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Why would it be impossible for God to create other minds? I’ve seen some people argue from a solipsistic perspective that God cannot truly create “others,” and can only create the illusion of others within himself. The reasoning seems to be that if God is the only absolute consciousness, then anything that exists would necessarily exist within God’s own being. If that’s the case, then other minds wouldn’t be genuinely independent, they would just be appearances in God’s consciousness. But I don’t see why this follows. If God is omnipotent, why would it be impossible for God to create genuinely distinct conscious agents? Even if they depend on God for their existence, that doesn’t seem to imply they are merely illusions within God. So my question is: what is the logical contradiction in God creating real “others”? Is the claim that it’s impossible actually justified, or is it just an assumption coming from a particular metaphysical view (like solipsism or nonduality)? Curious how people here think about this.

It isn't actually possible to 'delete' or erase the ego. I think it is foolish to think one can do this. All that happens is the we cling or identify to something new to replace the old that we think we erased. Spirituality becomes the new ground. Nonduality becomes the new ground to replace XXX. God-consciousness replaces nonduality etc etc ad infinitum. The 'ego-less' individuals I have met have been unconscious to the biggest and more detrimental egos I have ever encountered.

I've thought for awhile now that nonduality knows consciousness is everything but has no idea what consciousness IS.

Are you saying that after your 30 day 5-MeO retreat, during which God showed you how to love ever more deeply, and during which there was even a period when you were no longer able to close the singularity pulling you in during your sleep, you then went on to do another 90-day 5-MeO retreat?? And during that retreat, you did realize even more radical things, what you call something 'way beyond human nonduality'? Are you going to lay out these insights for us, or explain the implications of your realizations? After all, you seem to be the first human being to have accomplished something this radical.

Look I appreciate that, but thats not my main issue. I have some unhinged posts (not as unhinged as what you said, but still unhinged), but thats just one thing. A much bigger issue is being unhinged and then thinking that you were perfectly justified in being that unhinged and then combining that with using a plausible deniability tactic later when pushed on it and reframing things in a way thats dishonest given all the context of a given case. For instance you didnt ban flyboy because you had the wellbeing and the development of others in mind, you banned that person mainly because you were angry and you had an outburst like all people time to time. I don’t think Flyboy did anything particularly exceptional in that thread, that people who strongly disagree with you on spiritual matters don’t usually engage in. You had to edit that post to give a false explanation why you did what you did, and you also had to edit it because you included the sentence "If you try corrupt my teachings, I will fucking kill you". https://www.reddit.com/r/nonduality/comments/11xndwf/is_this_enlightenment/ You just layed down your rhetorical tactic in front of us in this thread - if an apology is given to strategically avoid drama and not because you genuinely think you engaged in a behavior that you shouldnt have engaged in - then that perfectly explains why you always fall back on a general tendency and it isnt just about your personality, but it is about what you genuinely believe in and about how you see the world and other people. Like you thinking more about "Look I dont give a fuck about any of this human drama shit, can we move the fuck on? Let me think about what behavior should I engage in and what I need to explicitly say and how I should pretend that im sorry, so that I can reach and realize my goals on this forum and avoid drama the most effective way" rather than having an internal dialogue driven by your conscience like "Where did I actually fuck up and did I actually engage in an unfair treatment, do I really think that I fucked up somewhere and if where and how and how can I change that?" As others have already layed down, you seem to have this general tendency in how you approach things and how you think about others and how you seem to look down on others. And the story that you tell about it how thats not the case and how you dont feel superior just simply doesnt match the general tendency that you outplay. You value intelligence a lot, probably the most, given you take it that intelligence is whats needed for understanding and in your model intelligence is just how much consciousness you have. And given that you take it that you had orders of magnitude higher consciousness than any other being in the Universe, you dont even look at yourself as a human anymore and you almost take it like you belong to a completely new and different species. There isnt any single instance where spiritual disagreement with others isn't automatically interpreted by you as them lacking intelligence rather than as them being equal and there being a genuine disagreement or as them offering something that you dont know or lack. Given the lack of behavior change (your natural tendency is to fall back on a particular behavior over and over again even if your skill to consciously overwrite it gets slightly better over time) and how hard it is for you to change that and how you need to exert consciously a lot of power to no want to look at forum users as just some incredibly stupid pigs and rats, it makes me think you do actually deep down think that everyone other than you is just like that. And the reason probably why you say you dont is to strategically and consciously avoid drama and to calm people down when they get offended by not just what you explicitly call them , but by your general treatment of them. For instance, you almost always end almost all disagreements with "You dont understand what im saying, im more awake than you, I wont explain this to you cause you wont get it" etc. All this stuff about behavior change feels more like about being a strategic tactic to do things more effectively to reach and actualize your goals and feels much less about you having a deep conscience driven desire to change because you genuinely think that you fucked up and you genuinely think and belive that other people are not below you. Improving your behavior feels more about improving your ability to actualize and reach your goals, than about having an internal desire to become a better person.

It's different in that a much deeper consciousness of God is reached. God is realized more and more deeply, to shocking levels. Such stunning levels of God are realized that nonduality looks like child's play. Nondualists cannot even imagine these degrees of God exist.

Leo claims to have gone beyond nonduality but can't explain HOW is awakening is different from nonduality. This can either trigger you, inspire you or just make you curious myself I'm curious

It's what he knows, he never got into the psychedelics and nonduality stuff. So for him God is his people and offering value to them and he doesn't see issue from learning from the deep wisdom of the bible while still having a more hedonistic sex life. Which I agree with. Also I double checked the watch appreciation on Gemini, if he has a Patek it'll probably double in value over the next 10 years. There aren't many investments that make more sense as both a networking tool and appreciating asset. Depending on the market you're buying in, it's a better asset than a house.

Yes. Infinity is literally unknowable. It is too profound to be known. If it could be known, it would be finite, which by definition it isn't. That's why mysticism is technically true. If it could be known then it wouldn't be mystical. All explanations are conceptual and finite. You need duality for explanation to exist. So nonduality cannot have an explanation. That's why the sage sits in silence. Stunned silence is the final answer.

Nonduality is obviously correct, but it shouldn't ignore the Divine Attributes discovered by western mysticism. also @Azrael deeply understood psychedelics and how to use them in service of real liberation . The GOAT.

Hey, ya'll, I need your help! I want to create a comprehensive list of video examples of prototypical stage Turquoise thinking. This is meant to be an educational tool for people learning about Spiral Dynamics. So towards that end, scour Youtube and find all the videos you can which exhibit stage Turquoise thinking. Try to find videos which are short and sweet. The more diversity we can display here, the better. Try to find examples from various cultures. We will create a mega-thread like this for every stage in the Spiral, from Red to Turquoise. But here, let's just focus on Turquoise. Each week I will start a new mega-thread topic for the next stage. Do not start a political debate in this thread! It is not our goal here to defend our personal political positions or to judge any stage, but simply to compile examples. Thanks for your help! I'm excited to see what kind of juicy stuff you dig up. Try to be selective with your choices. This can turn into a really cool list. Stage Turquoise Values: Consciousness Elevating mankind’s consciousness Truth Deep metaphysical insight Wisdom, the wisdom of nature Mysticism, spirituality, nonduality God, divinity Holism, integration, synthesis vs analysis Integrating all religions & science Left & right brain synthesis Honesty, transparency, authenticity Being vs knowing, doing, having Simplicity, flowing with nature Minimalist sustainable living Collaborative synergy Human wellness Healing at all levels: physical, emotional, spiritual Exploring altered states of consciousness Intuition Channeling: direct downloads from infinite intelligence Supernatural creativity Spiritual purification Awakening, transcendence, liberation Unconditional love, compassion for all Emotional mastery Presence, mindfulness Paradox Esoteric teachings Gratitude Unity Deeper & deeper levels of interconnectedness Selfless living Sacrifice self for greater consciousness Meditation, yoga, contemplation, self-inquiry Not-knowing Humility Spontaneity, playfulness, self-amusement The really big picture Stage Turquoise Examples: Sadhguru, Shunyamurti, Thomas Campbell, Yoda, David Hawkins, Ken Wilber, Shinzen Young, Deepak Chopra, Stan Grof, Osho, Mooji, Ramaji, Rupert Spira, Eckhart Tolle’s A New Earth, Yogananda, Martin Ball, Terence McKenna, Carl Jung, Sri Aurobindo, Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, Ervin Laszlo, David Loy, Alan Watts, Wim Hof, Matt Kahn, Dalai Lama, Sasha Shulgin, yoga, holotropic breathwork, The Holographic Universe, Akashic Records, noosphere, opening the 3rd eye, pineal gland, out of body experiences, samadhi experiences, siddhis, paranormal abilities, clairvoyants, channels, mediums, Bashar, Aleister Crowley, Rudolf Steiner, alternative healing systems, Maya, psychedelics, 5-MeO-DMT, StarTrek: The Q, Rupert Sheldrake’s morphogenetic fields, Dean Radin’s paranormal research, Gandhi’s ideas of pluralistic harmony, Gaia, biocentrism, Monroe Institute, Esalen Institute, transpersonal psychology, Jung’s collective unconscious, quantum field theory, sacred geometry, reincarnation, opening chakras, saints, sages, mystics, prophets, etc.

this is how the first blog post is coming so far. not quite sure where to go next but it's close I'm open to feedback , just please be kind lol : How I Used Spirituality to Avoid Development, and an Unconventional Take on Spiritual Bypassing There’s a difference between believing something profound and experiencing something profound. And there’s an even bigger difference between experiencing something profound and becoming someone profound. I began engaging with spiritual ideas at a young age. It began in Catholic school, I would go to church and feel moved, sometimes to tears. I felt as if I was making contact with something beyond myself, maybe God, or maybe just an indescribable something which transcended my material life and was simultaneously full of love. When I was 15, a friend of mine who was older and cooler than me introduced me to his new religion, called Wicca. He told me about magick (as opposed to magic) as a ritualistic method of advancing ones life by harnessing universal forces. He also introduced me to the power of psychedelic drugs, and astral projection, which is the ability to consciously eject the perceiving self from the physical body. This was simply the coolest thing I ever heard of. I didn’t join his religion but I began reading, and watching videos. I tried, and failed, to astral project until I got sick of trying. I learned about nonduality, the idea that the self (the ego) is an illusion and that transcending it leads to liberation, the end of suffering. While I was learning, I was also developing a not-so-subtle feeling of superiority. I was in high school and later college, and I believed that the people around me, even my friends, were ever so slightly lesser than me, that I was wiser and more enlightened than them because I had the secret knowledge and they did not. Underneath this was, ironically, a profound sense of inferiority. I had high-achieving friends with tangible, physical plans for their lives. They wanted to be lawyers, doctors, engineers and knew the steps to accomplish their goals. And something else was developing. This was an all-consuming need to discover the ultimate answers to life, the universe and everything with rigorous research, logic and debate. This was actually the beginning of my obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD), but that wasn’t separate from an authentic spiritual desire. Some days I would spend up to 8 or even 10 to 12 hours locked into an internal quest for certainty regarding my new spiritual knowledge. If I found someone on the internet who disagreed, often on YouTube, I would post take-downs in the comment section. When I got a notification that someone had responded to my comment, I felt terror. Had they proven me wrong and thus undermined my entire ikigai? Hours upon hours of philosophy, and a handful of weird experiences along the way led to, not enlightenment or truth, but anxiety and many, many sleepless nights. Something needed to change, not for some hypothetical goal called “enlightenment” but simply for a decent, non-neurotic relationship with life and my own mind. Before I go into the specifics of how I began to change, I want to address spiritual bypassing as a phenomenon. This is, as the title suggests, an unconventional take on spiritual bypassing. Most people who spiritually bypass don’t have Existential OCD, they aren’t spending 12 hours a day in YouTube metaphysics debates. But the core thread, of using spirituality to avoid real growth, is quite common. There are as many examples of spiritual bypassing as there are spiritual seekers, and almost every seeker does it or did it along their journey. Some other examples include the person in an unhappy relationship who uses positive psychology to gaslight themself into believing their relationship is actually helping them, or the psychedelic user who trips faster than integration can keep up, taking ever-higher doses in the hope of finally “arriving.” Surrender, Courage, Discipline, Compassion. For me, bypassing was about creating a sophisticated artifice of spiritual knowledge to avoid the discomfort of uncertainty, and with uncertainty, tangible action and development. For others it could be quite the opposite, using spiritual ideas or experiences to avoid the uncomfortable certainty life sometimes gives us. Either way there is an avoidance of reality going on, and being avoidant towards reality stalls personal development. This leads to the first virtue which has been changing my life: Surrender.

Non negotiables: 1 blog post a week 1 YouTube video a week reach out to two potential practice clients a week IMO spiral dynamics post yellow breaks down . Yellow is the peak of SD imo . Because what it calls turquoise is simply nonduality / awakening ☯️😊

These are not mutually exclusive. They may preach it from a level where they can take a Mahasamadhi anytime they feel like it, but ultimate liberation is not a lived daily experience, by choice. Which then makes you wonder why would they hang around at this dirty limited place full of suffering; perhaps there's something more important than peace and bliss. 'Somewhere else' is a distinction. Primitive nonduality can easily be turned around on itself like that. Nirvana can be had here and now, as per Buddha. As if. Death is as much in your direct experience as Jupiter. What, it's certain because everyone who ever lived died, you see people in Iran die, your pets and your parents? Weak. In your current direct experience you exist, else you wouldn't be talking to me. Existence is the only foundation you get and the only one you need, death is more fantasy. But I'm not telling you what to pursue, since in your current incarnation you're so focused on liberation and ending suffering, transcending death is probably right for you. Then perhaps after a Nayuta more karmic cycles you'll move on to cooler things. Believe it or not, I never cared much about survival and death, and that's not only because of the very favorable material conditions. In fact someone with such a spoiled childhood should by all accounts have turned out completely dysfunctional and helpless after it was all stripped away. But I constantly go around putting myself in dangerous, challenging, and painful situations, as it naturally feels like a game. There's still stakes, death can get me from behind at any time, but that's what makes it fun. Don't assume all spiritual paths are equal, they're only equal by virtue of their ultimate trajectory. And there's way higher paths than mine, such as selfless service to reality (as in the real deal like Jesus, not the nonsense they teach at Vipassana retreats) and beyond. In a way that's true. All absolutes can be relativized and reduced (an inalienable function of Authority), which can either be done from a place of ignorance or through a process of attempting to verify them via deconstruction; done correctly any deconstruction only reinforces them, that's why they're absolutes. The most intense is not Truth or Love, it's Sanctity. Verbose as I am, I have no words for it, while I could talk about the others all day long. It's infinitely more visceral than death or any emotion. And yet, Sanctity is a quality of Truth all the same, as Love and the rest. They're not even qualities per se, they literally are it. The more facets you awaken to the more you realize that God is an infinite self-luminous fractal of absolute Truth; all the additional aspects are revealed to be gems in this Indra's Net.

The beauty of nonduality is that it's available to anyone who does the work, whether they raise their consciousness a lot or not. I hate it but most people won't be able to raise their baseline by more than a few percentage points, even if they're highly disciplined with practices. But I still think a few percentage points is amazing and worth pursuing. Psychedelics can give us a glimpse of what genetic lottery winners like Ramana Maharshi are able to experience on a daily basis. Most awakened people are not Ramana's, by the way, not even close. That's why they live relatively normal lives and get involved in scandals. Peter Ralston might be approaching but not at Ramana level, a random blogger I found named Amara* might be too, I can't think of very many others. ****** I haven't gone through any of her training btw, this isn't an ad. Also she seems to have taken down the blogs where she went in depth on her state of consciousness and siddhis. *https://amarastrand.com/about/

I was like 50% green (love and light , meaningless career, hippie bum, passive vibes) and 50% yellow (obsessive map making, deep intellectual understanding of nonduality, colored by existential ocd doing metaphysics all day every day). Both of those led me to... not accomplishing very much. Oh and there was also plenty of shadow orange which made it so I wasn't okay with that, i couldn't fully accept doing nothing with my life, so I was unhappy. Haven't smoked weed in 3 days. Clearly it makes my Green passivity and my Yellow philosophical obsession worse. It's produced some genuine insights but also a lot of crap.

Hue hue hue oH nOES! My bOdY cOunT is HiGh! WomEN r HyPeRgamOus!!! MEn LoVE UncoNdiTiOnAlly, WoMeN LoVE OppoRtUniSticAlly!!! I better stop now >.> The funny thing is, red pill is meant to help men out dating. And most dudes don't even realize its red pill thinking behind half the popular podcasters these days. I don't actually see red pill advice actually helping men at all in practice... Regarding Ralston. Man, I dunno. Not enough info to go off from him. I would love to hear him rap on about romantic love more. But there's very little of his stuff out there on it. For me - just as there is spirituality, nonduality, unity and oneness - to see through that requires subject/object dissolution. Dissolving the barriers between subject and object - either by viewing self and all distinction as object object. Or seeing self in everything; self-self dissolution. All as one. A romantic partnership is about dissolving the barriers between two. Just as marriage isn't a unity of two; it is dissolving all that is between. But in romantic paring, your bias, your issues, your troubles, your bullshit - show up. It is a more accurate mirror because I cannot see myself while behind my eyes. There is more opportunity for healing and growth in romance. I have always felt a glass ceiling present when going true alone monk-mode. Monk-mode can be done with the right partner. Just my feelings on the matter

Same with Christianity. I didn't learn God is Love from Leo, I learned it from being raised Catholic. As a child I loved to cry and get emotional in church. Getting interested in very strict nonduality where emptiness and pure consciousness are emphasized above all else coincided with a closing of my heart. If you put a gun to my head and told me I had to pick between psychedelics and yoga (or between yoga and vipassana meditation), I'd pick yoga with no hesitation at all.

I listened to Osho fervently for years, I didn't find out he was a perv cultist until after I got tired of him, but here's the best tip I got from him, from his book of secrets - Do not move your eyes. If you keep them still, you can turn everything you see into one solid block. That's nonduality. It's amazing that nobody just lays it out this clearly if they already have it but here it is. I was walking in central park when I had my first "oh shit, awakening is real" experience. I was in a meditative-like trance from walking 5+ miles and when I stopped moving my eyes, I saw all of the reality in front of me as a horizontal flame of light, like an unsheathing of God's sword. The best way I can explain it is my field of view slightly increased, I was acutely aware of the edges/ blackness surrounding my visual field and the strange loop or NONLOCALITY of experience became obvious. The "turn it into a solid" comes from Fred Davis - sometimes it's difficult to distinguish noise from real truth with him but that was the most instantly awakening pointer I've ever heard, as well as the "keep your eyes still" tip. If you keep your eyes still constantly around other people you'll look like a weirdo, so make sure to just do it in your private/meditative time.

@Natasha Tori Maru informed consent vs uninformed. @Leo Gura I was actually impressed with Michael’s (Shilo - middle name) simplicity on the subject. You did really well, genuinely. Feedback: Purely going by what she said - Directly quoted - “You told us that you were going to explain three things. the ultimate structure of existence, the nature of love, and the nature of God.” Some interviews are more casual than others, however I would spend some time delineating all four subjects (inclusive of when she tripped you up on defining love, despite you, as best as I can infer, drawing a distinction between human love and universal love) at their connection point that makes moving between them seamless during an interview setting. I get that it was your first interview in a long while, but those subjects at their core, went only partially answered despite it being the stated conceptual drivers for the interview, as stated by Anastasia. I would ease back in future interviews on using terms like “truth psychopath”, it can sound edgy but on subjects like morality where people are either less informed and therefore a little dogmatic or people that have thought deeply on the subjects, it can be harder to reach people; which is kinda one of the points of the interview, to reach more people. I would also do the same for critiques of certain areas like academia as one example, the more refined your points on interviews like these the more of a win-win it becomes as they are both genuinely open minded warm people. Broad critiques are the strategic drawcard, but on the reel in to getting the actual catch, like getting an interview, it’s laid out mapped concretely. You’re handling very difficult subjects, and the people that want to listen, want to really listen, and like strapping a load of timber on a truck, the better you do it the safer your message is going to land safely home where people will be most receptive. You’re uniquely positioned as a conversant in the spiritual demography, capitalise on that devastatingly. Irrespectively, 1. You kept composure under sharp pushback. Anastasia and Michael have had some really ego fuelled guests. 2. Framed “relative vs absolute” to defuse literalism. 3. Flagged survival/incentives as bias generators (institutions, self, culture). 4. Validated boundaries (“leave abuse,” don’t tolerate harm) so nonduality isn’t pure passivity. That was an excellent distinction. 6. Prompted epistemic humility a number of times. Like distinguishing belief/speculation from direct insight. You really underscored distinction as a grounding concept being the foundation to your drive over your journey, this positions you as someone that could break the linings of many different kinds of demographics, making you a valuable guest in any interview the better you grt at this overtime. Good luck on the next interview, excellent overall, and we all loved the robe. Best wishes.

Well, from a nonduality perspective it IS just Maya. If your focus is Awakening then your should ignore it. What are you gonna do about it? You gonna stop pedophilia on this planet? There are a million children dying in Africa right now. What you gonna do about it? Chasing after pedophiles easily becomes a wild goose chase for the ego. You don't even know who the real pedophiles are except for a couple obvious ones who are already handled by police.

Yeah over on r/nonduality I see them practicing a lot of spiritual bypassing around the Epstein files. "This is just maya ignore it" type silliness. I'm also shocked by how many far right people are into this type of work, smh. Not that I'm against a far right person being interested in awakening, maybe if they take it seriously it'll cure them of being far right.

This reality and world we live in is intwined with and saturated in or made of consciousness and the object or world is an appearance of that consciousness = Non Duality There’s no such thing as nonduality because nonduality is not a thing. A thing appears in no thing. Only things are seen, not the seer. To see the seer, is to die to thingness. Not literal death as even death is an illusion, because unseen, doesn’t mean it’s not there/ here. It’s here. This is it.

Right, it's a nice mindfuck. Nothing is finite, but some infinities are more infinite than others, yet we still get Equality in the end. 'Cause there is no others, now we're back at rudimentary nonduality

Slurping up that nonduality juice from James all over the forum, I see. Rimjobs on all his posts