc? (I understand that when you meditate, and clear your mind, you gravitate towards love, but that doesn't mean it is the "true self", it only means that it is another state of many. Plus, most people don't meditate so who is to say that infinite love is the natural or true state, when you could argue that ego consciousness is actually the true state, and infinite love is a heightened state gained through meditation). On a side note, Did Buddha ever speak about love? Because it seems to be absent from the mainstream doctrine at least. It seems more like that the true self is simply lack of attachment (even to the people around you) until you realize that all is nothing. He did speak about compassion, but Buddhist literature seems void of the concept of "dissolving the ego to unlock selfless love" while it seems to be the core message of say, Christianity.

@James123 Conciousness is experience. and there is no limit to what experience can be. You die every night and create a dream character and objects, there is no limit to experience hence infinite. Why reality is consistent is because of memory, for remembering the day before. Sure we are the unmoved being behind all experience but it is still conciousness nature, to dream. To experience. There is no limit to it. Not knowing vs knowing is a duality which is not valid. Deny knowing all you want but it is inherent in being. Reality = experience Conciousness = reality = experience. And according to your logic you are an infant and do not understand anything. You are knowing all the time without an effort. Just as you understand my words here without an effort. Nothingness avoids its own nothingness and void do you get it? Nothingness is infinite forms. There is no end to creation since Nothingness is endless. Everything we do is to avoid the void or else there would be no creation. We are kids in an infinite candy store. But ultimatly we are beyond experiences, changeless reality is what we are

What exactly does science say about reality? What does it say about consciousness? Matter? Time? Being and nothingness? It seems to me that you are actually bying the materialist paradigm, not "science". You are veiling your metaphysical assumptions as science and objectivity. There is philosophy beyond scientific method. For example, what is direct experience? This cannot be answered by scientific method, as science appears within direct experience. I believe the problem here is what you think spirituality is. Spirituality is not really just thinking and philosophizing. It's not about knowing and being right. At least for me, it would make a lot more sense to think of spirituality as a feeling-thing. What makes you connected to life & reality? What gives you that childlike wonder? What makes your body fill with joy and true depth? If it is science, so be it. The real center of spirituality is feeling, the connection to the depths of reality. Science is just the tool.

There are moments of oneness with the Beloved, absolutely ecstasy and bliss. That is nothingness. And this nothingness loves you, responds to you, fulfills you utterly and yet there is nothing there. You flow out like a river without diminishing. Irina Tweedie (Sufi Master)

Reality is Love. How could it be otherwise, when you think about it? I mean what IS *THIS* really? Why is there something? Why isn't everything just absolute pure nothingness/chaotic energy? Why did "The Big Bang" occur? Why did it occur in such a way -- with specifically fine-tuned natural laws/universal constants -- that allowed it to transform into galaxies with stars and planets and even planets spawning complex, sentient, intelligent, even fucking self-reflecting life? After all, you and I, from a material standpoint/realist-standpoint are just fucking atoms. Atoms. Dead matter. There exist no "life-matter". Your carbon atoms are the same carbon atoms found in stones and dirt. But yet, these carbon-atoms, these delicately arranged dance/patterns/structures of protons and electrons turned into something that is capable of self-awareness. How FUCKING AMAZING is that? WHY IS IT HAPPENING? And now that it is happening, don't you think it makes logically sense that it is optimized for Love? I mean why would it be optimized for anything other than Love? I mean I know athiests/rationalists/scientists likes to say that yes, it is interesting that the fundamental constants are what they are, cos even slight deviations would mean physical life isn't possible. But then they still say it's just random:D And yeah I get it, life is pretty brutal at times. Think about how brutal it was 5000 years ago when we lived in cages. Or how brutal it is right now for the african kids who starve every night. It's fucking brutal man. But it has to be. Brutal/at-ease is a duality that's ultimately just Love. Just like all other dualities. Hitler-Ghandi. Evil-Goodness. Hate-Love. It's all just Love man. All of it. It's a realization. Not a belief. And I can't communicate it to you, cos it cannot be communicated. Only felt/realized. But I still tried cos im a sick fuck

There is no physical death. Think about it, if you were to "physically die", where would you go? You'd be in the same place you've always been at but you just end your dream that you created for yourself. Enlightenment is the recognition that you don't need to die to die. Because there LITERALLY is no death. The ultimate goal is always to merge closer to god. More honestly, more truthfully, more lovingly. Once you recognize yourself as god and trace all the steps back to the beginning of the universe, you realize you imagined it all to keep yourself stuck in the illusion. You go so far that existence literally ceases to exist, just pure nothingness, pure god, pure love. Yet it's an infinite existence so it will keep dreaming for eternity, and there you have an infinite endless game of reality. So in a sense, there is no endgame other than to know god.

And yet, my shadow-denier-brother, you are indeed turning not-knowing into an ideology by being so stubborn/slightly narrow-minded in your views ? You see, "I" don't disagree with "you". I actually fully agree with you! And what a relief to find out the separate self is just an imaginary thought/idea. What a relief it is to find out that birth and death are illusory. What a gigantic relief it is to find out everything is just nothingness and that what I truly am is just 'isness", Nothingness, Love, God, The Dao That Can't Be Spoken! What a relief! Let's swim and bathe in this great sea of Nothingness, of not-knowing, of being completely at peace, completely free. Let us celebrate! Or just celebrate! There is no 'us', hell, there isn't even anything to celebrate! And "to celebrate" is just another thought! There is nothing to do, nowhere to get to. Everything just is. Perfection. Absolute Divine Perfection. No. Not even that. Words are just pointers. Let's not name it... "Reality is: ... *smashes a gong-gong* ... and we won't give it a name" said Alan Watts. (And yet, here we are on this forum. What da fuck are we doing? Oh yes, "I" forgot: I don't exist, neither does James, nothing is going on here!) __________ When you say that this dream, this life, this existence, this magical maya-fantasy -- full of dualities such as birth & death, love and hate, success and failure, music and silence -- is *just* a thought, you simultaneously seem to deny the insane amount of intelligence and absolute pure magic behind it all. All paths that doesn't lead to the Heart are illusory/falsehood/not-it. James, you are like the dude in this cartoon: ? Isn't it insanely profound to think about what all this is (even if it's seen as nothingness) ?? Isn't it insanely profound that it's possible to be completely unconsciously lost in all this? Like an actor getting so immersed in her role, she forgets she's acting. And what's even more magical is that it is possible to awaken from it all. To see it all for what it is: play, Leela, nothingness, God, Love, pure Infinite Consciousness. Isn't it mystical as fuck that it's even possible for this 'realization' to occur? You seem to try really hard to 'take the magic out of' // 'deny the magic of' REALiTY/EXiSTENCE ... why? I mean, why is there anything (even if it is nothing) ... Why? How does it work? What are the mechanics involved? Does it serve any purpose? "Camus said there is only really one serious philosophical question, which is whether or not to commit suicide. I think there are four or five serious philosophical questions: The first one is: Who started it? The second is: Are we going to make it? The third is: Where are we going to put it? The fourth is: Who's going to clean up? And the fifth: Is it serious?" - Alan Watts

"When there is not-knownng there is not not-knowing" , hehe, I like it. But when there is knowing, there id not knowing! ??? I have learned lots of things. I have for once learned to read and write in English, otherwise "We" couldn't have this discussion! But it's true: in a sense I have nothing learned, cos there is no I (except the God-Nothingness-I we could say), and all our words here are just meaningless banter! But if you ask me to imagine what is left, if I unlearn all my learning, then this is a mentally exercise, and what is left is some imaginary concept/idea of not having learned anything... and that isn't "it" ! But it's a fun and probably useful pointer/exercise to "get" to that which can't be attained, but what always IS. Peace ❤️

Hey brother ❤️ The point is When there is not knowing, there is no such a thing as knowing or not knowing, duality or non duality, nothingness or thingness, being or not being . As before so called birth. Just take an example as you never learn anything, including yourself, what is left?

@James123 whats up brother ? It's funny to see these discussions between you and Leo. It is like two people standing looking at a coin ('Truth'), and one saying "the coin is heads!" and the other: "the coin is tails!" ... But of course the coin is neither, but both! It seems like Leo's view is slightly more embracing of both sides of the coin. But anyway. All dualities must merge/collapse into one, including the dualities: nothingness-thingness being-notbeing notknowing-knowing It might be a mindfuck for ya, but it turns out, that ultimately, not-knowing and knowing are completely identical. What a relief! Oneness remains. God forbid separation ? *non* - *duality* you know! Or don't know. It doesn't matter --- yet it does!! ? But I get ya. For people stuck in "knowing things" (most ppl these days), they need to "learn to unlearn" & to appreciate and practice not-knowing, if they want to get anywhere spiritually/emotionally. Once you see the power and beauty of pure beingness, not-knowing, you can then once again incorporate 'knowing' into your "life", cos you now see that the two opposites are One. Not to worship Leo, but I think the guy understands the perspective (not-knowing), you're speaking from. After all Leo's favorite book to bring on a remote island is The Book of Not Knowing by Ralston... with some DMT crystals sprinkled inside the cover of course, preferably pluggable crystals ?

@CBDinfused I do not claim to speak for the philosophy of any group, but I can tell you of this from being a human Being. For starters, there are no "levels" and while various models of various things have their place, you would do well to transcend them. Next, very simply, hatred is divisive and love is unifying. True Love of course contains and loves all hatred which in this context then ceases to be. Ultimate Love is like that with all else, it surrounds and swallows up everything in Creation to the point of collapsing all in destruction by revealing unification. Powerful hatred is also a great, but far lesser, destroyer and is a dark unifier but through division and to the deluded extreme of only hatered of hatred remaining of an egoic identity. Because of this hatered can be used as an effective, although conventionally very dangerous and profoundly unhealthy, tool by the spiritual seeker. Ultimately though, hatred cannot overcome itself or Love, while Love can overcome hatred and all else by integration, unification, and beautiful creative destruction to the point of being an absolute unity of infinite Nothingness. A bit more practically speaking, a major defining aspect of being awake to/as Love is to be in love with Creation, to be selflessly in love with YourSelf. Have you ever loved a work of art? Has a work of art of any sort ever brought you tears of joy? Have you ever loved a human being as a work of art and more? Has the shape, the intricacies, the totality, the body-mind and spirit of another ever made you forget yourself and your world? Have you ever felt orgasmic-like bliss unrelated to sexual stimulation, but instead from deep bodily embraced love of any person, place, or thing? Has your sense of self ever dissolved in your love of another like a partner, a friend, your offspring, your sibling, or maybe even a pet? To be awake as/in/to Love is like these things. You are the Everything that is Nothing that is Love itself. In being a human being Love, all you encounter is like a beautiful living loving work of divine art. From flowers and sunsets to death and dung, all can bring tears of joy, ecstatic orgasmic transcendence, and self-dissolution to Nothing, to no personal subjects or objects, to only Self being Love. This is Your stateless state, as in not an altered state of seemingly human consciousness, but the Actual base state of formless Consciousness itself that plays at being your humanity and all else. It is the Meta-Subject that is You and there are no objects, only Everything that is Nothing that is Love as Absolute Unity. And all of this can seemingly take place in Being a human, but when aware of it One will know better, lol I hope this makes at least some sense?

I did not say that. I said that it is a bit odd if this nothingness can imagine conciousness/awareness and is not concious/aware itself, how does that work? Is it really possibly to imagine awareness? Try to think of awareness or imagine it. should be no easy task ?‍♂️

Hehe... Or maybe it's the other way around Find out for yourself which is which. But there is no contradiction between Truth, Love, God, and Nothingness. These are all facets of the same exact thing. All the greatest mystics teach about Love. Don't poo-poo that clue

@Adamq8 why would you assume nothingness is something separate from consciousness?

This is a misunderstanding, because by that definition simply having a body and living are also a form of ego. If somebody is fully enlightened but also tends to to the body in a particular way, there does not have to be an identity involved. If we are limiting ourselves to higher states of consciousness from the crown chakra, which is one dimension of experience, whether we refer to it through no-dual language as nothingness, reality, love and so on, then we won't necessarily selflessly embrace other modalities of life and energy and attend to them in a relative manner, as a multi-faceted energy form. Living as nothingness, reality, love and embodying higher levels of reality is not a practical solution for all of the world's problems on the outset, because like the world, our physical bodies comprise of pranic physiology and the five elements, lifetimes of karmic impurities on various levels which exist regardless of our state of consciousness. If we are in touch with things in this spiritually holistic and sober sense, the realistic pace at which we can help ourselves and other people, especially those outside of the spiritual community who are not willing to immediately transcend everything, will be more obvious. It is important to attain to non-dual states through ground up purification, so that energy can function from other dimensions without an identity. I agree with you that prana is a duality, masculine and feminine, the five elements, these are all dualities, but it is our purity in prana and the elements which determines how dualistic our experience of life is. Taking 5-MeO-DMT and transcending the karma existing in these physiological bodies is not a scientific approach, and we risk lopsiding our spiritual development. Look at the Dhyanalinga for example, it has no karma or identity, but it is reverberating as all of the 7 chakras and dimensions of life, it is a fully developed energetic form with the non-dual dimension of sahasrara at the highest possible peak Likewise, the energetic forms of the Divine Mother do not have an ego or identity, they exist as deities in the form of the pure five elements, so that people can surrender and make use of them to purify themselves. Language makes this difficult. Isha's practices work to strip you of your identity very early on, which is also what I meant when I said that they allow you to function from subtler energetic sheathes, to purify and transcend gross forms of karma in mind and body

Nothingness is Love. Absolute Love hardly ever looks like relative love, but sometimes it can.

That makes sense, the point that I was making and the point that Sadhguru makes in referring to Saints and Gurus is that Saints limit themselves to realization and awareness, transcending grosser dimensions of energy and in essence neglecting large segments of life, so to speak. It isn't that techniques which are taught in Hinduism or Sadhguru are not transcendental in nature or geared towards realization, any potent practice will cultivate the necessary awareness and energy to transcend the self and attain to realizations of nothingness, non-duality and so forth, and this is one powerful facet of Isha's practices In Hinduism duality exists up to Agna, or the third eye, the crown chakra and beyond it are where higher consciousness and states of selflessness take place, but it is approaching spiritual growth with only one end of the stick and exaggerating the importance of realization alone, and not coupling our conscious experience with a deeper purification of the energetic bodies, which causes us to restrict ourselves to relatively disconnected, higher modes of consciousness This is why Shakti Chalana Kriya in Isha is coupled with Shoonya, an experiential initiation into nothingness. Likewise, purifying the elements with Bhuta Shuddhi and balancing them within the system causes you to transcend them. And also, with Hatha yoga and practices which purify the pranic body, total balance and synchronicity with the rest of the solar system leads to an undifferentiated and neutral state in which the five elements are transcended. The spinal channel, Sushumna, is neutralizing and lacks all dualistic qualities, and people who attain to Sushumna are refrerred to as being in a state of nirguna (lacking all qualities). The Shambhavi Mahamudra initiation is intended to awaken Sushumna, and during the programme Sadhguru will quote the Shiva sutras in which Shiva describes the quality and importance of Sushumna So it isn't that realization, selflessness, transcending the senses and so on is neglected in Isha's practices, it is just seen as a rudimentary and necessary step for us to be able to purify the many dimensions of life and our Being, and that is where the real work lies Sadhguru adds to his description of Saints and Gurus by saying this -

Claiming that the practices which Sadhguru offers are 'weaksauce' or anything of the sort comes from misunderstanding spiritual sadhana and the nature of purification. Our Being consists of different sheathes of energy which are connected to reality from different dimensions, transcending those modalities with a psychedelic like 5-MeO-DMT is not a way to tend to or purify those aspects of reality, if anything we're likely to neglect them if we only focus on short-term alteration of consciousness through substances or practices The purpose of every Isha practice is to put present and past life karma on fast forward by purifying the energy physiology from the different sheathes, purification of the mind is only seen as a consequence of this and no importance is even placed upon the mind or higher states of consciousness in yoga because it is the purification of our gross and sober state which determines how free our consciousness becomes in any permanent regard. Substances, excluding a few which are more rooted in gross dimensions and the earth element such as Ayahuasca and mushrooms, only tend to higher consciousness and states of mind and it can be very easy to neglect the rest of reality through that approach. Purification through Ayahuasca and mushrooms is likewise quite unreliable and arbitrary, and that is why yogic practices which purify the energetic sheathes are important. Yoga is rooted in the purification of the five elements and purification of prana (solar and lunar energy). Our sober connection to the purity of the five elements determines how pure our body and mind are. Solar and lunar energy are represented as Father and Mother in yoga because those are the energy channels/intermediaries through which our actual Father and Mother transmit information to us to condition and create the body genetically. The five elements are the very basis of creation and without them we would not exist, on top of that it is solar and lunar energy which creates and encodes life to take a physical form, so both of these dimensions are extremely important in Hinduism. By purifying our connection to the solar system through Hatha yoga we are purifying our connection to the original Father and Mother, the original source of our physical manifestation, and this purifies grosser dimensions of information and conditioning in the mind and body It is our past (sanchita) and present (parabdha) karma which keeps our consciousness compulsive in a sober state, and to exhaust that backlog of gross information yoga incorporates the purification of elements and prana. Purifying the mind is the easiest thing that we can do, through substances or through intense kriya yoga, but purifying the mind does not tend to grosser dimensions of energy and that is what we need to purify to free our consciousness from the grips of karma in our sober state. It isn't for no reason at all that Hatha yoga exists, or that deities which represent the sun and moon as Surya and various forms of the Divine Mother exist. If we want deep and permanent spiritual progress which isn't restricted to exaggerated states of mind and consciousness, and which isn't disconnected from the gross problems in the world and the dimensions through which they exist, yoga becomes important. You will see that teachers like Leo and others who focus on transcendence, nothingness and so on are mentally masturbating over those states, and that is because they are neglecting real spiritual science in the name of substances which stimulate the gross bodies and exaggerate the application of higher mind and consciousness, without addressing the origins of these impurities which are being transcended Coming to Shambhavi, the purpose of Shambhavi is to purify the pranic channels (Ida/moon and Pingala/sun) and to awaken the central spinal channel known as Sushumna. The potency of Shambhavi lies in the fact that it causes the etheric body (the subtlest energetic sheathe) to become the most dominant sheathe in our experience, which in turn causes all other gross manifestations of karma in the energetic, mental and physical body to exhaust over time. Mahamudra means a seal, and it is the sealing aspect of Shambhavi which locks the physiological changes which the practice makes in place. This grosser purification allows you to attain to meditativeness in a holistic and organic way, exhausting the karmic impurities in the energetic physiology so that your entire system becomes meditative Yoga from Isha is different from kriya yoga because it aims to achieve higher states of consciousness through permanent purification of the elements and energy body, instead of transcending and neglecting them. A lot of people in the world will not take Leo's path of transcending those dimensions through substances, or the Buddhist path of transcending those dimensions through awareness alone, and that is why attaining to awareness and consciousness through these methods is a more holistic and purificatory approach. In Isha's most advanced practice, Shakti Chalana Kriya, you can attain to a state of non-duality by purifying and taking charge of the body's five Pancha Vayus. The practice causes the Pancha Vayus to recede from the body as they would at death, which is therefore more physiologically accurate and purifying than death through any transcendental mode of consciousness. Shambhavi is very intense if you are initiated, and it is a kind of intensity which needs to be understood from the right perspective

"Reality is infinite nothingness capable of imagining conciousness" How can this Nothingness use imagination if it is not aware? Imagination presupposes an awareness first, can we really ever get behind conciousness? Really see it through, conciousness is existence without it there is literally non existence. Not even nothingness. The notion of imagination and nothingness can only arise if awareness is prior to it. How else could anything be? You cant reach outside of awareness and tell that it is nothingness outside of it and also say that it imagines awareness. Then something was present to observe that thing.

@Gesundheit Regardless, this is essentially an inescapable mechanic of consciousness. What I’ve said above is what I have so far been able to verify through both contemplation and experience. The solipsism question is generally framed around the potential consciousness of “others” which is why I included it so much in my response. Do you care to explain your methods for arriving at this particular nothingness conclusion? I’ve had realizations of nothingness, but they all occurred within consciousness. I’m a bit skeptical of how you can know, in an epistemically solid way, that there is something other than consciousness when you would have to use consciousness (in my current understanding at least) to arrive at this conclusion, but I’m open to learn if you’re interested in showing me the way. Feel free to shoot me a PM about this or simply reply here.

The mistake here is defining ultimate reality through consciousness as if consciousness is ultimate reality. It simply is not. Reality is not infinite consciousness. Reality is an infinite nothingness that is capable of imagining consciousness. Consciousness is just a tiny portion of infinity. Consciousness is actually not very different from thought, it's just a different manifestation/form of thoughts. Are you conscious of thoughts? Or are you thinking about consciousness? There's no difference. All of it is imagination couched within nothingness. So, you're left with not-knowing anything outside of imagination. And that's pretty much expected because, by definition, you know-not nothing.

So I have been contemplating the idea of infinity lately. This is the idea that the universe had no beginning and will have no end, that everything that exists has always existed ad infinitum, and the reason why I experience my current life narrative under the illusion of "time" as I do is because of "ego consciousness". e.g. it is a biological narrative constructed where the rules are those determined by the laws of physics. Attaining enlightenment is to see past this illusion, my attachment to myself, my attachment to time, my attachment to reality and my bodily sensations to see the "nothingness" of existence. To simply "be" in its purest form. Assuming that I have understood this correctly at this stage, my understanding on why reality is the way it is, is similar to the idea of the "10 dimensions theory" presented in string theory, that reality is comprised of every conceivable possibility in every single configuration, and that consciousness is omnipresent in all of this, and the only reason why you are not experiencing everything ad infinitum is because of being "Lost" in the idea that you are separate from everything. You can think of it as per this video where they explain the 10 dimensions (or 11 dimensions, I don't really care, you get the point). The point is that every single dimension is omnipresent and time is an illusion of the ego. Is there anyone else out there that conceptualizes reality like this? And if so, what are your theories on what happens when you die? That when the current ego consciousness you currently are experiencing will kind of "start over" or that you will move onto the next "possible material experience" e.g. another human, animal, or any other material possibility in the infinite cosmic mind? Also, is there anyone who has an idea why consciousness "needed to exist in the first place"? I understand that there is "something rather than nothing" because nothing is inherently instable, and that even according to quantum physics, if there is an empty vacuum of space, sub atomic particles will emerge from nowhere because there is nothing preventing them from not emerging - a metaphor I use for how I "emerged from nowhere" when I was born. The material world makes sense in this fashion, but why is awareness the apriori truth as well? I hope I am being clear. TL:DR Why did consciousness or awareness always exist? What happens when my current experience of reality ends?

Well, I do not necessarily agree with this "solipsism" way of thinking, I look (through my unenlightened lense) at the world, and see other people, other experiences of the world, and am wondering why it is the way that it is? Leo has said himself that we (you) and I are also Hitler, or the Cow on the way to the slaughterhouse and so even though I am right now experiencing my life through my lense, I must contemplate that I will also experience the Hitler timeline as well (and make all of his judgements and decisions, seeing the world through his eyes). I am wondering why I am right now I am experiencing it through MY lense, and what happens when I die? Because I get the impression some people believe that the ego will then die and I will have a huge DMT trip and merge with the selfless infinity, while others believe that the "I" will simply go to another form doing an eternal dance through all forms of experience. Sorry, it seems like a lot of people here are doing some categorical loops from "absolute, infinite wholeness" or "Nothingness" to relative humanistic terms like "the earth, commonality" "peace on earth" "Love thy neighbor" etc. It is hard to follow.

While I appreciate the replies (thank you), I don't think I was clear it what I was asking. I am not necessarily asking for advise on how to become enlightened, and I understand that there is no "need" for a theory. I get it. Clear your mind from all presuppositions and poof you are nothing and everything and there is no "you". But still, it is not like once you become enlightened you simply dissolve into nothingness and disappear. You still have to deal with the platitudes of daily life afterwards. And it is "ok" to have a conversation after all of this. Buddha did. Jesus did. Frank Yang still does. They still have "theories" of the universe and existence, and they don't just wave away all questions with the "shh, clear your mind, nothing exists".